My idea on how colonization could work

[skyace65]

we all know the devs will have considered it and said if it was done it would be in an expansion pack. but i just wanted to get some of my ideas out on how I think it should be done.

how to set up a colony.

basically the way it would work is you would have to land 3 ships (or 1 ship with 3 command/crew modules) in the same area. if they are close enough an option appears to turn the 3 into a colony. the first level would just be a small base in the ground not that big. think, the top of an air traffic controll tower in the ground

how to increase the size

to increase the size of a colony you would need to land more ships near the colony. you would than get a certain amount of metal and fuel after cannibalizing a ship. that metal would than be used to buy upgrades or new buildings to the colony. and later on metal would be used to create spaceships directly from your colony. the fuel would be used later for refueling ships on a landing strip

my basic idea of how you advance

the whole system would work similar to the tech tree for science we have now. you move up the tree buying new buildings/upgrades for your colony with metal.

these are my basic ideas of buildings that would be bought and what they would do

basic colony(level1) what you start out with after cannibalizing your ships.

lights upgrade(level 2) your colony now has lights! so it's easier to land at it in the dark

rover vehicle bay(level 2) using some leftover metal you can now create a rover and drive out away from your colony

metal mine(level 3) a basic mine for metal, starts out slow but with more upgrades it becomes faster and faster at mining for metal

fuel refinery(level 3) can get fuel you need out of the ground

air strip(level 3) where space planes can land and refuel (will not include hanger)

colony housing(level4) gives you a constant stream of astronauts and workers for the colony(mine and refinery need workers assigned to them, more workers=faster production) it can be later upgraded to have a larger capacity

space plane hanger(level4) for the production of space planes to your air strip

colony VAB(level 4) for creating good old fashioned rockets

science facility(level 4) allows science to be turned in at a colony, and also generates a slow stream of science points from social experiments in the colony.

so that's basically my idea on how colonization should be done, any feedback would be great

[r4pt0r]

I'm not trying to be mean, but I think you're looking for this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Empires_V

forgive me if I'm wrong, but those ideas don't sound like KSP to me.

[crazyewok]

I'm not trying to be mean, but I think you're looking for this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Empires_V

forgive me if I'm wrong, but those ideas don't sound like KSP to me.

I think your looking for this: http://orbit.medphys.ucl.ac.uk/

KSP is not a pure simulation game. Its billed as getting the the Kerbal Civilisation tom move out into space! So yes colonisation sounds like KSP to me. KSP is meant to be a mix of things with a number of things to do.

You dont like colonisation? DONT DO IT! Play simulator style if you like.

Fact is if you want a pure simulator game pay orbiter.

Now stop forceing your ideas on game play on us. Its a open ended game so there room for alot of styles of gameplay.

[crazyewok]

PS OP Im pro colonisation.

At the very least the Devs should give us the tools to mod it in detail.

[minerman30]

I think your looking for this: http://orbit.medphys.ucl.ac.uk/

KSP is not a pure simulation game. Its billed as getting the the Kerbal Civilisation tom move out into space! So yes colonisation sounds like KSP to me. KSP is meant to be a mix of things with a number of things to do.

You dont like colonisation? DONT DO IT! Play simulator style if you like.

Fact is if you want a pure simulator game pay orbiter.

Now stop forceing your ideas on game play on us. Its a open ended game so there room for alot of styles of gameplay.

He never once forced his ideas on you. All he did was suggest a game that would work better for this idea. That response was completely unnecessary and unprovoked. Also, I think that the OP's suggestion doesn't fit the tone of the game, with set "levels" of bases and different tasks they do with none of the necessary equipment for it. The game is meant for you to build your own ships, not the game doing it for you.

Also, please use proper grammar next time.

[r4pt0r]

I think your looking for this: http://orbit.medphys.ucl.ac.uk/

KSP is not a pure simulation game. Its billed as getting the the Kerbal Civilisation tom move out into space! So yes colonisation sounds like KSP to me. KSP is meant to be a mix of things with a number of things to do.

You dont like colonisation? DONT DO IT! Play simulator style if you like.

Fact is if you want a pure simulator game pay orbiter.

Now stop forceing your ideas on game play on us. Its a open ended game so there room for alot of styles of gameplay.

hey its the "if you dont like space planes dont use them" guy. it should be noted im pro colonization too. ive landed a fair share of bases on extraplanetary bodies.

however, off planet construction just doesn't fit the bill for this game (as the two of us have argued in the past). same for orbital construction and off planet kerbal spawning.

i do wish you would stop forcing your ideas on gameplay on us.

