An Eve land and return.. with FAR.

[Motokid600]

So its been days now.. trying to design a lifter that can get off Eve. Im using FAR so the rocket has to be aerodynamic and its turning out to be hell. A serial staged 12k Dv rocket is simply massive. The tricky part is as I design each stage I need a 2.0+ TWR to go along with it. Im using mods like SpaceX for the large lander legs and StretchySRB for any diameter I want plus whatever non-op engines I can get my hands on. My latest design is about 10 meters wide at the base. But it only has 8k Dv and weighs 1,500 tons. So getting this thing off Kerbin is going to be whole different escapade. But for now I need a lifter that can get one single kerbal to low Eve orbit with enough fuel to rendezvous. Has anyone tried this with FAR?

Ive been trying this balloon concept for a few days now and its.. no good. It takes six of the Hooligan Labs Death Star balloons to lift this thing.. that's just too much I cannot get this to orbit let alone Eve. 12,000 DeltaV.... how the hell can I do thid? Now.. I realize that with FAR and a proper rocket I can reduce that number a bit. And I can also land on higher ground. But pin point landings will be hard with the sizes im working with.

Oh and then I need to LAND this thing.. ha.

[Sirine]

With FAR, you "must have" Deadly Re-entry. Else don't play FAR.

Next, what is your request? Please be more specific. You need a lifter from Kerbin + a lifter from Eve, A lander from Eve + lander back to Kerbin?

[maccollo]

I built an aerodynamicish eve ascent craft that weighted in at around 25 tons or so. It was deleted but I can probably reconstruct it from memory.

[Motokid600]

I've been using FAR for months now why would i need DR? Design tips... maccolla you say 25tons..?! 12,000 Dv? .. Im in the thousands range lol. How can such an efficient craft be built with a 2.0 TWR?

[Dangerous_Beans]

what are you using for the final stage? strip that down to the absolute minimum; FAR probably restricts you from using a command seat, so maybe a mk1 pod, fuel tank and engine.

what are your goals for the launcher? to get into LEO, or to return to Kerbin? building something to get to Kerbin is going to be much harder than building something to get to a 97km Eve orbit.

can you post a pic of what you have built?

[Deathsoul097]

With FAR, you "must have" Deadly Re-entry. Else don't play FAR.

Next, what is your request? Please be more specific. You need a lifter from Kerbin + a lifter from Eve, A lander from Eve + lander back to Kerbin?

AW HEEEAAALLL NAW! Right there. I am going to stop you right there. Do NOT tell other people how to play the game. I play with FAR on some installs, but I don't have DRE. I have ZERO problems, and I find it fun. So just, just no! Don't even go there.

Anyway, to the OP, You should be able to manage it on a lot less than 12Km/s DV. You should be able to manage it with 8Km/s, maybe a bit more. Try doing radial staging, it should be lighter, and you could just get the whole thing to orbit as an SSTO, then refuel it and send it to Eve. As for aerodynamics, you would probably be best to put a kerbal inside a small fairing, that way he will be protected. Other than that, Spam All the Nosecones!

[maccollo]

Here it is. I would just tweak the wheels a bit more to make sure it can drive without problems before sending it to Eve.

There is a seat for the Kerbal at the front, right behind the nose cone. I added an extra probe core to simulate the extra mass of the Kerbal.

It doesn't have 12 000 m/s, but 9500 is enough to take off from many of the higher points on Eve.

The terminal velocity at Kerbin sea level with FAR is 270 m/s. That is more than double than with stock aerodynamics.

Since you are using FAR you might be able to take off from Eve sea level.

So you simply land this thing with parachutes, drive to some flat ground where you'd like to take off, and then you do this:

Edited February 26, 2014 by maccollo

[Motokid600]

Heres what im working on. I have a station in Eve orbit i need to rendezvous with. It has 8,500 Dv without the balloons and weighs in at 978 tons. The lower stage will boost it to orbit ( may even need a second stage ) where i will try and refuel. That white tank with the landing legs has a few thousand mono propellant. I plan on docking a large rcs maneuvering unit up top. Parachutes? Clueless.. was going to use balloons, but my attempts at getting that air ship to orbit have been unsuccessful. Ive considered sending it up in two parts, but i cant for the life of me imagine having to dock this thing. Plus it needs a fair amount of struts. ( KAS is sadly explodey with KJR )

Not docking with the station. Eva transfer.

Edited February 26, 2014 by Motokid600

[maccollo]

.... I think my ascent craft is a bit more economical

I have only tried it with stock KSP, but since the terminal velocity is higher with FAR I think it's reasonable to assume it would get into orbit without to much problem.

Of course if you think command chair are cheap and don't you want to use them you're gonna have to design some humongous thing like what you have there.

But if you're using balloons you shouldn't need nearly as much delta V?

Edited February 26, 2014 by maccollo

[Lukaszenko]

I just successfully tested a EVE descent/ ascent vehicle (using FAR and DRE) from around 1,500 meters. I used an MK1 lander can and no parts plug ins. I DID use reinforced joints but only because my computer couldn't handle the practically identical vehicle with all those struts.

I gave it around 12,000 Dv, but to my surprise I had over 3000 left over when I reached orbit. The vehicle is large, but not absolutely monstrous. Apparently it could be much smaller, since how it has so much margin for error. I'll post up pictures at some point.

[Lukaszenko]

Finally got around to doing the actual flight, with Kerbal and science and all. Here's the ship:

Apparently I had less delta v on the surface than in space. I wonder if the engineering plugin took the inefficiency of the engines in the atmosphere into account? The lower stages were LV-T30s and a Mainsail.

Edited February 27, 2014 by Lukaszenko

[Kryxal]

I think that KER starts with vacuum ISP by default, it's easy enough to switch to in-atmosphere but doesn't start there.

It might actually be sort of handy if you could set pressure by stage as a first approximation.

[DaMichel]

Sorry for necroing this thread, but it seems most appropriate since i attempted to build an Eve return vehicle using FAR and DRE.

This was played with the new FAR version which has aerodynamically induced structural failures. This makes FAR about as dangerous as DRE. But actually playing with the addition of DRE makes the solution easier IMO since you can add the large inflatable heat shield for massive drag. See Below. The craft was initially cheated into a 100km orbit around Eve. I have still to build a launcher for it.

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