Kerbal Construction Time/StageRecovery Dev Thread

[Kalista]

I can try it out and try to catch the problem if it happens on fraps (along with the save and logs) since like you I always back up my save between sessions incase something goes crazy.

edit: Also I'm fairly sure it isn't FF causing the conflict when I first reported this problem in mid April I hadn't downloaded it yet. Still possible but I don't think its likely.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Kalista

[Kalista]

Hey Magico got a suggestion to shoot your way ( which may be outside the mods scope but doesn't hurt to ask). Any thought on adding a timer on recruiting new kerbalnaunts to simulate training time and what not so you can't say open up the AC window hire 5 and send them on their merry way that second?

[magico13]

Hey Magico got a suggestion to shoot your way ( which may be outside the mods scope but doesn't hurt to ask). Any thought on adding a timer on recruiting new kerbalnaunts to simulate training time and what not so you can't say open up the AC window hire 5 and send them on their merry way that second?

I generally want to focus only on construction related changes, leaving changes to Kerbals to other mods, such as KeepFit or other similar mods. I'm considering this, as it's not totally out of scope, but it would be done much better with a proper backend with a fitness/training mod. Any implementation I would do would be rather "cheap".

Though I did implement tech nodes requiring time to unlock for the next version.

[Kalista]

Also in future versions if you want me to help test it out I'm normally able to do so ( testing some other mods for other games but those don't normally take long).

[The Yellow Dart]

I've just had the aforementioned bug as well, but I don't think it was a crashed vessel that caused it, at least not a recent one. I had just installed your mod, loaded up KSP configured the toolbars and played with the menus a bit, and put 1 ship in the building list and entered the Tracking Station to see when my next maneuver node was. No ships appeared in the list on the left, but appeared in the map. I couldn't exit, couldn't select any ships, all i could do was time accelerate and switch focus from planet to planet. My mods are:

BTSM

Deadly Reentry

EVE

Chatterer

[magico13]

Also in future versions if you want me to help test it out I'm normally able to do so ( testing some other mods for other games but those don't normally take long).

Ok, that would be great! The more testers, the less broken it is for everyone else.

I've just had the aforementioned bug as well, but I don't think it was a crashed vessel that caused it, at least not a recent one.

This bug should be fixed for the next version, which should be out sometime this week once I fix at least one more bug. If you can hold off until then, a bunch of new features will be included with it and it should be mostly bug free. And supposedly it runs much smoother according to one of the testers.

[The Yellow Dart]

Awesome, thanks! Can't wait!

[Floppster]

About the tech time for next version, any info about it? How long does it take to unlock new nodes?

Sorry if it has been asked earlier, haven't been keeping up with this thread

[magico13]

About the tech time for next version, any info about it? How long does it take to unlock new nodes?

Sorry if it has been asked earlier, haven't been keeping up with this thread

I haven't discussed how it works yet, so no worries Firstly, it's an optional feature that can be disabled in the settings, for those of you who don't want to use it. By default nodes take 1 day per 2 science that they are worth (I wanted it to take time, but still be somewhat short, since vessel build times are also pretty short). You can upgrade the rate like you can for normal build rates (I don't know if I've actually discussed that yet on here, but next update lets you upgrade build rates and buy additional rates to build more ships at once). The node unlock rate is exponential, following a 1 day per (2^(upgrades+1)) science pattern, meaning 2 with no upgrades, 4 with one, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128 etc. I will likely add some more control over the rate in later updates.

Unlocking them is a little weird because of game limitations. When you unlock a node you get an upgrade point to spend and the amount of days it will take for the node to become available is displayed. The node itself will appear as if it is unlocked already and further nodes can be unlocked. When you reopen the R&D screen all of the in-progress nodes will appear locked again until KCT actually unlocks them. If you rebuy the node it will take the science and give a message saying that the node is already being researched and will return the science. Because the screen doesn't update, it won't appear as if the science was returned, but closing/reopening the screen or buying another node will make it evident that it was returned. You can use this to research nodes that are dependent on the node currently being researched though. Currently all in progress nodes research at the same time and same rate. It doesn't care about dependencies (but may in the future, requiring that all prerequisite nodes are fully researched before adding progress to further nodes).

