Eve surface clipping - am I doing something wrong?

[snepel]

Okay, I've been working on a single launch return mission to Eve. I'm ever so close, but my lander sinks so deep into Eve's surface that all engine pop off.

Checklist:

- landing struts suspension is rigid

- Kerbin test landing was successful

- texture + 3D settings maximized (I maxed everything as I have a brand new gaming laptop)

Sooo, I'm kind of running out of options. I could rebuild the lander from scratch and try another type of gear, but that's not only a pain in the kerbal, it also seems like the surface clipping (which is what I attribute the sinking to) is buggy behavior.

I composed this video clip of my failed landing attempt for closer inspection: http://youtu.be/VxEV0ec-MI0

Is there anything you can derive from the clip or from my description that I am doing wrong?

Or is this a known problem with v0.23.0.395 and should I simply be patient and wait for a fix?

Kind regards

Edited February 28, 2014 by snepel
set thread to answered

[Claw]

Looks like you need more landing gear. The gravity is a bit higher than on Kerbin so they sink in more. Also, avoid landing on the slopes if you can help it.

I'll see if I can find a picture of another lander.

EDIT: Here you go. This is someone else's lander.

Edited February 28, 2014 by Claw

[snepel]

Thanks for the pic of the lander, but those landing gear struts don't clip into the surface at all...

If you look closely at my vid, you see the struts disappear at least halfway into the surface.

I'm not convinced that more landing gear will actually help, wouldn't they all sink into the surface?

[Claw]

I guess I can't guarantee it. I can't tell how much your lander weighs, but looks like you have around 10 struts. The one in the picture has over 30. I was actually looking for another picture that is literally ringed with landing gear.

Oh yeah, one more thing I just thought of for you to try before redesign. Right click and lock your suspension. I don't know that it will help, but sometimes it does.

[snepel]

> I can't tell how much your lander weighs

Check the MJ window bottom right. It says about 160 tons

And 12 struts.

> lock your suspension

Yeah, first thing in my checklist ;-)

Edit: btw, thanks for thinking along. I'm not really looking for design tips, I'm just trying to ascertain whether we're dealing with a glitch or not.

Edited February 28, 2014 by snepel

[Mufasa]

The sinking happens because your struts are getting broken. I actually recently found this happening on my landers also. Some just seemed to want to sink into the ground more than others. If you send a Kerbal on EVA, you will see that it will say the strut is 'broken' and it'll sink into the ground (Which is really incredibly annoying). The only way to fix this I've found is use more struts, a lot more. And locking the suspension doesn't really help, in fact I think it breaks them easier (Try jumping and landing without bending your legs). What I had to do was simply send out a Kerbal everytime I landed and repair the legs one by one. You have to be careful doing this as the legs will spring out of the ground as soon as they are repaired (Also ridiculous).

It's an annoying problem, but not impossible to fix

[SpacedCowboy]

I'm sorry, but I have no technical advice to give you however, the explosions and crashes were quite entertaining! Not trying to be troll or anything like that but, that was pretty cool!

[snepel]

Okay Mufasa, that does sounds like it makes sense. As it breaks, it's likely to behave irrationally (explaining the clipping), so to solve this I must prevent the legs from breaking. I'll do some tests along that avenue, see if I can get better results.

Thanks for the tips guys!

[snepel]

Haha SpacedCowboy, you're quite welcome! That's also why I made an effort to include all the attempts: for the great fireworks :-)

It's not the destination but the journey that counts, isn't it? LOL

[Claw]

Haha SpacedCowboy, you're quite welcome! That's also why I made an effort to include all the attempts: for the great fireworks :-)

It's not the destination but the journey that counts, isn't it? LOL

They were quite epic crashes. Two thumbs up.

[technion]

I had my gears sink into the ground.. just by a much smaller amount. They're not clipping, they are just sinking a lot by virtue of there being so few of them for this crazy planet (imo).

[SSSPutnik]

Awesome video, half the time I was watching you, concentrating on the landing. Getting frustrated etc, was pretty cool.

Better luck next time.

[Padishar]

Also, avoid landing on the slopes if you can help it.

Hmmm, that gives me another idea for a handy KER feature. If a we can read the normal vector of the surface below the craft (we can find the surface altitude so probably, but I haven't checked) then KER could easily tell you the angle the ground is at (and the heading of the up/downhill direction) so it would be much easier to pick a decently flat landing site.

[Kasuha]

Too few landing legs. They all broke, that's why they sank into the surface. Rigid suspension is a bad decision, too. It's better if you let them to dampen the impact.

If it landed okay on Kerbin, give it two times the legs and it will land on Eve.

Use chutes to land on Eve. You don't need to spend any fuel on landing if you have enough chutes and legs.

Hmmm, that gives me another idea for a handy KER feature. If a we can read the normal vector of the surface below the craft (we can find the surface altitude so probably, but I haven't checked) then KER could easily tell you the angle the ground is at (and the heading of the up/downhill direction) so it would be much easier to pick a decently flat landing site.

It's a while since I suggested adding that information to the navball. Not only would it tell you the slope, but its direction, too. In an easy to interpret way.

Edited February 28, 2014 by Kasuha

[Padishar]

Yep, that's a nice way to have it visual and would also make it easy to match inclination with the slope before touchdown. It appears that getting the surface normal is trivial (Vessel.terrainNormal) so it should be very easy to add this to KER or the alternative navball mods but Squad could just add it in stock...