Component Space Shuttle - dev thread [IMG heavy!]

[wasmic]

Hello

I asked in Romfarer's thread but got no reply.

I will try it here :

I want to ask you what is this " it is broken " thing that everybody means with the Robotick Arms pack ? I have my own experience and maybe everybody here mean this: I am using CSS Shuttle mod ( Dragoon01) to build my space station. I am docked with my css shuttle with my first half of the Space station. I opened the cargo bay and with the Robotic arm I am grabbing the next part of Space station which is put in the CSS shuttle cargo bay.. I pressed caps lock ( but I am not sure if SAS is on or off) and now slowly putting the part out of cargo bay. But after some time the whole station together with CSS shuttle start spinning and rotating lke crazy. So maybe guys yyou mean this ?

And somehow I have a problem to load Space Shuttle plain. I upgraded my KSP to 0.23.5 and well it is showing me that some parts are missing. Which I do not think is the case as I was just updating the game nothing else.

Some hint maybe ?

Nope, that's not the problem with the robotic arms. The problem is that the shuttle will be stuck at the launchpad, so you're encountering some other problem.

[Jovzin]

OK so I found the missing parts.

Right now I am testing robotic arm with new DLL and new version of KSP.

Just I want to ask you something.

I am using mechjeb for randezvous with the Station. Somehow I see that it is taking really long time to finish the parts of the randezvous. Mainly the last few ms of burn from each part. For example I have 2-3ms of burn to complete from the matching plans / creating bigger orbit etc etc and it is somehow difficult to finish those last 2 -3 ms of burn as that blue cross is moving and moving. And sometimes I have the feeling that it looks like CSS is heavy as hell. As with rcs it is really pain to turn it around in space. So even more difficult to finish those last 2-3ms of burn. It is intentional ?

[Dolin]

OK so I found the missing parts.

Right now I am testing robotic arm with new DLL and new version of KSP.

Just I want to ask you something.

I am using mechjeb for randezvous with the Station. Somehow I see that it is taking really long time to finish the parts of the randezvous. Mainly the last few ms of burn from each part. For example I have 2-3ms of burn to complete from the matching plans / creating bigger orbit etc etc and it is somehow difficult to finish those last 2 -3 ms of burn as that blue cross is moving and moving. And sometimes I have the feeling that it looks like CSS is heavy as hell. As with rcs it is really pain to turn it around in space. So even more difficult to finish those last 2-3ms of burn. It is intentional ?

I noticed that behaviour as well, logically it could be because the OMS thrust vector is not aligned properly with the centre of mass, this causes pitching. Try to load the CSS (orbiter only, no external tank or SRB and remove the Main Engines as well) in the VAB and toggle the centre of mass and centre of thrust indicators, the latter should refer to the OMS thrust only, and then right click on the oms and set the pitch trim to roughly align the thrust direction with the centre of mass. Be aware that, as stated in the known issues section, the parts labelled "OMS right/OMS left" don't have a properly working pitch trim, as it controls yaw trim in fact. SO you should use the generic OMS engine and set the trim yourself.

I tried it and it helped a bit, it doesn't remove the problem entirely since as you would expect the centre of mass shifts as fuel is burnt and cargo is shed, but there might be other issues we're not aware of

Edited April 26, 2014 by Dolin

[Jovzin]

Hello.

I managed to nearly get rid of it.

But I changed the OMS engines. I put the "FSX0-OMS Micro Shuttle Engine" from Dtobi's pack and it is much much better.

Btw for that testing of Robotic Arm. It is working quite good. I am using the caps lock mode and sas on. Or another thing using "kill rot" from Mechjeb plugin.

[Jovzin]

@Dragoon01: So I checked what format is supported by KSP. I see that .obj is supported by KSP. I am happy as Caligari Truespace is my favourite 3d modeling program and it is using/creating models in .obj.

I am thinking about finally model that part we were talking about. And also I am thinking about making some model for the ISS.

Just I need to wait till 15th of May as this date my wife and little boy are going to visit her relatives so I will have a lot of free time to model something.

