[0.90] Kerbin Shuttle Orbiter System v4.13

[Westi29]

STS 123's objective is to deploy the KSO Eve Space Station Core Module and return to the KSC Runway.

The construction and deployment missions will be STS 123 through STS 130.

The PorkWorks Habitat Parts were rescaled to 0.5.
Most of the footage is shown in 4x speed for quick viewing.

STS 124 will deploy the Eve Station Science Bay.

[qnistNAMEERF]

You brought that one in hot.

[Kitworks]

You brought that one in hot.

Wow you weren't kidding. Did Jeb need to get to his kid's soccer practice or something?

[drtedastro]

When you 'gota go', you 'gota go!'......

[Westi29]

You brought that one in hot.

Gotta build it all before the Eve window closes! LOL

[GoldForest]

Hey Helldiver. Any plans to make an unmanned KSO like the proposed Shuttle-C?

http://andegraf.com/rockets/us_never.htm

I know the avionics pack gives you unmanned control over the shuttle, but it would be neat to have a unmanned version seen in the link.

[Sir_Tramalot]

I have an idea about the Shuttle names, have them changeable using the Firespitter plugin. Just an idea from a fan of your mod!

[AntiMatter001]

I have an idea about the Shuttle names, have them changeable using the Firespitter plugin. Just an idea from a fan of your mod!

if you read a few posts back you would of seen that people have already said this

[helldiver]

Hey Helldiver. Any plans to make an unmanned KSO like the proposed Shuttle-C?

http://andegraf.com/rockets/us_never.htm

I know the avionics pack gives you unmanned control over the shuttle, but it would be neat to have a unmanned version seen in the link.

I'm not interested in making realistic analogues of real world spacecraft or anything outside of the scope of the KSOS project. My main goal is to create content within that theme that I started and to expand what's available for KSP keeping with the art design set by Squad.

What I like about the style of this mod is that it doesn't resort to wear and tear, dirt, dents and other damage on the textures.

Correct. I could very easily make things realistic and add color filters and diffusers as well as bump up the contrast and desaturation. But when I did that in my color tests it just didn't fit with what Squad made. The first versions of the KSO and other parts were super realistic and you can see the Fire extinguisher in the first IVA pics I posted, using realistic labels. I took those off and went with simplistic designs in keeping with the "Sesame Street" type look and feel of KSP.

In the end that's the look I think KSP should stick with. Not only is creating content much easier, but lighter on their wallet. It's also easier for Modders to match. KSP also doesn't have all the shaders and fancy lighting other engines have so many of those extra embellishments just don't do it justice.

Previously on Proot's ravings (ALCOR thread):

I'm simply amazed by your modding level. Both of you: ALCOR and KSO projects are the awesomeness.

All hail If that part gonna be functional.

What part will be functional?

I have an idea about the Shuttle names, have them changeable using the Firespitter plugin. Just an idea from a fan of your mod!

That isn't possible until Squad fixes their memory management setup. I don't believe that is a priority for them. Unless someone can explain it better to me or update our current info. As I've said many times, I think that is critically important. Much more important than DLCs even which brings me to a discussion Naz and I have had several times.

What's the crux of KSP? Launching and landing on the various planetoids can only take you so far before the content runs out. You can only build so much with the stock components before you run out of things to do or get bored (and yes an argument can be made that it is just a sandbox toy). Hence it is my opinion that Mods fill the void in content that the game is missing. An important part of that is memory management to allow the inclusion of the various mods out there.

You could make an argument that it already uses enough memory and that modders should cut back on their texture sizes and usage. But then you won't have the quality you're seeing in my shots since the fastest, least memory using method would be no normal maps, 24bit diffuses (with no specular), and no emissives (giving you back about 60% of resources from the KSO mod alone).

That issue has really killed my enthusiasm for making mods for KSP. I don't think after Phase III, which includes the KSO Super 25, I'll be making anything else. Since I doubt KSP will be able to handle anything else (not the least of which will include all the whining on the thread about folks not able to run all their mods as well as the KSOS stuff).

Anyhow moving on to other things.

-All artwork is done, packed, and shipped off to Nazari who already started getting stuff in game.

-We will have a brief testing period to make sure everything works and is ready before I upload to the Spaceport.

-There will be an update (v1.18) before release.

-Phase II is currently going to be a part of Phase I (which will become v2.00) that may be subject to change. The issue has to do with several parts sharing textures from one another. Keeping it all together is a decision I'm making in an effort to reduce the amount of bugs as well as be able to more easily track down bugs reported on here since I'll know everyone has all the needed files. Not everyone is an expert at installing mods.

[AntiMatter001]

I'm not interested in making realistic analogues of real world spacecraft or anything outside of the scope of the KSOS project. My main goal is to create content within that theme that I started and to expand what's available for KSP keeping with the art design set by Squad.