[crazyewok]

Also, please use proper grammar next time.

Your opinion matters zero to me now for being that petty.

Sad as your last part about the levels ect may have had a point.

Edited February 3, 2014 by crazyewok

[crazyewok]

i do wish you would stop forcing your ideas on gameplay on us.

But im not. If a idea is made you dont like then being open ended you can take it and leave it and carry on playing pure simulation style if you so wish. You get the choice. If you block a feature simply because you dont like it? Well I dont get a choice and have the play the game your way or nothing. At the end of the day its a openended game, there room for all style of gameplay.

[FEichinger]

Calm down, everyone.

[r4pt0r]

But im not. If a idea is made you dont like then being open ended you can take it and leave it and carry on playing pure simulation style if you so wish. You get the choice. If you block a feature simply because you dont like it? Well I dont get a choice and have the play the game your way or nothing. At the end of the day its a openended game, there room for all style of gameplay.

right but this is KSP. it is about space exploration. it may have an economy in the future, but this shouldn't be "Sim City: Duna" . building and then landing bases on other planets should be the extent of it.

[Shna_na]

Guys: Stop arguing and discuss the original post. If you want to argue, do it somewhere else - preferably messaging each other.

Anyway, I'm pro-colonisation but think the levels idea is a bit off. In fact, this idea in general could use some work. Here's my opinion:

- Send a colonisation module (large, heavy part containing 4 Kerbals (fixed amount, no less) and some basic colony tools that will be stated later) to the body of your choice.

- Land this module and select "colonise".

- Send colonisation parts (under a new section of the VAB/SPH labelled 'colonisation') in storage bays (varying sizes - from tiny to large - and heights - again, from tiny to large, with radial options). In these bays, parts can be stored and transferred to a colony.

- The part that have been transferred to a colony can be used to make buildings. Oh, those basic parts? They will be used to make a farm in an enclosed, controlled environment (glass-shielded bubble?). Things like water, waste disposal etc. are built into the colonisation module.

- Rather than having set buildings, the player can chose from the selection of parts they brought what building to make. This is chosen by different modules that define a building - only one per building - that are large. Where's the customisation? A building needs more than just a module to work, and while I haven't figured out what other parts would be needed I'm sure the devs would be able to. I would suggest that some parts can improve speed or yield but only to a point.

- Some buildings can create small craft such as rovers and planes, but nothing large.

- Module can be used to carry out science experiments. This can be balanced however the devs wish, maybe with the ability to only do one every now and then, some that are ongoing (such as psychological studies) etc.

You like?

[Nobody]

Colonization could be a solution to the problems that caused resources to be pushed back. One of the problems sited was that the game play around them was boring and if it worked like Kethane does it would be for many(driving a rover around for a while to fill up tanks then process them for fuel).

This grind could be taken out of the process for those who don't want to do it by building a mining colony that is then landed on a resource node or near a cluster of them. Once established the colony gathers resources behind automatically over time with occasional missions to pick up a load or move the camp. A colony in this case would be a habitat module, processing plants, storage bins, and mining vehicles.

[Shna_na]

Colonization could be a solution to the problems that caused resources to be pushed back. One of the problems sited was that the game play around them was boring and if it worked like Kethane does it would be for many(driving a rover around for a while to fill up tanks then process them for fuel).

I agree, the grind is real and very grindy. Grinding kind of grinds my gears, as I'm sure it does for most people.

...building a mining colony that is then landed on a resource node or near a cluster of them. Once established the colony gathers resources behind automatically over time with occasional missions to pick up a load or move the camp. A colony in this case would be a habitat module, processing plants, storage bins, and mining vehicles.

^This. This could be a function of one of the building modules I was talking about, and having the option to let the grinding be done by your well trained, well paid Kerbals while still being massively involved in positioning and decision-making is a brilliant idea.

[TimMartland]

Hmm. I like colonisation, but this is kinda the wrong way to go about it. If it just measures ships, you could make one ship with about 500 probe cores radially on it. Also, I think colonies should be made from stuff you make, not stuff that autospawns.

[crazyewok]

right but this is KSP. it is about space exploration. it may have an economy in the future, but this shouldn't be "Sim City: Duna" . building and then landing bases on other planets should be the extent of it.

