Test of continuing KER developments [0.24.2]

[CoolBeer]

I don't know how major an issue this is, but KER messes up badly when it comes to RealFuels, as the thrust varies by ISP, and this throws off the TWR calculations at non-vacuum situations.

Example:

This engine(LV-909) has an ISP from 408.2(VAC) to 100.1(SL), it has a VAC thrust at 37.5kN, if thrust scales exactly following the ISP we are looking at 37.5/408.2*100.1 which equals 9.2kN at SL(which fit, as KSC isn't exactly at SL).

(LH2/LOX is nice, though the tanks get somewhat big for the dV you get out of them, they are light though).

(I actually don't know if it is a linear scale in real life or in RealFuels, it does look like it in the case of RealFuels anyway).

I don't know if this is something to look into at all, it does add a bit of manual work on my part when designing(which in some way is a good thing, but in other ways it's a pain), and I'm not sure what the best kind of fix would be. It could even be that you know of the issue already and I'm just late to the party, but in the chance this is news, here it is \o/

(All tests were done with just RealFuels and KER(with latest dlls, 10/04/2014) installed).

-

Kolbjorn

[Jikahn]

Using latest engineer experimental (Updated 10/04/2014 19:20 GMT)

When I have the engineer window open, the latest Toolbar 1.7.1 flickers any button to the right of the engineer button as well as some buttons in the VAB ui. Closing the engineer window stops the flickering. Also when in flight with a largish ship there is a noticeable increase in stuttering when the engineer window is open. I have about 20 mods installed. If I get a chance I'll load it in a stock install and see if the same behavior presents itself. Hope this inadequate information helps somehow.

Edited April 11, 2014 by Jikahn

[Padishar]

I don't know how major an issue this is, but KER messes up badly when it comes to RealFuels, as the thrust varies by ISP, and this throws off the TWR calculations at non-vacuum situations.

Yes, thanks, this is known about and work is underway to fix the thrust issues but I've been a bit busy. The update to 0.23.5 uncovered a number of issues but I will be getting back to the RF support soon.

Using latest engineer experimental (Updated 10/04/2014 19:20 GMT)

When I have the engineer window open, the latest Toolbar 1.7.1 flickers any button to the right of the engineer button as well as some buttons in the VAB ui. Closing the engineer window stops the flickering. Also when in flight with a largish ship there is a noticeable increase in stuttering when the engineer window is open. I have about 20 mods installed. If I get a chance I'll load it in a stock install and see if the same behavior presents itself. Hope this inadequate information helps somehow.

Something similar has been reported before and I have seen it (though it doesn't always seem to do it for me). I'll try to fix it but I don't know anything about the toolbar integration code and there are still other, arguably more serious, issues to be sorted...

The update speed of the simulation is still being tweaked to strike a good balance between rate of update and impact on game performance. What CPU do you have and (assuming it is multi-core) have you done anything to force it to only run on one core? There appears to be an issue if you run with the "AMD compatibility mode" so try turning that off if it is on.

[AlexinTokyo]

Hi, me again.

I noticed a problem when a ship has radially attached weight.

Using this craft, the TWR varies in the VAB depending on where the radial decouplers are staged. On the pad/in flight, the correct value is displayed regardless of staging.

I don't recall this happening with the previous version of the DLLs, so this might be a regression. Or it happened and I completely missed it, one or the other

Let me know if you need any more specifics.

[Jikahn]

I have an i7 2600k that turbo boosts to 4.43 Ghz. I haven't changed anything to make it run on 1 core, and hyper-threading is enabled. It wasn't a huge hit in performance, just a noticeable one during a launch of a 269 part ship.

[Padishar]

Hi, me again.

I noticed a problem when a ship has radially attached weight.

Using this craft, the TWR varies in the VAB depending on where the radial decouplers are staged. On the pad/in flight, the correct value is displayed regardless of staging.

I don't recall this happening with the previous version of the DLLs, so this might be a regression. Or it happened and I completely missed it, one or the other

Let me know if you need any more specifics.

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/613921452440733016/19E25587F0578F3CC8F65951AF5DCCDA9C6FB22D/

http://cloud-3.steampowered.com/ugc/613921452440734730/7BEB47BFD400A665D7BE9E087303E8185D1DCFCC/

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/613921452440736291/C52DCFA938616F82CBF2F28DBECD872C7BEFE1E5/

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/613921452440737817/6D697BEB28EFC50BA094043E638C00686C6A061A/

It looks weird but I think it is actually behaving as intended (the intention may not be particularly helpful but it does make sense). When you have the radials at the bottom, there is no point in the first stage at all as there is no fuel that will be decoupled so the simulation code will stage immediately and drop the labs/legs... It may make more sense if you click the "show all stages" button in the VAB. The first version will have a stage 3 that has no deltaV (but does have the rest of the mass) because it gets staged immediately...

There is a definite need for a mode in the flight engineer that doesn't simulate staging and just displays the stats based on the engines that are currently active, burning until they run out of fuel, so it looks like I need to bump the priority of that too...