[sp1989]

You should add that Real Chute is a requirement

[sp1989]

I don't know if these things have been said but these are my thoughts. First I have to say well done. The Space Shuttle is such an important part the history of space and rocketry I am surprised there aren't more replicas and mods dedicated to the Space Shuttle. We have dozens of Saturn V mods, everyone has recreated and made replicas of the LEO launch vehicles for satellites ie atlas, delta, arienne, etc. but the a proper space shuttle gets no respect. So I am very happy this is being resurrected again.

Now I don't know what the plans are in the future but the required MODS to make this work again are too much atleast consolidation and integration into the Gamedata folder should be whats next. Do you need the entire Lazor system and every part from the Klockheed Martian? Can't you do what KSO has done with Klockheed?

Is there an alternative way to make smoke effects because it runs perfectly without smokescreen and once I put smokesreen in and the fps noticeably drops. Catch 22 is that without smokescreen it looks really unrealistic. I don't know if its just be but the SRBs need particle effects when the separate and they need to separate with a lot more force. What about the SRBs from Bobcats American Pack or even the Tiberdyne SRB separators.

These are just my thoughts a lot of work needs to get done but again I am just really happy this mod is getting back on its feet. It needs a lot of work but it is still really close to being what it needs to be.

One final thought and it kinda trvial but the shuttle needs names and graphics. Its bad luck. I don't know how hard it is make it so we can pick the name of each orbiter but if you have to choose one my personal opinion is that it should be Discovery. If you ask any one from NASA during the shuttle era Discovery was the work horse, most reliable, and best shuttle. It had the most launches, it had the most important missions, and its the oldest surviving shuttle.

Edited May 3, 2014 by sp1989

[Guest]

Didn't I update the .craft files? It shouldn't be a requirement yet. I'm currently trying to work out a strange issue with Firespitter landing gears. Once that's done, I'll release a new version that will require RC.

[sp1989]

No I guess maybe its because I downloaded it from the first page?

EDIT:Thats not it I just read every page of this thread. I don't know what it is, all I know is that Real Chute makes the craft files work. Also, the issues I addressed above seem to have been fixed like the SRB separation. When I separate the SRBs they nearly collide with the orbiter and they seperation motors barely do anything. So maybe there is an old version in the download link? IDK, it doesn't bother me I just like watching the real space shuttle fly and being able to fly it with out it shaking like a paint shaker into the ground.

Edited May 3, 2014 by sp1989

[Guest]

How many .craft files are there? There should be 3. If there are two, then I messed up the upload. Could you redownload, just to be sure?

As for the SRBs, try re-positioning the sep motors a bit. They do work, just no the way I placed it. They'll be better in the next version.

[sp1989]

There are 2 just NRO and PLAIN

Edit:Re-downloaded and loaded, same issues and only two orbiters Plain and NRO

Edited May 3, 2014 by sp1989

[Guest]

Derp. Uploading the new version now. I hope it's the correct one. It has the .craft files, but no other updates I've been working on.

[sp1989]

Perfect three craft files and no need for RC

[Guest]

I was sure I uploaded it before. The upload must have failed, or something. RC will eventually be a dependency, but only after we get a proper Shuttle chute model.

[sp1989]

Sounds good to me. The srbs should have chutes too.

[Guest]

BobCat's ones did, I asked Piwa to add them to those, but he didn't do it yet.

[sp1989]

Now this is just a request. For me I download mods for their utility. Yes I have downloaded mods that I call "one and done" meaning i flew it but i can't use it again so it doesn't stay in my mod folder. Now there is alot of potential for this mod but there needs to be versatility to it. Maybe the ability to repurpose the external tank and SRBs? For the evolutions of everyones personal space programs. So maybe a decoupler and adapter for the top of the SRBs so it can be used like the (now defunct) Aries 1 CLV? Maybe work with bobcat to get this integrated into the American Pack? I know he is at present updating the American Pack and hes got the Buran in the Soviet Pack which never became part of the Soviet Program!! Obviously this MOD needs to be running at 100% before any of this. Just some ideas for the future after everything is said and done. NASA unfortunately couldn't pick up right after the Shuttle and repurpose the parts but maybe we can. Just fruit for thought.