Why?

I would love to expand my kerbal civilasation to duna or some moons. Why should dumping a few bases be the extent of it? Why?

As you said its KSP. Its OPEN ENDED. So if you dont want to build a detailed colony fine great. DONT. But let those that do go ahead and do it. Why limt our gameplay? Im not limiting yours do what you like, Il do what I like. Stop forceing your idea of KSP on me. If you want restrictive gameplay go ahead and be restricted. I rather have some end game options. And before you claim Im forcing my idea on KSP on you im not. With a added feature if you dont like it you dont have to play it, if you deny and feature cause you dont like then I have to be denied it too, better to instead add it and let us decide on our own what we want to do in game.

At the very least allow a detailed colony system to be modded.

Edited February 3, 2014 by crazyewok

[kBob]

I'd think building a colony from parts makes sense. Ship the parts, assemble them as you like (within physics) much like you can build your own rocket etc. Of course there should be some reason for a colony to exist (well maybe the first one or two are just to prove it can be done to the powers that be). Maybe you could build a colony ship from a selection of colony ship parts which contains various "3d-printers" (i.e. magically provide the colony parts as you purchase them), a work area, workers etc. and tools to assemble and move things around and so on.

[skyace65]

right but this is KSP. it is about space exploration. it may have an economy in the future, but this shouldn't be "Sim City: Duna" . building and then landing bases on other planets should be the extent of it.

KSP is about running a space program. and part of running a space program includes landing on and colonizing other planets. what your suggesting with colonies being just hand placed buildings is more like sim city than what I'm suggesting with just standard fixed upgrades to the colony.

and if you don't want to launch from other planets, than just don't. nobody would be forcing you to.

[crazyewok]

and if you don't want to launch from other planets, than just don't. nobody would be forcing you to.

Exactly! People keep forgeting its OPEN ENDED. You dont like a feature you dont have to use it. I hate space planes but I dont go demanding no one else have them either!

[Rusty6899]

I think that bases could be improved by letting players construct ships and base components out of parts that they have already landed there, and fly them with fuel that you have brought there (no messing about with docking ports), although I am not totally against the idea of fuel being mined.

I think that gets the balance right between making the game into a colonisation strategy game (which I think would have a very flimsy gameplay structure) and the limited functionality of bases that we see now.

I would actually prefer that if mining was done, it would be more of a case of bringing valuable resources back to Kerbin for money, reputation and science. The challenge would be in producing crafts that could return significant amounts of resources back... So you can return from Eve, eh? Try it now with 10 tonnes of Blutonium in a storage tank.

This would also give you a significant reason to build bases on other planets, as you never know when a contract is going to come along asking you to bring back a load of Duna dirt. You could consider the parts you have already in your base and just take along what you need.

[Balto-the-Wolf-Dog]

Perhaps I'm missing something, but I can't bring myself to understand the position of those who are both anti-extrasolar and anti-colonization. Such a position severely limits KSP to being, well, basically what it is right now. Sure, the economy and science mechanics can be expanded upon, but ultimately progression is capped by the thorough exploration of the Kerbol system, which isn't actually that hard to do. There's always the option of more planets, but just how crowded do we plan on making this system ultimately? Just proper colonization could add a considerable amount to what we already have and the future Jovian planets planned, especially if the "no aliens" rule isn't take to mean "all of space is entirely dead" and is instead taken to mean "You won't run into any advanced civilizations that turn KSP into a combat game". The search for some form of life is and has been a major motivator in our own space programs and there's little reason to believe it shouldn't be similarly paramount for the Kerbals. A lot could be added to both spaceflight and surface operations if you went to another celestial body with the intent of looking for something, regardless of it's being bacteria, a certain kind of mineral, or whatever; as opposed to planting a flag and leaving, or sitting there for all eternity as warm memories of Kerbin fade into distant images and are ultimately forgotten. It seems to me that the primary point in colonization would be, thus, to look for things. I do support mining and the synthesis of fuel, as industrializing space is a very real concept as well, but I am of the opinion that the primary purpose of colonies should be to bring us something we don't already have, even if it's just a new type of fuel or something. If I had my way it would ultimately provide a means of synthesizing alcubierre warp technology to continue research on the interstellar scale, but as I understand such concepts have been officially dismissed despite their mathematical viability.