Correct. I could very easily make things realistic and add color filters and diffusers as well as bump up the contrast and desaturation. But when I did that in my color tests it just didn't fit with what Squad made. The first versions of the KSO and other parts were super realistic and you can see the Fire extinguisher in the first IVA pics I posted, using realistic labels. I took those off and went with simplistic designs in keeping with the "Sesame Street" type look and feel of KSP.

In the end that's the look I think KSP should stick with. Not only is creating content much easier, but lighter on their wallet. It's also easier for Modders to match. KSP also doesn't have all the shaders and fancy lighting other engines have so many of those extra embellishments just don't do it justice.

What part will be functional?

That isn't possible until Squad fixes their memory management setup. I don't believe that is a priority for them. Unless someone can explain it better to me or update our current info. As I've said many times, I think that is critically important. Much more important than DLCs even which brings me to a discussion Naz and I have had several times.

What's the crux of KSP? Launching and landing on the various planetoids can only take you so far before the content runs out. You can only build so much with the stock components before you run out of things to do or get bored (and yes an argument can be made that it is just a sandbox toy). Hence it is my opinion that Mods fill the void in content that the game is missing. An important part of that is memory management to allow the inclusion of the various mods out there.

You could make an argument that it already uses enough memory and that modders should cut back on their texture sizes and usage. But then you won't have the quality you're seeing in my shots since the fastest, least memory using method would be no normal maps, 24bit diffuses (with no specular), and no emissives (giving you back about 60% of resources from the KSO mod alone).

That issue has really killed my enthusiasm for making mods for KSP. I don't think after Phase III, which includes the KSO Super 25, I'll be making anything else. Since I doubt KSP will be able to handle anything else (not the least of which will include all the whining on the thread about folks not able to run all their mods as well as the KSOS stuff).

Anyhow moving on to other things.

-All artwork is done, packed, and shipped off to Nazari who already started getting stuff in game.

-We will have a brief testing period to make sure everything works and is ready before I upload to the Spaceport.

-There will be an update (v1.18) before release.

-Phase II is currently going to be a part of Phase I (which will become v2.00) that may be subject to change. The issue has to do with several parts sharing textures from one another. Keeping it all together is a decision I'm making in an effort to reduce the amount of bugs as well as be able to more easily track down bugs reported on here since I'll know everyone has all the needed files. Not everyone is an expert at installing mods.

i still can't believe your doing this for free... it almost feels like i'm stealing something very valuble

[GoldForest]

I'm not interested in making realistic analogues of real world spacecraft or anything outside of the scope of the KSOS project. My main goal is to create content within that theme that I started and to expand what's available for KSP keeping with the art design set by Squad.

I'm not talking about making real world space craft. That was just a reference picture. I just wanted to know if we could expect any unmanned craft in the future, that can be unmanned without the crew cabin. An empty crew cabin on an unmanned craft can be an eye sore.

[AntiMatter001]

I'm not interested in making realistic analogues of real world spacecraft or anything outside of the scope of the KSOS project. My main goal is to create content within that theme that I started and to expand what's available for KSP keeping with the art design set by Squad.

I'm not talking about making real world space craft. That was just a reference picture. I just wanted to know if we could expect any unmanned craft in the future, that can be unmanned without the crew cabin. An empty crew cabin on an unmanned craft can be an eye sore.

why not just edit the .cfg and remove the windows...

...

...

...

(yeah i see your point now...)

[GoldForest]

why not just edit the .cfg and remove the windows...

...

...

...

(yeah i see your point now...)

My texture skins are... well... I have none...

Also, an unmanned shuttle's crew cabin can be replaced with an extra fuel tank, or electrical supply, mono too. AND!!! The thing every one loves about unmanned craft, no risk of losing Jebidiah!... okay, and the others...

Edited March 10, 2014 by GoldForest

[AntiMatter001]

My texture skins are... well... I have none...

Also, an unmanned shuttle's crew cabin can be replaced with an extra fuel tank, or electrical supply, mono too. AND!!! The thing every one loves about unmanned craft, no risk of losing Jebidiah!... okay, and the others...

lol i'm the exact same way. when jeb dies i'm like "nyooooooo jeb!" but when bill,bob, or any one else dies i'm like "your replacable"

[GoldForest]

lol i'm the exact same way. when jeb dies i'm like "nyooooooo jeb!" but when bill,bob, or any one else dies i'm like "your replacable"

lol, Whenever Jeb dies on a sandbox mode play through, and I accidently don't go back to launch or VAB/SPH, I just go edit the persistent file and get him back. I mean! I send a medical crew to his last know location, retrieve his body and revive him!