I think that pretty much fully explains how they work in the current implementation. Please feel free to ask if you have any further questions about this or any other features, either already released or in-progress

[JeffreyCor]

It does have a minor safeguard as they start in order they are clicked, so even if only by a second the first tech should unlock first. The nodes that take more science would take longer by the mechanics of the research, and you can't select the higher before selecting the lower, so it should prevent future tech from being unlocked first. I'll try to trick it and see if I'm successful, but I'm thinking it shouldn't have a problem.

[magico13]

Yeah, I can't think of a way of getting a higher node to unlock before a lesser one. My comment was more that I may make it so you can't put any progress into a later node without fully unlocking the previous ones. We'll see what people think after they've played with it some.

[JeffreyCor]

I rather like the planning out research like it is. Still have to wait for them to unlock and the higher ones taking longer, but it saves steps if you know what you want to unlock next. It makes it similar to Civilization where you can select a high tech node and research is done in order needed to get there

[Floppster]

Really awesome idea, can't wait for the update

[magico13]

Really awesome idea, can't wait for the update

Your wait is over!

I am pleased to announce the release of Pre-release 6! Download link is in the OP. The changelog is pretty non-trivial (aka, the largest it has ever been for a single release, though the PR4 series had a lot of changes overall) so I'll try to break it down into smaller sections.

New features:

The primary focus of this update is enhancements to the build list, the biggest of which is the ability to upgrade build rates (now measured in Build Points per second, BP/s) to build ships faster and to unlock additional build rates. In career mode you unlock Upgrade Points every time you unlock a tech node or you can buy them for 250 science (the tech node option is cheaper until the very end, the separate purchase option is intended for after the tech tree is complete). In Sandbox you start with a default of 30 upgrades (the tech tree will give you 44 in stock, so it's mid to late game) but you can change this number in the Settings (there's two options, in the game settings section you can change the number for the current game, in the global settings you can change the default amount for new sandbox games)

Upgrading is done through the Upgrades screen, accessible from the Build List while in the Space Center scene ONLY. This has three tabs: VAB, SPH, and R&D (or just VAB and SPH in sandbox mode). In VAB or SPH mode you will see all of the rates listed and if you can upgrade any of the rates a button will appear with the amount the rate will change when spending an upgrade point. This goes from 0.05BP/s per point and increases for later rates (0.1BP/s, 0.15BP/s, etc) because secondary rates are not as useful as a really fast primary rate. Secondary rates cannot be increased faster than the next highest rate (rate 2 can't be higher than rate 1, rate 3 can't be higher than rate 2, etc).

Additional rates can be unlocked this way, allowing you to build multiple ships at once. By default the primary rate is 1 BP/s and the second rate is 0 BP/s. Upgrading the second rate to 0.10 BP/s will cause a new rate (Rate 3) to appear at 0 BP/s. Once Rate 2 is upgraded to 0.2 BP/s, Rate 3 can be upgraded to 0.15 BP/s (and thus three ships can be built at the same time). This sort of unlocking of additional rates can proceed onward to, essentially, forever.

The R&D tab contains only two things that you can spend points on, Research (science earned from building ships) and Development (how quickly tech nodes are unlocked). By default, Research is at 0 science per 86400 build points (1 day at 1 BP/s) and increases by 0.5 science/86400 BP with each upgrade (linearly). This feature is OPTIONAL and can be not used by simply not upgrading it. Development starts out at 1 day per 2 science points the tech node is worth (for a fairly in depth description of how tech node unlocking works, please see the previous page of this thread). The rate is exponentially related to the number of upgrades (1 day per 2^(upgrades+1) science, aka 1 per 2, 1 per 4, 1 per 8, 1 per 16, and so on). This feature is also optional and can be disabled globally in the settings. Any in progress tech nodes can be viewed in the Tech section of the Build List and you can warp to complete with tech nodes.

The build list itself has seen several improvements, visually and functionally, in order to work with the new build rates. Times are given for the current rate and estimated times at 1BP/s are given if ships aren't building. A new * button opens up a smaller window next to the build list which contains advanced functions, such as Scrap the current ship, Rename, and Duplicate. View is currently non-functional and will only change the scene to the correct editor. I'll get that working for next full release.

