BSC: Rocket-powered VTOL - We have a winner!

Andrew Hansen · February 14, 2014

Wenhermobile (Andrew Hansen): Fair
- Four different flight modes may be daunting to new pilots, particularly when analyzing AG tab
+ Clever placement of jet engine and good overall design
- Jet and Jet/Rocket modes underpowered
+ Rocket-only mode handles well and has sufficient power

I'm just curious about the Jet and Jet/Rocket modes being underpowered. The Jet mode has a rather low thrust-to-weight ratio - that's true, but the Jet/Rocket mode has about the same thrust-to-weight ratio as the Rocket-Only mode once the jet engine is spooled up.

Maybe since it takes the jet engine a while to spool up, and you're not in the air instantly, it might seem to be "underpowered."

That I can understand, and probably a new pilot would feel the same way. If I were to change the Wernhermobile, I'd probably use more 47-RS engines in Jet/Rocket mode and thus remove a few of the radial engines for Rocket-Only mode.

BagelRabbit · February 15, 2014

At the risk of sounding like your Dad: Good God man! Stop doodling and start paying attention in math class! It's the only way you'll get to play with real rockets in a few years Unless you're also doing log tables in art class - in which case *shrug* carry on

At the risk of sounding like your son: I already knew everything the professor was saying, and I'm actually a science major, so it's kind of rare that I get to draw anything in my classes unless I doodle a bit. Sorry.

I see that Tarmenius has marked my craft as 'Good,' which means 'Exceptionally Awesome' by my standards! Hooray! (I haven't expected my design to be this popular.)

Although, I personally like the escape system. Along with the high part count, it's received a fair amount of suggestions, though I'm actually pretty happy with it. It was almost put on as an afterthought, after many successful tests involving hitting the (1) action group. The only thing I would change about the abort feature, in hindsight, is to add a note in the description that in nasty situations, pressing (1) is a good thing to do. Unless you are less than about two meters above the ground and travelling at greater than thirty meters per second. Which, honestly, doesn't happen all that often.

So remember, vote for the Pavo. It's the only craft here with two effective, simple abort systems! (And it looks pretty neat too.)

mhoram · February 15, 2014

Finally I managed to testfly all the VTOL contestants.

My voting deprends mostly on handling and engine type and my first choices are:

- MiniMatt: Snack Wagon VTOL

- Ravenchant: PackMule

- Xeldrak: CRPLTV

Jet engines take time to change thrust, so they are in my opinion not suitable for beginners trying to land.

Here are the details

Xeldrak thanks for hosting a great challenge again - learned some things about handling landers.

Good luck to the finalists!

Spartwo · February 15, 2014

Lights are a yes.

HazelPine · February 15, 2014

Lights are useful for night-time landing, but causes an FPS drop for my laptop. Still I put one on, because I like night-time flying! Thanks for the reviews, guys!

Xeldrak · February 15, 2014

Wow, thanks mhoram - I allrady thought noone would like my craft

DisarmingBaton5 · February 15, 2014

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Edited February 15, 2014 by DisarmingBaton5
Used smaller image

HazelPine · February 15, 2014

No,no, NO! Somebody put me in their Number 1 list! OH MY GOD!!! Thanks DisarmingBaton5! What did you like about mine to put it so high in ranking?! (Why are you in 19th?)

MiniMatt · February 15, 2014

Me too Much obliged And SaplingPick - to answer your question. Turtles. It's always turtles

HazelPine · February 15, 2014

Ah HA! I knew it! well, tnx for the vote!

pedorsf · February 15, 2014

How i missed it!!! ;.; ;.; ;.;

Giggleplex777 · February 15, 2014

My votes:

Edit: Reviews:

I originally wrote a few lines for some of the crafts, but that took too much time so I'm going with the + - system.

Andrew Hansen - Wernhermobile

+ Multiple modes

+ Rover wheels

+ Action groups

+ Description

+ Ladders

+ Abort system

- Rover wheels break easily

- Jet mode is slow

- Unbalanced as rocket fuel drains

Briansun1 - VV-2V

+ Easy to fly for a jet-powered VTOL

+ Description

+ Action groups

+ Ladders

+ Seats

+ Parachutes

+ Low-ish part count

- No vertical navball option

- Side tanks don't drain

DisarmingBaton5 - VTOL Ostrich

+ Looks cool

+ Low-ish part count

+ Very agile

= High TWR

- No description

- No action groups

- Landing legs do not allow landing while moving forward (i.e. a rolling landing)

mhoram - Kerbol Flying Object

+ Looks cool

+ Long flight time

+ Description

+ Hard to break

- No action groups

- Low TWR

- Sluggish

- No ladder

- High part count

MiniMatt - Snack Wagon VTOL

+ Looks cool

+ Good craft description

+ Very easy to fly

+ Action groups

+ Ladders

+ Abort system

+ Low-ish part count

= Why so much science?

