[0.90] Kerbin Shuttle Orbiter System v4.13

[Jethro Bodine]

So after updating to KSO 2.07 I found an issue, after much troubleshooting, with the ScanSatRPM folder interfering with Blizzy's toolbar mod and Sarbain's Optional MechJeb modules. Having these installed together prevented any MechJeb window from appearing. Anyone else run into this? Deleting the ScanSatRPM folder fixed the issue.

No, but after updating to 2.07, I lost all RPM functionality in all KSO modules - from the shuttle's cabin to all the station parts. Initially, I only replaced the KSO folder (deleted the v2061 KSO folder and copied over v207). I figured I musta done something wrong, so I then deleted everything from v2061 in my gamedata directory and did a fresh install of v207. Still no banana. It's like RPM simply isn't installed.

However, RasterPropMonitor still works just fine and dandy on other (non-KSO) vessels, so I'm guessing it's something in v207's KSO folder. Haven't had a chance yet to look under the hood to see if I could figure it out myself, but I'll try later. Not sure if it's relevant (I kinda doubt it) but the only thing I've installed since v207 is Nazari's latest HotRockets addon (release 5).

In other news, the OA-850 boosters now auto-stage correctly with MechJeb!

[helldiver]

No, but after updating to 2.07, I lost all RPM functionality in all KSO modules - from the shuttle's cabin to all the station parts. Initially, I only replaced the KSO folder (deleted the v2061 KSO folder and copied over v207). I figured I musta done something wrong, so I then deleted everything from v2061 in my gamedata directory and did a fresh install of v207. Still no banana. It's like RPM simply isn't installed.

However, RasterPropMonitor still works just fine and dandy on other (non-KSO) vessels, so I'm guessing it's something in v207's KSO folder. Haven't had a chance yet to look under the hood to see if I could figure it out myself, but I'll try later. Not sure if it's relevant (I kinda doubt it) but the only thing I've installed since v207 is Nazari's latest HotRockets addon (release 5).

In other news, the OA-850 boosters now auto-stage correctly with MechJeb!

We didn't change anything in RPM. You're getting the same folder since 2.04 pretty much. The Laptop changes was in the collider models and on laptops only which use their own configs.

Odds are you may be suffering from lights out. Which is strange since 2.07 didn't change any values like 2.05 to 2.06 did.

Run a test. Build a dummy space station in the SPH and put it on the runway. Attach a KSO cockpit, SST and all the other modules to it fill it with kerbals and test it. If it works, then it means your persistence file got fudged and active spacecraft using KSOS are fudged.

[Jethro Bodine]

-Loved the idea originally and the KSO's robotic arm was supposed to work like this. And then my dreams were dashed when Nazari informed me that without a Plugin, you can't animate decouplers. In other words, although the 3D visual model will rotate outwards, your payload will still be coupled in the same spot you put it in the VAB.

-You will need the Robotics plugin to do that sort of thing. I've entertained the idea of putting together a KSO specific robotic arm, "Kanadarm", but it would require clearance from that mod's team. Like the AR-KSO10 AP system, you'd have to have that mod installed for it to function.

It doesn't feel right asking for anything more than you've already given us... but man, if you could add a functioning "Kanadarm" - holy mackerel! Especially with Squad's upcoming ARM "claw" - wow, the possibilities!

[Jethro Bodine]

Run a test. Build a dummy space station in the SPH and put it on the runway. Attach a KSO cockpit, SST and all the other modules to it fill it with kerbals and test it. If it works, then it means your persistence file got fudged and active spacecraft using KSOS are fudged.

I'll give it a whirl later this evening and post my results. Thanks helldiver!

[Westi29]

Cost is a fake number that isn't used. In other words ignore it. And by ridiculous cost you mean, "Ridiculous cost in the Real World with government contractor beaurocracies and political interest lobbying?" then yes.. that doesn't apply to Fantasy Kerbal Land at all. Think about it... do you honestly think a realistic space program would allow that many accidents, ignore safety standards, insurance, and everything else that's involved? If that were true the entire KSP would balloon up to be more expensive than their entire military budget.

