How to make having multiple crew useful?

[Dodgey]

Am I the only one who doesn't see a problem with just using your imagination? Not being resentful genuinely curious.

EDIT:

Oh and anyone who says that they only send one Kerbal anywhere because it is more efficient and doesn't use hyperedit because it isn't installed by default, what about the F12 menu?

Edited March 17, 2014 by Dodgey

[Red Iron Crown]

Oh and anyone who says that they only send one Kerbal anywhere because it is more efficient and doesn't use hyperedit because it isn't installed by default, what about the F12 menu?

I am that "anyone". I guess my point is that Hyperedit and the F12 menu (which is meant for debugging/testing, as I understand it), alter the gameplay mechanics significantly. There is currently no gameplay mechanic that rewards sending multiple kerbals on manned missions, and I think there should be.

That said, I do enforce some rules on myself that the game doesn't reward, like not using command seats for atmospheric or long-occupancy craft. It's totally valid for someone to require of themselves multiple kerbals on certain types of missions; it's a game and do what you enjoy.

[Dodgey]

I am that "anyone". I guess my point is that Hyperedit and the F12 menu (which is meant for debugging/testing, as I understand it), alter the gameplay mechanics significantly. There is currently no gameplay mechanic that rewards sending multiple kerbals on manned missions, and I think there should be.

That said, I do enforce some rules on myself that the game doesn't reward, like not using command seats for atmospheric or long-occupancy craft. It's totally valid for someone to require of themselves multiple kerbals on certain types of missions; it's a game and do what you enjoy.

Fair enough.

[Paul Kingtiger]

I'd love to see a system where you have Pilots and Mission Specialists. Pilots can do science, but only at a reduced rate. Mission Specialists can do science at full rate but cannot control a craft.

Add on to that a time requirement for science, either collecting it using the current system or having orbital labs that collect science over time when manned.

[Dunbaratu]

Having more than one Kerbal already provides a purpose. You can take more than one EVA report of the same location.

Which is currently useless. The first EVA report you bring back to Kerbin from a biome 100% mines out the science for EVAs in that biome. The remaining two reports will be worth zero.

Unless they do what I suggested about making crew reports and EVA reports return science from different pools depending on the type of kerbal who took the report.

[NWM]

A simple thing:

EVA and crew reports sholud person dependent.

1st kerbal gives 60%(*100%transmission)

2nd kerbal gives 30%

3rd kerbal 10%...

And its mean the 1st kerbal even in an another mission can not harvest more science!

and similary with the instruments like the thermomether and graviomether(etc)...

1/ morning gives 25%*100%transmission

2/ day gives 25%*100%transmission

3/ twiligth 25%*100%transmission

4/ night 25%**100%transmission

I fed up with carriing dozens of same kind of sensors for a single mission!

Carring back the soil samles ok, but even dr. House wont know more abaut the patient if he see the thermomether personaly instead of the nurse's report!

[Amaroq]

The difference being that KSP doesn't install HyperEdit by default. Whereas it does install multiseat pods with no practical reason to use them.

I'm not yet convinced that the multiseat pods are useless -- for any "rescue" mission, I want one, typically, starting with one crew aboard and picking up one or more crew over the mission.

Similarly, anytime I want to bring crew to or from a location.

They allow mission construction like: Mk1-2 and Hitchiker "Apollo command module", mutliple single-man "land-and-return" vessels; the land-and-return vessels can be ditched while the entire crew comes home in the Apollo command module.

I think all you'd need to make multi-crew missions give better science is more than one kind of "crew report" and "eva report" per biome, depending on what type of crew member took the report. So you send a kerbal tagged with the "geologist" skill to Duna and take an EVA report from the surface and you'll get science points from a different "mineable" science pool than if you have a "chemist" do so. Thus sending a 3-person crew lets you take 3 different reports in the same biome if you sent three different types of kerbal.

This has the advantage of dovetailing well with other stuff the SQUAD has said they plan to do later, like having different kerbals with different skills, and it seems like it would be easier to implement on top of the current code already there. You just make a few more mineable science pools per biome and tag them with the type of skill required to get them.

That's a brilliant idea, honestly -- it works much better for my mind to have "geologist", "chemist", "biologist", than a generic "scientist" class. Its simple and easy to explain, should be fairly straightforward to implement, and directly solves the issue at hand.

[Red Iron Crown]

I'm not yet convinced that the multiseat pods are useless -- for any "rescue" mission, I want one, typically, starting with one crew aboard and picking up one or more crew over the mission.