= 24-77s were probably not necessary

- Landing legs do not allow landing while moving forward (i.e. a rolling landing)

PDCWolf - RocketPower VTOL2

+ Good craft description

+ Advanced fuel flow

+ Abort system

= Keeps the overall design of the original

- High-ish part count

- Low TWR

- Sluggish

Ravenchant - Pack Mule

+ Looks cool

+ Drop tanks

+ Action groups

+ Easy to fly

+ Description

+ Abort system

+ Landing gear and landing legs

+ Long flight time

- Hard to EVA out with drop tanks

- Narrow landing gear base

SaplingPick - Leapfrog

+ Description

+ Turtles!

+ easy to fly

- High-ish part count

- No description

Spartwo - Tern

+ Looks cool

+ Easy to fly

+ Landing gear

+ Very agile

= Weapons?

- Lots of part clipping

- No description

- High part count

Tarmenius - Bullfrog

+ Very easy to fly

+ Good craft description

+ Action groups

+ Ladders

+ Drop tanks

+ Low-ish part count

+ Landing gear

- Rather narrow wheel base

ThePseudoMonkey - Omega 16

+ Good craft description

+ Long flight time

+ Low-ish part count

- No horizontal navball option

- Sluggish yaw and roll

UpsilonAerospace - Pavo

+ Looks cool

+ Good description

+ Easy to fly

+ Abort system

- Fairly short flight time

- High-ish part count

- A bit part-clippy

Rhomphaia - HALO

+ Looks cool

+ Good craft description

+ Tweaked jet engine

+ Parachute

= High troque

- Tricycle landing gear

Kasuha - Morpheus

+ Long flight time

+ Rover wheels

+ Description

- Low TWR

- High-ish part count

- Hard to get Kerbal on

- Not a very good rover

MajorJim - LLTV Bedstead

+ Looks cool

+ Abort system

= Jet engine

- No description

- Landing legs are easy to break

- High part count

Psycix - VTOL Training or Learning

+ Low part count

- No ladder

- A bit wobbly

- Landing legs are easy to break

sploden - RocketChair

+ Easy to fly

+ Abort system

= A bit lander-ish

- Hard to get Kerbal on

Xeldrak - CRPLTV

+ Good craft description

+ Horizontal navball option

= RCS

- Landing legs are easy to break

Ran out of steam at the end. :/

Edited February 16, 2014 by Giggleplex777

briansun1 · February 16, 2014

Mine had lights...

Oh second and third.... How?

Xeldrak · February 16, 2014

On a sidenote:

Voting will end in ~17 hours at the time I'm writing this.

Ravenchant · February 16, 2014

I've had the time to test the whole list now, and have to say- wow! Pretty much all of them are great Some more than others, of course...here goes:

Andrew Hansen - Wernhermobile

I liked the additional usability as a rover. In rocket and mixed modes, it had good handling, but seemed a bit underpowered in pure jet mode.

briansun1 - VV-1V

This one had...interesting aesthetics. And hell of a long run time, of course, though throttle control was a bit tricky. Also, wing parts.

DisarmingBaton5 - Ostrich VTOL

Low part count, good handling characteristics, and the best looking shadow ever! Unfortunately, it gets minus points for having some dead-weight oxidiser on it, no escape system and maybe too much power. Still, a joy to fly.

Giggleplex777 - Damselfly

It's maneuverable, looks nice and has decent flight time (albeit not in rocket mode). Don't really have much more to say, but it's one of the best IMHO:)

Kasuha - Morpheus

Well, doesn't this one have an...interesting setup. (That's a bonus point, btw) Also, it's usable as a rover, but it doesn't take obstacles that well. TWR at liftoff seems a bit low as well.

Majorjim - LLTV

Without doubt the best looking entry. It looks like a training craft, and it handles well- like one would expect it to. A bit high on part count though.

mhoram - The Kerbol Flying Object

I really wanted to like this one. I mean...flying saucers! Who doesn't dig them? But it ended up being the only entry I just couldn't land on the helipad...short flight time, slow control response. It's almost indestructible, though!

MiniMatt - Snack Wagon VTOL

Very nice! It's easy to control, and while it has a rather small ground clearance and moderate flight time, this is one of those entries that really look like a training VTOL.

