Kerbal Construction Time/StageRecovery Dev Thread

[Taki117]

Bug Update! (It's a weird one) Deleted the mod (No issue there, everything worked fine) landed and recovered my aircraft and then installed the updated version. Started the game up and everything worked fine (VAB, Tracking Station, all that jazz) but I still only had 3 starting kerbals. (They were reandom because of another mod I have, not a big deal) but all my ships and other things were still in orbit. Thoughts? (I can provide output_log if need be.

[magico13]

Yeah, the output log would help me figure out what is going on, since that's not an issue I've seen before. KCT doesn't directly affect kerbals or the astronaut complex, so I'm not sure what would be causing it.

[TomatoSoup]

Two things.

Right clicking on the menu while at the KSC screen makes it disappear and all my attempts to make it reappear have failed except for closing and reloading the game.

Also, what exactly are the additional rates for the VAB? I understand that they're upgrades to build speed, but I don't understand why there are multiple ones, or why the later rates have larger upgrade steps.

[Taki117]

Here you go! Be warned, I use lots of mods (But I've not run into this issue prior to the update)

[magico13]

Two things.

Right clicking on the menu while at the KSC screen makes it disappear and all my attempts to make it reappear have failed except for closing and reloading the game.

Also, what exactly are the additional rates for the VAB? I understand that they're upgrades to build speed, but I don't understand why there are multiple ones, or why the later rates have larger upgrade steps.

They let vessels in the second/third/fourth/etc slot progress, so you can build multiple ships at a time. For instance, with Build Rate 1 at 1 BP/s and Build Rate 2 at 0.5 BP/s if you have a ship worth 600 build points and a second ship worth 300 build points then they would complete at the same time 10 minutes later (600BP @ 1 BP/s = 10 minutes, 300BP @ 0.5 BP/s = 10 minutes). If you never upgrade the second rate then the first ship would have to be complete before the second ship would have any progression.

In short, they let you build multiple ships at once. The reason later ones have larger increases is because multiple rates is less useful than one really fast rate (a 2 BP/s primary rate is functionally equivalent to two 1BP/s rates, but if you only have one ship building then the 2BP/s rate is more useful. With two ships they are equivalent).

The SPH has it's own rates, btw, which are upgraded in the same manner.

I'll take a look at why the GUI is disappearing and not coming back. Is it every GUI even when switching scenes to the editor or tracking station? Or just the build list in the Space Center scene? I would definitely try going to a different scene and seeing if that works.

Edit: I seem to have figured out how to make that not happen. It'll be in the next bugfix update, which will probably be after I can figure out Taki117's problem.

Here you go! Be warned, I use lots of mods (But I've not run into this issue prior to the update)

Thanks! I'll take a look and see what I can figure out.

edit: I am seeing an error similar to the one that Kalista was seeing, which I thought I had fixed but perhaps there's another place it is messing up. That perhaps is the issue. Could you also try with a different or new save, just to see if it's perhaps an interaction issue. At the very least there's a null reference I need to fix, but it didn't appear to occur until late in your play session.

Edited May 21, 2014 by magico13

[Taki117]

They

edit: I am seeing an error similar to the one that Kalista was seeing, which I thought I had fixed but perhaps there's another place it is messing up. That perhaps is the issue. Could you also try with a different or new save, just to see if it's perhaps an interaction issue. At the very least there's a null reference I need to fix, but it didn't appear to occur until late in your play session.

Sure, I can try that. Not sure if I will be able to reliably reproduce the issue, but I will give it a shot.

[JeffreyCor]

I rechecked again since reading the problem and can't get it to give me any problems with my kerbals. Right now I have 4 in flight active and 2 more ready. Glad it wasn't something I missed, but also not getting anything useful to help narrow it down. Conflict maybe with one of the mods I don't have here?

[Floppster]

Oh wow, should have checked in later on the twentieth, both prerelease 6 and 0.1 of Near Future got released XD

Trying it out now, don't think I will be dissapointed

[JeffreyCor]

If someone could do a quick test of Quicksave for me to confirm something I'd appreciate it. It was working perfectly (locked in sim, working in flight) but for some reason it seems to have stopped working. If one of you could just hit F5 in your next flight at some point and see if the save pops up as it is supposed to it would help a lot to see if a new bug got introduced with a fix or if it's something on my end. Thanks!

Looks like it was a local glitch, thank goodness!

Edited May 23, 2014 by JeffreyCor

[Kalista]

Just had an interesting bug hit me. Was testing another mod ( trying to get friends back into playing mission control again) when on a fresh sandbox save turning off KCT caused the game to flip out. No buildings were clickible backing out of the space center scene to the main menu failed and ended up alt f4ing to start over.

output log

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwYzqg0314S0TlR1NU04bXlBemc/edit?usp=sharing

order of events I did ( since fraps wasn't running). Started game > went to current career like a dummy> backed out to main menu made a new save for sandbox> turned off KCT then the problems hit> alt F4ed game.