As for this method of colonization, it seems to me it cuts some corners around what colonies in KSP could really be. To date, KSP has been about building rockets, and I see little reason why it shouldn't also be about building colonies, but player involvement is key to that. I would favor a method that involved delivering specific components as payloads that may then be assembled on the surface in EVA, each having varying purposes such as habitation, life support, food provision, research, etc. Naturally these elements would be relatively heavy and bulky, making them difficult to launch, transfer, and land safely, and thus providing the game with a naturally occurring phenomenon akin to a difficulty curve without any hard-coded RPG elements like leveling.

Edited February 5, 2014 by Balto-the-Wolf-Dog

[Rusty6899]

Perhaps I'm missing something, but I can't bring myself to understand the position of those who are both anti-extrasolar and anti-colonization.

Personally, I don't think that anyone would describe themselves as "anti-colonisation". The biggest argument on the subject is how colonisation affects the mechanics of the game.

The OP is suggesting that the game should incorporate a dedicated system for colonising planets, whereas I, and a few others who have replied, feel that the game could be altered to allow players to benefit from a colonisation project, but it doesn't necessarily need to be specifically catered to. I like the ideas you have put forward about needing to deliver specific components to a space base, as it does provide an alternative to levelling, which I don't think is in the spirit of the game. I do think, however, that even with those features, it is still a case of colonising, for its own sake, which is all good and well, but I think that there should be reward system for people who want to play the game that way.

I think that the resources of money, science and reputation should be designated as three ways to "succeed" at the game. Succeed with science by performing experiments, reputation by exploring and money by colonising (and mining). This would mainly be implemented with the ordering of the technology tree so that players could choose their appropriate path (At the moment I would say the tech tree is generally split into rocketry, spaceplanes, science). I also think that the implementation of these methods of gameplay may be able to reduce the need for difficulty levels.

Newer players would benefit from being able to perform more numerous science experiments on Kerbin, Mun and Minmus, to achieve a reasonable amount of progression before they are ready to go interplanetary, intermediates would have the ability to explore the Kerbol system relatively early on to gain a good level of fame, experienced players would be looking to make return trips with valuable resources, which would make them money. All it requires then, it to have a slight incentive in terms of progress speed to choose the harder options and you have an effective yet diverse game mechanic.

[crazyewok]

Maybe the Devs should just impliment a very basic system but which could be devoped into more detail by mods?

[thereaverofdarkness]

KSP is a game of fluidity, of giving the power to the player with no right way to do anything. Instead of having a button you click to turn a base officially into a colony, howabout suggesting ways to make the base functionality more like that of a colony? Maybe bringing enough things to the base will allow it to become autonomous and the Kerbals there will expand it and reproduce to fill it up, and you come back years later to a city.

[Shna_na]

Maybe the Devs should just implement a very basic system but which could be developed into more detail by mods.

(corrected the English in the post)

I like the idea of colonisation being slowly introduced, starting as a basic system. In the other hand, relying on mods to complete the content is most definitely off the table for me and most others. Sure, I use mods from time to time, but they're inconsistent in terms of updates. They have a delay from when the actual game is updated, and some mods are discontinued. While I think it should be a mod-compatible feature, I don't think it should be a mod-only feature. The stock game should contain enough parts and features related to colonisation that make it complete without the need for mods.

[Deadweasel]

For the individual(s) arguing that a staged colonization model doesn't fit with the open-ended nature of the game... *cough*

Career Mode already enforces a tiered approach; why is it so hard to consider an activity OUTSIDE OF THE KSP to do something similar?

Personally, I like the idea because it gives us players yet another reason to bother with building permanent placements on other worlds. How cool would it be to set up a full-fledged colony on Laythe and make planets further out easier to reach as a kind of reward for putting forth the effort to build that colony?

How cool would it be to put forth that effort, and end up with another KSP, complete with VAB/SPH and runway, all the way out there? What about on Moho? How cool would it be to build and crew a ship that didn't require tons of tons of stages to get to orbit, or to build a fleet of varied ships whose designs weren't influenced solely by their ability to attain orbit from Kerbin? What about being able to build a full launch system that departed directly from Eve as a reward for putting in the hours of thought, trial and error that went into getting multiple flights of ships and equipment safely to the surface there first?

I'm really down with the concept, and it would make a really nice excuse for expanding the solar system even further. Not only would we have yet more places to explore, but there would be even more reason to bother going there in the first place, beyond the now meme-ified reason of "SCIENCE!"