When the Cost number is finally relevant, and if you've kept track of the descriptions of each KSO part (I don't expect you to since you said you don't use it?), the KSO Consortium (Murika SuperStellar, Orbitz Aerospace, Kerbal Materials Corp., and so on) made the KSO and its parts to be competitive with any other system. Think of them as a private venture similar to Scaled Composites. Their analogs being:

Murika Superstellar: Boeing

Orbitz Aerospace: BAE Aerospace

Kerbal Materials Corp: Scaled Composites or Textron

VEG Design Group: General Dynamics or Lockheed Martin

For its weight, size, cargo capacity the whole purpose of the KSO consortium was to design a lifter that was cheaper but that at the same time allowed for an orbiter that could safely land at any prepared runway, used civilian navigational systems (hence the various nav radios on the side panels), and pretty much handled like a true aircraft once in the proper atmospheric pressure. The KSO does not handle like a NASA Shuttle or Buran orbiter at all. It handles like a glider and flies and lands similar to a 737 as opposed to a falling rock. Westi29 rated its stall speed at about 75 mph, landing speeds are about 90 to 100mph with 120mph being more common.

Then we have the issue of program costs versus real world stuff. Obviously the startup cost for any Kerbin nation or Corporation (the KSO was designed to be a commercial vehicle, not just a publicly funded vehicle) will be a lot more expensive than a similar disposable conventional rocket program (1.2 Billion US compared to 100-250 Million for traditional capsule return system). That means that for 1.2 Billion (plus options) any Kerbin nation, Corporation, or shoot... very rich individual could own their very own KSO with lifter (support systems, maintenance program sold separately). Those are my figures for Kerbal land, not real world figures.

And then we have construction and reusability. The KSO uses kerbon-graphite monocoque construction on top of titanite or alium frames. Its wings use kyrofoam cores with polykerbon honeycomb sheeting (similar to an F-16's control surfaces). Hence they are super light, but very strong. Its heat shield uses an advanced aerogel that requires very little maintenance if any (replacement of some of the tiles begins at around the third launch). Again keep in mind size of Kerbin, atmospheric density, and the size of the KSO. Also, the rest of the KSO's internal components are off the shelf, significantly reducing its cost further. Need to replace its tires? Any aviation grade radials of the same size will do. Need to replace an actuator? Same thing. Servos? Same thing. It's multi-function displays break? Order a new one from a variety of companies (Anatid Robotics, RPM Industries, etcetera).

The lifter itself is currently disposable, but I'm sure various programs or companies have their own lifter version that may be reusable. Keep in mind that the KSO can be purchased standalone (800 million for a Block 7) and you can provide your own lift vehicle.

I haven't worked out what the launch cost is compared to the real world. I've figured given the entire program, you'd be looking at 100million for your first launches and slowly that price would reduce down to about 40-50 million per launch.

Anyhow, just some fluff!

Yes, that KSO you're flying costs about 800 million US.. Think about that next time you roll it around on the ground....

[Unikraken]

A robotic arm for KSOS would be amazing. I'm fantasizing about it now.

[LawnDartLeo]

It doesn't feel right asking for anything more than you've already given us... but man, if you could add a functioning "Kanadarm" - holy mackerel! Especially with Squad's upcoming ARM "claw" - wow, the possibilities!

Ill second this but with a bit more input that might make it an easier proposition (... says the guy not doing the modelling and implementation).

There is a mod for KSP (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/37680-DROMOMAN-modular-arm-parts-for-Damned-Infernal-Robotics) that already provides for arms, problem is it doesn't have components that make for a really good Kanada arm for the KSO shuttle. I've used it and the Kerbal attachment system (http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/0-18-2-kas-kerbal-attachment-system-v0-1/) and Infernal Robotics (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/37707-0-23-Techtree-Magic-Smoke-Industries-Parts-Infernal-Robotics-0-12-(1-30-2014)) to make arms but they end up being very large and gangly.

The "guts" are there, appropriately scaled parts seem to be all that is really needed.

This in no way is meant to detract from the above mentioned mods, they are great and I recommend them without reservation.

[kiwiak]

Ill second this but with a bit more input that might make it an easier proposition (... says the guy not doing the modelling and implementation).

There is a mod for KSP (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/37680-DROMOMAN-modular-arm-parts-for-Damned-Infernal-Robotics) that already provides for arms, problem is it doesn't have components that make for a really good Kanada arm for the KSO shuttle. I've used it and the Kerbal attachment system (http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/0-18-2-kas-kerbal-attachment-system-v0-1/) and Infernal Robotics (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/37707-0-23-Techtree-Magic-Smoke-Industries-Parts-Infernal-Robotics-0-12-(1-30-2014)) to make arms but they end up being very large and gangly.

The "guts" are there, appropriately scaled parts seem to be all that is really needed.