Edited May 4, 2014 by sp1989

[Guest]

The old booster was compatible with the American Pack, I'm readding it. But otherwise, just use the American Pack by itself, it's got everything it needs. If someone makes a Shuttle-C or something like that, I'll add it, but I can't remodel stuff myself. Space Shuttle stack itself was awfully inflexible, though it could carry a lot of payloads. With CanadArm it's great for station construction, though. It'd be nice to expand the mod with additional options, but the Shuttle stack is no Energia. It was not designed for modularity, unless you count the very flexible payload bay.

[sp1989]

The old booster was compatible with the American Pack, I'm readding it. But otherwise, just use the American Pack by itself, it's got everything it needs. If someone makes a Shuttle-C or something like that, I'll add it, but I can't remodel stuff myself. Space Shuttle stack itself was awfully inflexible, though it could carry a lot of payloads. With CanadArm it's great for station construction, though. It'd be nice to expand the mod with additional options, but the Shuttle stack is no Energia. It was not designed for modularity, unless you count the very flexible payload bay.

Thats very true. Its just with all the mods you need now to run CSS the gamedata folder can get a little cluttered. But you are spot on about everything.

What I was thinking actually is the Messiah from Deep Impact. With CSS, Soviet Pack, American Pack, and I think I saw similar boosters in KW you can pretty much make the Messiah. Now with the ARM update it would be interesting to try and make one. I think I want to build the ship in space using the shuttle and other means. I mean thats what they would have had to do in the movie. How do you get the SSSRBs into space without using any of the fuel?

It could be fun to do something like they did with the ISS get all the modders together to build the Messiah. Obviously unrealistic and wont happen but for the ARM update it might be cool. It def a project I want to undertake. Kinda just waiting for this to be at 100%.

It looks like Energia boosters, SSSRBs attached to liquid fuel tanks, some Orion bits, and the front end of the space shuttle. Its actually a great model because its realistic. It looks like the world used whatever they had available to build a ship to save the earth which is what would happen. So I guess my ultimate point is using the soviet pack, american pack, and CSS ie what is available in the actual world, can you really build that ship.

Edited May 4, 2014 by sp1989

[sp1989]

Is it possible that there are no bottom attachment nodes to the shuttle from the external tank? I just noticed taht during take off when i do a gravity turn the bottom of the orbiter slaps up against the bottom tank as if it isn't attached and even in the VAB the attachment node is only for the top not the bottom two attachment points. Just fyi wasn't sure if you were aware of this.

Also why use Bobcats Buran arm when Romfarer made the Canada Arm? http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/robotic-arms-pack/ Wouldn't that get rid of the Buran Camera issue that you can't change?

Edited May 4, 2014 by sp1989

[Guest]

Strut it at the bottom. Also, Romfarer's CanadArm is the CanadArm 2. It wouldn't work with Buran arm model, the joints are different, and their behavior is hardcoded.

[sp1989]

Will do. Shouldn't there be attachment nodes though for the bottom of the tank and orbiter? The last time I downloaded CSS I think it had attachment nodes on the bottom.

Also last comment for now but this happens a little during takeoff but is really bad during landing.

Edited May 4, 2014 by sp1989

[Guest]

Never had that problem, sorry. Try rebuilding the Shuttle, see if it helps. Otherwise, wait till I either find the issue with the Firespitter-based landing gear or give up on it.

[sp1989]

No please don't give up lol there needs to be a useable real replica of the shuttle.

[Virtualgenius]

Please dont give up Dragon you must be closing in on most of the bugs you have done so well so far.

Also I used the struts from the kosmos pack to re-enforce the arm and brace the main cabin. I like the Kosmos struts as they look like struts and and are easy to place mostly the cool factor, here is some pics front bulkhead rear bulkhead

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