[magico13]

If someone could do a quick test of Quicksave for me to confirm something I'd appreciate it. It was working perfectly (locked in sim, working in flight) but for some reason it seems to have stopped working. If one of you could just hit F5 in your next flight at some point and see if the save pops up as it is supposed to it would help a lot to see if a new bug got introduced with a fix or if it's something on my end. Thanks!

Looks like it was a local glitch, thank goodness!

This likely was a weird bug that I occasionally have seen where for whatever reason it can't save the KCT data and so saving the game gets broken (visible in the log when trying to quicksave). I don;t know how or why it happens, and loading an old save seems to fix it. I may add a message that pops up when it happens that says that it can't save and then give the option to save but with data loss or revert to an older save. It seems to randomly happen though, so I don't yet know how to avoid it.

Just had an interesting bug hit me. Was testing another mod ( trying to get friends back into playing mission control again) when on a fresh sandbox save turning off KCT caused the game to flip out. No buildings were clickible backing out of the space center scene to the main menu failed and ended up alt f4ing to start over.

output log

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwYzqg0314S0TlR1NU04bXlBemc/edit?usp=sharing

order of events I did ( since fraps wasn't running). Started game > went to current career like a dummy> backed out to main menu made a new save for sandbox> turned off KCT then the problems hit> alt F4ed game.

Without yet looking at the log, this likely is a bug I've noticed when you create a new save after loading an older one. Since the persistence doesn't exist yet when starting the new game, the old build lists and storages from the first save get brought in, but the ships obviously don't exist. This results in a lot of issues. I meant to fix it, but since I did this last release while on vacation and had forgotten to bring along my list of things to fix I had forgotten about it. I will try to get it fixed for the next update. I believe there is another similar issue that I need to fix, but I'd have to check my list. I just got home today, so I can do some proper dev work soon.

[Taki117]

Just had an interesting bug hit me. Was testing another mod ( trying to get friends back into playing mission control again) when on a fresh sandbox save turning off KCT caused the game to flip out. No buildings were clickible backing out of the space center scene to the main menu failed and ended up alt f4ing to start over.

output log

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwYzqg0314S0TlR1NU04bXlBemc/edit?usp=sharing

order of events I did ( since fraps wasn't running). Started game > went to current career like a dummy> backed out to main menu made a new save for sandbox> turned off KCT then the problems hit> alt F4ed game.

This seems like a similar situation to what I had happen, but without the creating of the new game. Just Start Game -> Load up save -> Acted like new save -> Alt+F4

Also, I have been unable to reproduce my exact issue.

[magico13]

This seems like a similar situation to what I had happen, but without the creating of the new game. Just Start Game -> Load up save -> Acted like new save -> Alt+F4

Also, I have been unable to reproduce my exact issue.

Kalista's issue is definitely from creating a new save after loading an old one, since the mod data from the old save is still in memory (which is why I started resetting all of the lists when the persistence is loaded, since the issue used to also be present even if neither of the saves were new). Because a new save doesn't start with a read from the persistence, I need to reset everything on load no matter what, at least with the space center scene. Now that I'm not preemptively loading the ships that's much easier and safer to do.

I'm still unable to figure out your bug Taki117. I can definitely tell that something is wrong, but not really what caused it. I'm unfortunately not that good at deciphering the debug logs when they're someone else's. Has your game been working properly since then? Since you said that you haven't been able to reproduce the issue.

[codepoet]

Just an idea for you. In terms of calculating the amount of time required to build a particular craft - as I understand it KCT takes into account the number of particular parts that are being built and how often they have been built, so the same craft built over an over again will be built quicker. May I suggest that similar account is taken of the joint between two parts. So if you regularly put a poodle underneath a jumbo, then the jumbo/poodle attachment becomes something that your engineers are familiar with building and so they get quicker at doing it, whereas if you choose to but a mainsail underneath instead, and have never done that before then that becomes something that will take along while the first time you do it. Perhaps this would be a step towards familiar designs being quicker to build rather than just familiar parts being used.

Just an idea for you...

[Taki117]

SNIP

I'm still unable to figure out your bug Taki117. I can definitely tell that something is wrong, but not really what caused it. I'm unfortunately not that good at deciphering the debug logs when they're someone else's. Has your game been working properly since then? Since you said that you haven't been able to reproduce the issue.

It has been, (Even making a new save to try and replicate the bug hasn't affected anything) I also haven't been playing much (Mostly because I have lots of time between missions and I don't know wha tto do to fill the gap) but It hasn't shown up since.

[Cerebrate]

Question: has anyone tried this with Extraplanetary Launchpads? If so, do they play nicely together?

-c

[magico13]

Question: has anyone tried this with Extraplanetary Launchpads? If so, do they play nicely together?

-c

I have not, but there is nothing special (that I can think of) that would cause them to be incompatible. They should function entirely independent, so craft built by ELP will not count for the part tracking (but recovered parts would be added to the inventory). I believe ELP has it's own system of defining build times, which is totally independent of KCT's. Those ships wouldn't be visible in the Build List window, obviously. If you try it out, please report back with any incompatibilities you find, or even if it just works. Thanks

[JeffreyCor]

Question: has anyone tried this with Extraplanetary Launchpads? If so, do they play nicely together?