This in no way is meant to detract from the above mentioned mods, they are great and I recommend them without reservation.

you can use this

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/37680-DROMOMAN-modular-arm-parts-for-Damned-Infernal-Robotics

[The Space Man]

What texture do I have to edit to change the colour of the goo lights?

[SaSquatch]

I've been alternating between using the auxiliary fuel module alone, and said module, the standard docking adapter, and one port. It doesn't seem to make much of a difference either way.

I guess I'm just not sure what cargo you're trying to lift.

[MechieMan21]

Yes, I have but after delete them and reinstalled KSO all worked good for me.

Yea I tried that. I even used a fresh install of KSP and only added KSO 2.07, MechJeb (latest dev build), and sarbain's modules. Same issue with MechJeb not showing up in the toolbar until I deleted the ScanSatRPM folder. *shrugs*

[helldiver]

What texture do I have to edit to change the colour of the goo lights?

None I think it's internal or programmed (the emissive is grey).

Goo Lights are going to get an open license once I get around to separating them from the docking module texture. They will become an alternate download.

[LawnDartLeo]

Kiwi.... read my post man!!!

I clearly stated the use of that and other relevant mods to make a Kanada arm. What we need are some parts that fit the picture a bit better with respect to the KSOS.

In the end, I think people will be disappointed by the instability of manipulators. This is not a short coming of any of the above mods but of the game, itself.

[HeadHunter67]

I remember following this mod for months while it was in development and eagerly looking forward to it. I stopped playing KSP before 0.23 released because of reasons... but this mod has drawn me back in! I love the Kerbal look of the orbiter's proportions. And it launches and flies very well... though I still can't land anything remotely resembling an aircraft, let alone from orbit. To make matters worse, it seems I've forgotten how to fly anything in the last few months!

Is there a quick list of the hotkey actions somewhere? People are talking about shutting off the main engines and using the OMS but I don't know how. Getting in there and changing each with the context menus is possible but there has got to be a simpler way.

[helldiver]

I remember following this mod for months while it was in development and eagerly looking forward to it. I stopped playing KSP before 0.23 released because of reasons... but this mod has drawn me back in! I love the Kerbal look of the orbiter's proportions. And it launches and flies very well... though I still can't land anything remotely resembling an aircraft, let alone from orbit. To make matters worse, it seems I've forgotten how to fly anything in the last few months!

Is there a quick list of the hotkey actions somewhere? People are talking about shutting off the main engines and using the OMS but I don't know how. Getting in there and changing each with the context menus is possible but there has got to be a simpler way.

Uh...

Check the OP, I posted videos on page two and the download even includes a quick start guide. Read the craft files as they show you all the various action group assignments.

In the VAB make sure the OMS engines have their Pitch Trim set to 14 and Speed is 100. The rest is in the guide or you can watch the launch and descent video guides on the second post right after the OP.

[HeadHunter67]

Thanks. I watched the videos and read the guide (I have actually printed it out), what I was asking is if anyone had the Action Groups listed somewhere - I don't know how one would find the action groups among the craft file - I'm not a programmer so maybe it makes sense to those who know how to read all that. I had hoped to find that info in the guide but it seems to be absent.

I just hoped to find a quick list somewhere, I guess I'll have to look at the action groups in the VAB and write it all down. Thanks for making a great mod.

[EDIT: OK, I just noticed that the hotkeys were added in the craft file on the 2.07 update. I was using 2.05]

Also, for MJ users - where are you mounting the case? I know MJ is fussy about orientation and I can't see where it ought to go except in the cargo bay where the payload would normally mount (and even then, it doesn't seem to want to fit flush). Would I be better off just adding MJ functionality to the avionics hinged nosecone?

Edited March 26, 2014 by HeadHunter67

[Jethro Bodine]

@helldiver

I dun goofed. On closer inspection, I realized I had the "Hyomoto" folder installed twice - once in the root, GameData directory, and a 2nd copy in the KSO/RPM folder. I'm guessing the one in GameData was a legacy from previous installs of KSO (prior to it being relocated to KSO/RPM). Removed it and everything works as expected. My bad, sorry for any needless anxiety I may have caused.

[Westi29]

Here is an album I made of the Eve Space Station Construction Missions I did with the KSO!

[Martin_Baker]

Also, for MJ users - where are you mounting the case? I know MJ is fussy about orientation and I can't see where it ought to go except in the cargo bay where the payload would normally mount (and even then, it doesn't seem to want to fit flush). Would I be better off just adding MJ functionality to the avionics hinged nosecone?