A major change that may not become obvious is that the ghost ships have been removed as I have written my own loading code, so ships aren't preloaded in the space center. Supposedly this has made the mod run much smoother, according to one bug tester.

That's a majority of the new features, check the changelog for a more comprehensive list of everything changed.

Bugfixes:

Fixed the bug that made the tracking station go haywire, thanks to Kalista.

Fixed how parts were being tracked, so only once per vessel now like I had intended.

Fixed bug with launching from tracking station not removing the vessel.

Fixed bug with Warp to Complete and low orbits.

I want to thank JeffreyCor and Kalista for doing bug testing throughout this release. It has been immensely helpful!

Edited May 21, 2014 by magico13

[Taki117]

0_0 that's a lot of stuff. I'm a little leery about the tech nodes require time thing, but I will try it out. (The description is a tad confusing)

[magico13]

0_0 that's a lot of stuff. I'm a little leery about the tech nodes require time thing, but I will try it out. (The description is a tad confusing)

Yeah, I was trying to write everything fairly quickly before my laptop battery died, and the tech node unlocking is a little bit weird. It's fairly simple in practice though: unlock it like normal in the R&D center, then wait a few days for the parts to become available. And if people really don't like it, it's an optional feature

I'm open to suggestions, but I'd prefer not to have to totally recode it

[JeffreyCor]

Also this release tends to allow the game itself to run much faster so there is less time waiting in load screens

[JeffreyCor]

0_0 that's a lot of stuff. I'm a little leery about the tech nodes require time thing, but I will try it out. (The description is a tad confusing)

Don't worry, it can be turned off in settings to let tech unlocks works as stock If you're already progressed in the tree you'll want to put in several upgrades or leave it disabled or it can take a year to unlock a node

[Taki117]

Ran into the first bug (Might be a mod conflict) but whenever I load up an in progress career save (Specifically my total conversion) I can't access any of the buildings, except the Astronaut complex, but it has only 3 Kerbals in the available side (The to hire list is fine), as if I had started a new game. Removing KCT fixes the issue.

[magico13]

Probably a null reference on load. If you have any in progress ships or ones in storage, it may be a good idea to let them finish and scrap them so the lists are clear. Unfortunately I'm away from my computer today so won't be able to do any bug fixing for several hours.

[Taki117]

Probably a null reference on load. If you have any in progress ships or ones in storage, it may be a good idea to let them finish and scrap them so the lists are clear. Unfortunately I'm away from my computer today so won't be able to do any bug fixing for several hours.

Does Deleting the Mod clear the list, or is there some other way to do it? (I currently have a very important flight in progress that I don't want to lose)

[magico13]

Yeah, it probably would. Or loading up an old version of the mod and manually deleting them (you'll lose all inventory parts and part tracking if you remove the mod totally). I don't know if that will fix it or not, I'm totally guessing right now at what it could be.

[Taki117]

Yeah, it probably would. Or loading up an old version of the mod and manually deleting them (you'll lose all inventory parts and part tracking if you remove the mod totally). I don't know if that will fix it or not, I'm totally guessing right now at what it could be.

I'm not worried about losing the progress, The one probe doesn't need to be ready for another 30-ish days and the other isn't time sensitive at all.

[Kalista]

Well this mod is a wonderful tool for self diagnosing yourself with OCD.

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/577896547180414820/8C538A10E9273DB5ED325B889550478FD0B82DE9/

Yes I tail number'ed all my training aircraft (ontop of refusing to put kerbals into rockets until they have flown the training aircraft). Going to need a good random number generator when I field a fleet of space planes .

[SpacedInvader]

So, just to be sure, multiple ships at once isn't implemented just yet, but you've laid the code groundwork for it?

EDIT: Nevermind, I figured out how you've implemented this, but I would recommend describing what you mean by "different build rates" in your update post.

EDIT2: I really like this new step forward, it really does a lot to finally kill off that instantaneous progression that KSP has. With this properly tweaked, it will make a great realism mod to go hand in hand with RO / RSS / RPL.

Edited May 21, 2014 by SpacedInvader