Edited April 11, 2014 by Padishar

[Padishar]

I have an i7 2600k that turbo boosts to 4.43 Ghz. I haven't changed anything to make it run on 1 core, and hyper-threading is enabled. It wasn't a huge hit in performance, just a noticeable one during a launch of a 269 part ship.

I'll tweak the rate the simulation runs in the next update and increase the priority of adding a configuration setting that lets you control it directly...

[AlexinTokyo]

It looks weird but I think it is actually behaving as intended (the intention may not be particularly helpful but it does make sense). When you have the radials at the bottom, there is no point in the first stage at all as there is no fuel that will be decoupled so the simulation code will stage immediately and drop the labs/legs... It may make more sense if you click the "show all stages" button in the VAB. The first version will have a stage 3 that has no deltaV (but does have the rest of the mass) because it gets staged immediately...

There is a definite need for a mode in the flight engineer that doesn't simulate staging and just displays the stats based on the engines that are currently active, burning until they run out of fuel, so it looks like I need to bump the priority of that too...

But the radials aren't at the bottom (if they were then you are correct, I would expect this behaviour), the engine is below them (S3).

More concerning (I think) is that the TWR values for a given combination are different in the VAB and in flight. The in flight one's are correct, and the VAB is overestimating.

[Padishar]

But the radials aren't at the bottom (if they were then you are correct, I would expect this behaviour), the engine is below them (S3).

More concerning (I think) is that the TWR values for a given combination are different in the VAB and in flight. The in flight one's are correct, and the VAB is overestimating.

Stage 3 starts the engine. The simulation code then decides that activating stage 2 has no effect on the amount of engines or fuel so it does so immediately to maximise the deltaV. What you are seeing in the VAB is the stats of stage 2, whereas in flight you are seeing the thrust stats of stage 3. The deltaV stats you see in flight are for stage 2 (and are the same as in the VAB given the atmospheric isp difference). You will not get 2226 m/s of deltaV from your craft if you don't decouple the radials. You will get more like 1500 m/s (the 1831 m/s in the second picture adjusted for atmospheric isp).

The exact staging behaviour of the simulation may have changed in my rewrite of the code but I don't think it has (I would have to test it in 0.23 with KER 0.6.2.3 to be sure). As I said there is a definite need for a flight mode that just shows you "current" stats but deciding how to present it is difficult as the values may be considerably different to the "optimal staging strategy" used by the simulation code and it could easily be even more confusing than it is now...

[AlexinTokyo]

Ahh, OK. I see what you mean. That does make sense now that you point it out.

Also I can confirm that all stages in the VAB does display S3 with the correct (0.97) TWR.

Sorry for that red herring.

[Padishar]

Not a problem. Thanks for continuing to test and report apparent issues. I've done a lot of working through the simulation process in my head and I still sit there wondering why the hell the values display as they do sometimes...

[Jeskins]

Hey guys I am having and issue with the ion engine. The problem is that the ion engine does not show any delta v stats or any TWR stats. I have tried many different designs and none of them work. Every other stat shows except delta v and TWR. Also the ship has just has 1 item in the staging and that is the ion engine.

Thanks in advance.

[Padishar]

Hey guys I am having and issue with the ion engine. The problem is that the ion engine does not show any delta v stats or any TWR stats. I have tried many different designs and none of them work. Every other stat shows except delta v and TWR. Also the ship has just has 1 item in the staging and that is the ion engine.

Thanks in advance.

Are you using the latest version from the first post in this thread? Can you post a screenshot of your craft in the VAB with the engineer window showing and/or upload the craft file?

[Jeskins]

Here is a screenshot

and i made sure i am using the version from this thread.

[Steve-S]

Working for me. Thank you very much for the update.

[dsmiley53]

The .23.5 version is working quite well for me so far. This mod is indispensable for me, so thanks a whole lot!

[Padishar]

Here is a screenshot

http://i.imgur.com/MXLQfC5.png

and i made sure i am using the version from this thread.

Can you upload the craft file somewhere? This should work now (assuming those are xenon tanks)...

[Jeskins]

Can you upload the craft file somewhere? This should work now (assuming those are xenon tanks)...

Here is a craft file.

Again, thanks in advance.

[Padishar]

Here is a craft file.

Again, thanks in advance.

Your craft is working fine for me. I suggest you try downloading a fresh copy of the zip in the first post as it has been updated several times (there is a max TWR display now).

Edited April 13, 2014 by Padishar

[Jeskins]

When I posted my first problem at the beginning I had got the dlls again and that didn't work, but now I got them again and everything works!

Well thanks Padishar!

[oggylt]

Just completed my first arm mission using KER, i really loved it, and TRW(max) helps a lot, now my atmospheric stages will not lose much speed

[luizopiloto]

don't know if someone else already noticed this... but it not take Ion engines and Xenon gas into Dv calculations...

[BudgetHedgehog]

It should do, with the latest dll.

[smunisto]

Is there a chance we might get the longitude and latitude degrees fixed to show 0 - 180 degrees then -180 - 0 again. Currently KER is using a very strange formula when calculating surface position which makes it hell for launching constellation satellites.

I have seen degrees like 260.

[manuelasa1999]

This is awesome at least i can use KER