PDCWolf - Rocket Powered VTOL 2

Erm...it does fly longer than the original, true. But pitch and yaw are slow to respond, and that makes it harder to control than the Mk. 1. Not exaclty a beginners craft.

Psycix - VTOL Training Or Learning

More of a lander, really. But it handles well! Though an abort system would be nice.

Rhomphaia - H.A.L.O.

On second thought, it's not underpowered at all, it just seemed that way on my potato of a laptop (lag). Nice look! Again, oxidiser is useless.

SaplingPick - LeapFrog LV-I

*I like turtles*

Seriously. It's also very maneuverable. Now only if it had a longer flight time...

Spartwo - Tern MK3

This one is just a joy to fly. Unfortunately... clipping causes it to explode on the slightest touch with the ground. Not exactly newbie-friendly. But it will stay in my save!

sploden - VTOLPV7.1 Rocket Chair

Hey, nice escape system! The handling and flight time were also good. A bit on the lander-ish side, though.

Tarmenius - Bullfrog

A very good beginners' VTOL. There isn't much to add, really. It's also nice to see those engines put to good use

ThePsuedoMonkey - Omega 16

Well, it's not bad. But yaw response is really slow compared to other crafts.

UpsilonAerospace - Pavo VTOL

Generally good handling? Check. Foolproof abort system? Check. Weird engine placement? ...also check.

Xeldrak - CRPLTV

Another lander-like craft, but it isn't too jarring. A very good VTOL overall.

Some pictures of the lot during testing (minus the saucer):

Of course, none of the crafts were bad. I enjoyed flying all of them, actually. Now comes the hard part...who to put in the front? Hmm... *runs off to get his thinking hat*

Edit: Anyway, I put Giggleplex777 and Tarmenius as 1st, followed by Majorjim, SaplingPick and MiniMatt

Edited February 16, 2014 by Ravenchant

Giggleplex777 · February 16, 2014

Everyone's hating on the jet-powered entries, but I recently learned to fly jet VTOLs from testing these entries. They may be difficult to fly at first, but they provide a good learning experience later on.

HazelPine · February 16, 2014

Well, they DO take forever to spool up, so unless you spend a lot of time flying the same ship, it is harder than rocket power. I think Jet powered vtols work better with heavier crafts, I made a 50t plane with 2 jets for vtol yesterday, it worked better in response than lightweight ships.

Now we have the tense hours before voting ends, I hate the tension!

Edited February 16, 2014 by SaplingPick

Ravenchant · February 16, 2014

Everyone's hating on the jet-powered entries, but I recently learned to fly jet VTOLs from testing these entries. They may be difficult to fly at first, but they provide a good learning experience later on.

True. Besides, they force you to plan a bit ahead, which is useful when landing on places with no atmosphere- nothing like starting the burn a few seconds too late and plowing into the ground as a result.

HazelPine · February 16, 2014

@Xeldrak, how much time until voting ends?

Xeldrak · February 16, 2014

Voting ends in ~40 minutes.

HazelPine · February 16, 2014

YAY! I wanna see the results! good luck everybody! :wink:

Ravenchant · February 16, 2014

It will be tense this time around - best of luck to everybody!

Edit: 300^th post already? This is madness! :rolleyes:

Giggleplex777 · February 16, 2014

Voting ends in ~40 minutes.

Damnit. I still haven't finished my reviews. :/

HazelPine · February 16, 2014

Hurry Gigglepex, hurry! We want your reviews!

Xeldrak · February 16, 2014

Ah, well - the vote is closed. Results are:

1. Giggleplex777 - Damselfly

2. Ravenchant - Pack mule

3. Tarmenius - Bullfrog

4. MiniMatt - Snack Wagon VTOL

5. UpsilonAerospace - Pavo VTOL

6. SaplingPick - LeapFrog LV-I

7. Andrew Hansen - Wernhermobile

8. sploden - VTOLPV7.1 Rocket Chair

9. briansun1 - VV-1V

10. Rhomphaia - H.A.L.O.

11. ThePsuedoMonkey - Omega 16

12. Xeldrak - CRPLTV

13. Majorjim - LLTV

14. DisarmingBaton5 - Ostrich VTOL

15. Psycix - VTOL Training Or Learning

16. PDCWolf - Rocket Powered VTOL 2

17. Spartwo - Tern MK3

18. Kasuha - Morpheus

19. mhoram - The Kerbol Flying Object

The top for will enter a final vote - just give me a few minutes.

BSC: Rocket-powered VTOL - We have a winner!

BSC: Rocket-powered VTOL - Finalists

1. BSC: Rocket-powered VTOL - Finalists

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