-c

They seem to play extremely nicely together They even are complementary in working together in an indirect way. For example, you have old recovered parts that aren't used in your new designs. You can make these are usual, dump them in a recycle bin, process them back into rocketparts and make the new parts/ships with the ELP then recover the built ship. A bit of work but it essentially reprocesses the old recovered parts into new recovered parts for subsequent normal builds.

[magico13]

So I had a request on my YouTube channel to make the simulation mode of this into its own separate mod so that its features can be used without the rest of KCT and was wondering if there is any other interest in that? I imagine that most people using KCT don't really care either way, since it won't directly affect them, but if there's anyone from the community reading this and would like the simulation features without the construction time requirements, let me know.

I also just got the idea to have an option to disable the build times but keep simulations active, which would serve the same purpose and would probably be easier to implement. Let me know if that would be a good enough implementation. Thanks

[JeffreyCor]

I think easier sounds like a good option

[Taki117]

I use the simulation feature a lot, mostly because I have disabled my ability to revert flights. (only way I can is through KCT. I also really like the build time implementation. (it's a challenge to build a jool probe to be ready in 9 earth days) but yes, being able to disable build times while keeping simulations would be the way to go, though i think splitting the mod would be easier. (though I dont know how much easier)

[magico13]

though i think splitting the mod would be easier. (though I dont know how much easier)

The issue with splitting the mod is that I either have to have two separate mods with the same features (and update both when bugs are discovered/new features added) or have KCT use the other mod for simulations (harder for me to do with my current programming knowledge). What if someone decides to add KCT in after trying the simulation mod? Then the data needs to be transferable too so they can seamlessly switch. It's doable, and may almost be preferable in some ways.

Modifying the existing code is probably easier, I just need to disable some features when a certain boolean is set (that's how disabling per game is done). The convenient thing about it is that you could switch between the two settings without having to exit the game. Several times I wanted to use simulations but not deal with build times (I generally just set the overall time modifier to 0.0001 in that case).

KCT is small enough (less than 100kb for the .dll) that I don't think splitting the functionality will save anything there (downloading the whole mod and disabling part isn't too hard). Though I can see an advantage to using the simulations with other mods (MCE for example) where having a separate .dll and opening it up to modders with an API (to do what exactly, I don't know) would be beneficial.

Speaking of APIs, I have considered making one but haven't seen a need. I don't even know what I'd open up. If there are other modders who want to integrate with KCT in some way, or if anyone thinks of things that should be able to be controlled by other mods (build times, maybe) let me know. KCT is almost feature complete meaning a full release is relatively soon. An API may be one of the features that should be included.

TL;DR: Splitting is probably harder, but may be better, but I probably won't do it. Instead I'll make simulation only mode an option in the settings. Should I make an API and what would it be useful for?

[magico13]

Uploaded a new version called PreRelease 6a. Didn't feel it deserved its own number and many of the changes are bug fixes. Among the new features there are:

-Ability to reset spent upgrades (costs two upgrade points to activate. Just makes it as if you never spent any, you still have the total amount afterward)

-You can opt out of using parts from the inventory in new builds.

-In the editor GUI you can manually define the rate that should be used for displaying the estimated time. By default it is the highest appropriate rate you have. Later I will probably add a quick way to check what your rates are from the editor.

-Names are pulled directly from the text field in the editor, instead of from the ShipConstruct, meaning you don't have to save the ship for the name to appear correctly.

The big one:

-You can disable ships taking time to build but still use simulations. New tech unlocks are instant, but any ships currently being built or tech being researched will continue as normal. This is essentially a "simulation only" mode, as discussed in the past few posts. This is turned on in the settings menu with "Disable Build Times?". Note: This is cheating if you temporarily turn it on to get a ship instantly built (say, for a rescue mission or for a launch window) and we will all judge you for that (it's like hyperediting a rescue ship into orbit). However, if you ALWAYS use it, then that's pretty legitimate, since you'd just be using it for simulations, which still have to be unlocked normally (unless you override the body tracker, in which case I might consider you a cheater).

Hmm, maybe I should move some of the settings to a "cheat" window so that people are aware that they're kinda cheaty. Though, it is a single player game, so you can play however you want

But, anyways, I hope you like the new features and the couple bug fixes I threw in (visible in the full changelog). I also updated the Getting Started Guide and am probably going to update the pictures on the OP since they're really old. The Crew Selection GUI has been giving me some troubles lately, so I may need to do some bug fixing with it.

Edited June 6, 2014 by magico13

[JeffreyCor]

Don't forget the improved name function so it doesn't have to be saved to be used

[guto8797]

Hei magico! Long time no see!

I have been away from KSP for a while. I must say, i am astonished at this mod's progression! REAL NICE

Just love the tech, upgrade... EVERYTHING. This should go to released addons, IMO, is there still much left to tweak or add? Getting to the main releases page would brind a lot of supporters, testers, etc.

Anyway, Nice work!