[AntiMatter001]

XD that's what i do in career when i forget to swap out the crew and jeb goes "boom" (i have crew manifest so it's easy)

[qnistNAMEERF]

That issue has really killed my enthusiasm for making mods for KSP. I don't think after Phase III, which includes the KSO Super 25, I'll be making anything else. Since I doubt KSP will be able to handle anything else (not the least of which will include all the whining on the thread about folks not able to run all their mods as well as the KSOS stuff).

I think the problem here is that some folks are really running this game on hardware it really can't be run on. KSP is still very much in development itself and with all the wacky physics calculations it has to perform and the very poor memory management setup it currently has, it really needs a decent rig to play smoothly on. I get it, people can't afford decent gaming computers or prefer their laptops with integrated graphics cards. But remember it's not the mod community's fault. They didn't develop KSP with it's current flaws. So they really need to speak up and voice their frustrations to Squad if they expect them to go anywhere. Such quacking at the mod authors can be very grating and it saddens me that you may not continue after phase III. I have very much enjoyed following the development and release of this mod, watching it grow and mature. I believe you are very talented, you seem to really enjoy this game as much as we do, and hope that you may change your mind in the future. But I get it if you decide not to. Either way, I look forward to playing with phase II and thank you for your dedication and hard work. You too, Nazari.

[Jethro Bodine]

First and foremost, love, love, love this mod! It's renewed my interest in KSP a thousandfold, and clearly the product of countless hours of dedication. Thank you so much!

Now if I may offer some feedback, please bear in mind it should in no way minimize my respect and appreciation for your amazing contribution. Also bear in mind I'm a relative noob, and these may be issues between my chair and keyboard, not representative of the mod itself.

Firstly, the RPM Blue camera arcs. These persist (in the VAB) on *all* my Clamp-O-Tron Jr. docking ports, and *grossly* slow down performance, frequently resulting in crashes. Yes, I can manually right-click on them to access the tweakable menu to disable the arc(s), but they return the moment I move a docking port, reload, or try to place an additional/new port. Also, it's perhaps worth noting there are two duplicate menu items in the tweakable menu to disable this feature (I'm presuming that's not intentional?). Ultimately I had to remove all RPM-related .dll files from my GameData folder to resolve this issue (which is a shame, as the integration into the ISA is really lovely). Also worth noting, the RPM files that were included with KSO are the *only* RPM files I've ever installed (so conflicts with other, outdated .dll files shouldn't be an issue here). If this is an issue I can resolve myself with a ModuleManager .cfg file or something, please let me know!

Secondly, the OA-850 Liquid Fuel Boosters. These look/sound great and with one relatively minor exception, perform great. The exception being they won't "auto-stage" either with MechJeb or dtobi's Small Parts auto-staging device. I'll have to do more extensive testing, but I believe the issue might be related to onion staging or specifically the Thrustmax External Fuel Tank itself. For the time being, I'm using dtobi's altimeter device to force them to stage at ~15km (which works fine).

Lastly, and with full understanding KSO "does not natively support MechJeb" and that "compatibility was never intended" , in the interest of trying to be helpful, I'd like to bring to light another small quirk. Performing automated maneuvers works great... for about 90% of the maneuver execution. It's in the final 10% where things get a bit screwy. Specifically, the orbiter appears to lose its guidance as if S.A.S. was abruptly disabled (it's like it's "oversteering" at the tail end of the operation). Mind you, this is in orbit-outside the influence of atmospheric drag-with only the Omnimax 40Ts engaged (the Thrustmax 200s perform markedly worse, as to be expected). I've tried disabling/locking the gimbals as well as the trim, but that only seems to exacerbate the issue. I'm presuming this may have something to do with the engines being slightly offset from the center of mass? I really have no idea. It's quite strange that it only affects such a small portion, and not the whole. My work-around is to simply disengage/re-engage the maneuver, or just ride it out and hope I don't expend too much deltaV or go too far off the intended course. It's not game breaking, just slightly frustrating when trying to perform complex operations like rendezvous.

Anyhow, I hope that was helpful. Again, I can't thank you enough for this wonderful addition to my KSP experience. And I'm really, really looking forward to the next phases (drooling @ those screen captures)!

[fusty]

I'm not interested in making realistic analogues of real world spacecraft or anything outside of the scope of the KSOS project. My main goal is to create content within that theme that I started and to expand what's available for KSP keeping with the art design set by Squad.

Keep it up man, do you style. This is your thing and it's coming along beautifully.

Plus, if people REALLY want this stuff, we'll make it ourselves. Just like you did with this pack.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and Squad, Hire this man! He's thinking big and like a game dev about game concepts that will let KSP flourish.

[Starwaster]

That isn't possible until Squad fixes their memory management setup. I don't believe that is a priority for them. Unless someone can explain it better to me or update our current info. As I've said many times, I think that is critically important. Much more important than DLCs even which brings me to a discussion Naz and I have had several times.

