Challenged! The Arkingthaad Nadir.

[Pecan]

This build just gets harder and harder.

Proves you're doing it right then ;-)

"We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept," (JFK)

[Tidus Klein]

don't feel bad whack job, the best part count that i have gotten to is a 512 Super launcher made to heave more then 2.5 jumbos to orbit, or a lander/tug combo to duna in one go....did i mention its used in FAR? yaa FAR.......MMMMMMMMM dat physx

[breakthrough]

Do you dislike the orange color or do the Jumbo-64 fuel tanks not work in huge builds for some reason? I've seen a lot of bigger builds doing the same but I've never seen anyone say why.

[Merinsan]

Do you dislike the orange color or do the Jumbo-64 fuel tanks not work in huge builds for some reason? I've seen a lot of bigger builds doing the same but I've never seen anyone say why.

Whackjob has mentioned before there is a reason he doesn't use them. I forget specifically what he said, but I think it was something along the lines of them not being as structurally stable as the 32s.

[Moar Boosters]

Do you dislike the orange color or do the Jumbo-64 fuel tanks not work in huge builds for some reason? I've seen a lot of bigger builds doing the same but I've never seen anyone say why.

Orange tanks feel like they've got weaker connections when building big. The 32x tanks seem a bit more wobbly, but less likely to break.

I think some of it might be from the flexing and wibbling that large builds always have to deal with. If you've got 5 orange tanks in a row, there are only 4 flex points. If you use 10 32x tanks, you get 9 flex points so there's less stress on each point.

[thomasjkenney]

Looks like a good method for creating an abstract sculpture garden on the grounds of the KSC.

"You knew the job was dangerous when you took it, Fred!"

[Whackjob]

Do you dislike the orange color or do the Jumbo-64 fuel tanks not work in huge builds for some reason? I've seen a lot of bigger builds doing the same but I've never seen anyone say why.

Come to think of it, I may very well give the Rockomax 64s another try. Sure, the connection points seem weaker, but at the same time, I've got a method for sort of fixing that, now.

Perhaps they warrant another look. And now that I think about it, using fewer fuel tanks vertically would also severely reduce the inherent vertical sproinginess that's plaguing me right now.

This is why I love posting threads like this. People chime in with things I have not considered! Thank you, Breakthrough. This is something I hadn't considered and may very well accelerate this design!

Edited February 7, 2014 by Whackjob

[Boris_T_Roach]

Actually I think Whack's greatest achievment will be the ship that gets into orbit while still parked at KSC

It will just go SPRONG! when the engines start and by the time the whiplash reaches the top it will be moving at near lightspeed

Boris

<<<wondering if he can link 4 giant rovers together and land the resulting contraption on the mun

[Whackjob]

Already I'm going through various permutations in my head of infrastructure with the Rockomax-64s. At office, so can't Kerbal, but I can still brainstorm bracing ideas. Can't wait to go home and try it out.

I think I need to come up with a way, with the hexagonal bracing system, of also doing internal diagonals. That's my next job.

[Starwhip]

Alright, I have two words for you, after seeing those images. "Holy", and one I should not say here, begins with "f".

Hope this thing works!

I noticed something that looks like kethane equipment... are you doing... what I think you are?

[Whackjob]

Giant bloody kethane lander tower? Drill out a whole kethane deposit in one go? Sure, why not?

[Whackjob]

Structural testing continues.

As realized, the connections between the orange tanks, while still less strong than the 32s, are longer, thus having less flex points and less springiness. This looks promising.

... note I still got to fuel-out, despite having clumsily shearing off an engine.

[The Destroyer]

I can see it now.. Whackjob re-creates the full scale shuttle, orange tank and all!

...meh, it's too small.

[Whackjob]

Another test.

You can see the absurd minimalism of this setup. And it flies fine. I doubt I can go that light with the trusswork once I'm two VABs high, but... eh. We'll see.