Did you download the new MJ case (link in the OP on page 1 of this thread). Other than that, I've never experienced issues with MJ resulting from the orientation it is mounted in. Anyhow, download the new MJ case, it is really tiny, mounts on the sidewall of the cargo bay (I've had no issues mounting it there). It is really discrete and you barely notice it is there.

Hope this helps.

[qnistNAMEERF]

Helldiver: some time in a future phase would you consider putting resources in the Octostrut both for space stations and satellites?

An example of what I was thinking of:

Behold - The Octostrut Resource Satellite!

[helldiver]

Also, for MJ users - where are you mounting the case? I know MJ is fussy about orientation and I can't see where it ought to go except in the cargo bay where the payload would normally mount (and even then, it doesn't seem to want to fit flush). Would I be better off just adding MJ functionality to the avionics hinged nosecone?

At Martin said, you can put the AR-KSO10 AP (found in the alternate downloads on the next post after the OP) anywhere. Cargo bay, on the wings, where ever you wish for MJ2. Doesn't have to be centerline or balanced or anything, it's simply a computer.

Helldiver: some time in a future phase would you consider putting resources in the Octostrut both for space stations and satellites?

An example of what I was thinking of:

http://i.imgur.com/FlZ0f4i.png

Behold - The Octostrut Resource Satellite!

Gorgeous idea!

Hrm, definitely on the next satellite and parts update. I've discovered how many times I'm luggin up KSOAFMs and extra fuel. Never thought the SST would be blowing through mono so quickly.

[HeadHunter67]

At Martin said, you can put the AR-KSO10 AP (found in the alternate downloads on the next post after the OP) anywhere. Cargo bay, on the wings, where ever you wish for MJ2. Doesn't have to be centerline or balanced or anything, it's simply a computer.

I put it on the back wall of the cargo bay but it didn't seem to behave so well. I know you mentioned that this is kind of experimental, but I noticed that it got kind of floppy once in orbit - finalizing a circularization burn or a deorbit burn, it would fire a momentary engine burst, spin a lot and repeat. I know that's an MJ issue, but I recall that many of those issues in the past have been due to the placement and orientation of the computer (since, after all, that's where the autopilot will control from).

I can launch the orbiter OK (but not nearly efficiently enough to get more than an 85km orbit) without the autopilot, but I have no hope whatsoever of landing it without assistance. I tried the method in the guide but I overshoot the runway significantly every time.

[Jethro Bodine]

My turn for sexy screen captures!

My proudest KSO moment... ever!

If I hadn't taken these myself, I'd swear they were real NASA photos.

Docking with UI turned off... don't try this without pressing F5 first!

Rendezvous at dawn. So pretty!

[Jethro Bodine]

I put it on the back wall of the cargo bay but it didn't seem to behave so well. I know you mentioned that this is kind of experimental, but I noticed that it got kind of floppy once in orbit - finalizing a circularization burn or a deorbit burn, it would fire a momentary engine burst, spin a lot and repeat. I know that's an MJ issue, but I recall that many of those issues in the past have been due to the placement and orientation of the computer (since, after all, that's where the autopilot will control from).

I can launch the orbiter OK (but not nearly efficiently enough to get more than an 85km orbit) without the autopilot, but I have no hope whatsoever of landing it without assistance. I tried the method in the guide but I overshoot the runway significantly every time.

Placement and orientation of the computer means absolutely diddly doo (unless of course the part has *significant* mass/drag... which I'm fairly certain it does not).

I suspect what you're experiencing (floppy behavior/chasing maneuver nodes) is primarily due to the KSO's engine(s) being offset from the COM (center of mass). My suggestion for better results: use the Omnimax 40Ts EXCLUSIVELY when in orbit (the Thrustmax 200s aren't nearly as efficient and just don't handle as well), make sure the gimbals are turned on (not locked) and the pitch trim is set to 14 (just like helldiver said previously). Also, and personally I've found this incredibly helpful for using MechJeb with the shuttle, raise your maneuver planner tolerance from 0.1m/s to 6.0m/s (yes, 6.0m/s - NOT 0.6m/s). I guarantee you'll significantly reduce the floppy/wobbly/spin a lot issues.

[Martin_Baker]

My turn for sexy screen captures!

If I hadn't taken these myself, I'd swear they were real NASA photos

Dang nabbit! I want a better computer :-( I'm running texture compression and 1/4 res and still getting lag issues. Nice pics by the way!

Also, what light are you using above the hatch in the cargo bay in the last shot?