If your objection is having multiple KSO texture just for name switching, have you considered taking the FlagDecal approach? Setup the shuttle name on a separate quad and then you only need separate smaller textures just for the name instead of separate full KSO texture sheets that only changed the name.

lol, Whenever Jeb dies on a sandbox mode play through, and I accidently don't go back to launch or VAB/SPH, I just go edit the persistent file and get him back. I mean! I send a medical crew to his last know location, retrieve his body and revive him!

Have you ever tried NOT doing that? Unless you 1) hacked your persistence file or 2) used Crew Manifest to make death permanent, it isn't. They'll be listed as 'missing in action' and turn up a few hours/days later. As though nothing had happened.

[CaptRobau]

Firstly, the RPM Blue camera arcs. These persist (in the VAB) on *all* my Clamp-O-Tron Jr. docking ports, and *grossly* slow down performance, frequently resulting in crashes. Yes, I can manually right-click on them to access the tweakable menu to disable the arc(s), but they return the moment I move a docking port, reload, or try to place an additional/new port. Also, it's perhaps worth noting there are two duplicate menu items in the tweakable menu to disable this feature (I'm presuming that's not intentional?). Ultimately I had to remove all RPM-related .dll files from my GameData folder to resolve this issue (which is a shame, as the integration into the ISA is really lovely). Also worth noting, the RPM files that were included with KSO are the *only* RPM files I've ever installed (so conflicts with other, outdated .dll files shouldn't be an issue here). If this is an issue I can resolve myself with a ModuleManager .cfg file or something, please let me know!

The blue camera arcs were removed in the latest version: 1.13. Looks like you have an outdated version installed, or removed the old one in an incorrect way before installing 1.13.

[shadowsutekh]

That issue has really killed my enthusiasm for making mods for KSP. I don't think after Phase III, which includes the KSO Super 25, I'll be making anything else. Since I doubt KSP will be able to handle anything else (not the least of which will include all the whining on the thread about folks not able to run all their mods as well as the KSOS stuff).

Sorry to hear that I really enjoy seeing the things you've come up with. I hope that the memory stuff gets fixed sooner than later myself. Long term though, how long does that mean you'll continue to support and update/improve your (awesome) shuttle?

[AntiMatter001]

Sorry to hear that I really enjoy seeing the things you've come up with. I hope that the memory stuff gets fixed sooner than later myself. Long term though, how long does that mean you'll continue to support and update/improve your (awesome) shuttle?

there could be a change in ksp later on... so here's hoping it's soon because i love this mod and helldriver is a great artist.

[helldiver]

I think the problem here is that some folks are really running this game on hardware it really can't be run on.

This right here. It's really a pain to see all the work go into an IVA only to have it blurred to nothing by a texture compression mod. So what's the point?

It takes 10-12 hours sometimes more to get all those little details in with each button. That's not including shadow baking cleanup and such. Then to have it blurred completely essentially killing the work that went into it. Follow me? Which makes me wonder why someone would download KSOS in the first place if they're going to compress it, but that's beside the point.

Sorry to hear that I really enjoy seeing the things you've come up with. I hope that the memory stuff gets fixed sooner than later myself. Long term though, how long does that mean you'll continue to support and update/improve your (awesome) shuttle?

As long as it takes to get all bugs and issues fixed . To give you a rough idea, a mod I made in 2009, was still getting updates and support in 2013. With KSP, that's really something that depends on several factors. If Squad changes something internally that our plugins rely on, that would fall on Nazari. Same goes for anything that relies on internal Unity related changes. Art related stuff I can update and fix no problem as well as CFG's or any text configuration files.

there could be a change in ksp later on... so here's hoping it's soon because i love this mod and helldriver is a great artist.

Unrelated to KSP, I've heard such issues can't be fixed without an engine rewrite. Again, I'm no programmer so take what I say with a grain of salt.

-I'm almost convinced of redoing the KSO's IVA. (And if Naz is reading, no none of the transforms or pivots will change, it will be drag and drop friendly ). It would use a lot of the techniques used in the space station module IVAs such as independent panels that are shared and use a larger texture space then the interior shell.

-The KSO Super 25 (the KSO's 2.5m big brother) will incorporate everything learned and fixed up to this point.

-If memory handling and file loading gets improved or fixed, than we could look forward to a lot more content beyond Phase III. Just because I won't make new things past phase III, doesn't mean we can't go back in to the previous phases and make changes to free up resources to maybe squeeze in Phase IV ;D

Edited March 10, 2014 by helldiver

[Sochin]

Which makes me wonder why someone would download KSOS in the first place if they're going to compress it, but that's beside the point.

The biggest reason is that its a shuttle that actually works well.