Going to try to come up with a functional angled brace for the inner superstructure.

[Whackjob]

Ladies and gentlemen, I present the first successful launch of a VABx2 sized rocket.

[MisterFister]

You mention the sproing issue. It occurs to me that since you're scattering launch clamps along the height of your outer shell (sensible, since you need to support it while physics loads and your docking ports lock) you're launch-rest state is of distributed pockets of structural tension alternating with compression. When the engines light from below (especially if the clamps all release at the same time) you're actually compounding your problem by compressing the sections in tension with the thrust and momentarily taking previously compressed sections held by the clamps and exterting tension with the freefall.*

My suggestion is to actually stage-release clamps in sections. Cross-possibilities include having liquid boosters radially attached (liquid so that they can throttle to mitigate release sag) at strategic points corresponding to the clamp release stages; lighting the main stack at low throttle to compress gently from the bottom, possibly in concert with an upward-cascading clamp release setup; strutting directly to the launch clamps pre-ignition.

Secondary thought -- with such tall clamps as you would obviously need to survive physics-load, the problem emerges of sliding smoothly enough out of your vertical coccoon of released clamp towers. Possible solution: inward-aimed sepratrons at the clamp heads so as to literally knock the clamp heads outward as they release? Leave a rosette starburst of spent launch clamps at the pad?

*Note: It's a peculiar testament to Whackjob's kerballing might that such a sentence could even make sense.

[MisterFister]

Follow up question: From your pictures, I can see you've clip-mounted 6x radial clampotrons. Are you also using stack-aligned clampotron sr.'s? I'd be curious to know if the actual number of mated docking surfaces contributes to the actual amount of sproing you encounter. Though, I'd be confident in assuming that moar is better once you clear the pad, so reducing them to counteract sproing might not be pragmatic.

[Whackjob]

Actually, I've shelved the docking port reinforcement scheme. Now I'm just using simple med trusses, intermeshing like teeth on gears, and strutting them. The results are in the screenshot:

[Tw1]

Possible solution: inward-aimed sepratrons at the clamp heads so as to literally knock the clamp heads outward as they release? Leave a rosette starburst of spent launch clamps at the pad?

Don't think the clamps work that way, it's probably just an animation.

[MisterFister]

Now I'm just using simple med trusses, intermeshing like teeth on gears, and strutting them.

So, in technical terms, "huh?"

[Rakaydos]

So, in technical terms, "huh?"

At a guess, 6 medium trusses attached to one tank but stretching upward over the next tank, while the next tank also has 6 trusses stretching downward. The tanks cant get out of alignment without clipping through the trusses, increasing stability.

[MisterFister]

Gotcha. Understanding has occurred. Nice.

[Pds314]

And that doesn't even begin to count things like the Thermobaric devices.

I'm actually rather surprised nobody said "let's pile 100 tonnes of HMX into a cargo plane and drop it on someone to see their reaction."

For clarification, I mean dropping the cargo plane on them after cutting the wings off an putting into a modified mega-airliner.

[Pds314]

Oh my, 16 orange tanks stacked. Sure I've had many, many more in lower stages of rockets, but still, seeing a 128-meter tower of fuel tanks get to space is impressive.

[Whackjob]

Oh my, 16 orange tanks stacked. Sure I've had many, many more in lower stages of rockets, but still, seeing a 128-meter tower of fuel tanks get to space is impressive.

I'm planning on having seven such towers, trussed together, and landing it on the Mun. The goal of all of this is putting the biggest lander tower ever on the Mun.

At a guess, 6 medium trusses attached to one tank but stretching upward over the next tank, while the next tank also has 6 trusses stretching downward. The tanks cant get out of alignment without clipping through the trusses, increasing stability.

I think the trusses can still go through the tanks, as they are part of the same ship, but the struts between the teeth hold them in place. And it's still tank-truss-strut-truss-tank, so the rigidity and flexibility are both there.