I had forgotten about rescue missions, that's a good use case. Though I've taken to using probe cores and single Kerbal pods for that; I've had to rescue the rescue mission too often.

[Capt Snuggler]

I think once Reputation is added, manned flight will be much more relevant. but there should be more to it than that.

i still feel kerbal specialties/skills would be the best way.

Daring/Pilot skill (something like that)= yes the player is controlling, but through the kerbals little green hands. if you exceed the pilot kerbals G-LOC threshold, the pilot passes out the player looses control. more advanced probe cores could act as auto-pilots and kick in giving the player back control. crew reports while a kerbal is at the helm would provide more science.

Geo-Scientist = affects the science gain from surface based science experiments.

Astro-Scientist = affects the science gained from orbital science experiments.

Engineering = affects repair quality and transmission (not quite sure about this one)

Sure, you may have a kerbal with a high astro-science but their geo-science may be lacking. you would receive maximum science gains on the way to the Mun, but once you have landed, your kerbals surface observations may be a bit rudimentary.

the kerbals available in the beginning of the game, would have lower skill, giving you a reason to revisit planets/moons later with more skilled crew.

[rkman]

In real-life, the advantage of a large crew is that you can do more things (such as science)

The science lab does "more science" and needs two Kerbals. But yes, between that and the fact that a 2 man crew is a lot easier to get anywhere than a three man crew, we could use more incentives for larger crews.

[travis575757]

This idea is great, it would add so much to career mode, and also it would give a better reason to get your stranded kerbals back, i haven't read all the posts but here are some basic ideas for it.

• Technician: Would manage ship and maintain it while it is off in space doing this such as deploying solar panels if the player forgot, managing life support systems, maybe even appear on EVA if the player is away from the ship when he gets back, possibly after a warp it would say "Technician has done x repairs and x EVA's" If you did not have a technician the ship would degrade with time and parts would not function correctly.
  
• Scientist: There would be different scientist types, astro-geologist, astro-microbiologist, astro-chemist, and so on. Each one would increase yield of certain experiments/ have special experiments on their own.
  
• Engineer: Would do things such as repair things kerbals can't, would be able to do stuff like add/enhance parts, would be different then Technician.
  
• Pilot: Would be needed for things such as maneuver nodes and pre-seen orbits. Without him their would be noticeably less functionality.
  

Also RPG elements, you would be penalized for killed kerbals and kerbals lost in space, for each mission they would get experience and have better abilities and yields.

Probes could use a better upgrade too. They should have certain abilities built in. The bigger ones would have more functionality and last longer, their could be special parts to let it maintain itself, stayputnik would be a cheaper lower class probe though with basic functionality.

[KASASpace]

And maybe if you have a scientist you can store double the amount of science from ONE area.

[travis575757]

Yeah maybe also scientists could do more with one experiment from a certain tool such as the goo container or combine science from different instruments for a bonus.

[BGF_Yankee]

Why not just keep it simple? Require a pilot to fly every craft with a Kerbal onboard. Without a pilot, you can't control the craft at all. That pilot/person can do limited science. By adding additional members of various specialties, it fine tunes or hones the amount/quality of science you receive. Different crew make-ups give you a different total of science. If you only send a pilot to Mun (for example in the beginning), it will require multiple reports/samples to achieve 100% science in that biome. By sending a multi-crew, you can accomplish this in less time/tries. Honestly, with the game in its current state, I bore of so quickly being able to do the science in a particular location. Give it more of a challenge and with that, make it more of a complete game instead of a 1 and done mentality. I also like the ideas listed above. When the crewmember gains experience from missions/flights, they are able to do more things, i.e. pilots would be able to see further into future orbits to plan nodes further out or flight specialists would be able to plan more precise maneuvers or a scientist with experience would get more than one use out of a goo container/science jr. module. I like the tech tree in that it gives you things to work toward, but think that in career mode, this could give more gameplay.

[Doozler]

The science module needs two kerbals, although I know lots of people don't use it.

I like the idea of different kerbal classes. I also wonder if the skill should be earned/ payed for/ upgraded.

This would make losing a kerbal a big deal!

[BGF_Yankee]

That's really what I'm talking about Doozler. Right now, there's no real penalty if you kill/lose a Kerbal. If you spend the time and effort to upgrade him so that he's better at his job, it will be much more costly and cause more of a setback to your program in the long run. Anything that extends the gameplay or makes it more interesting/thought provoking is welcome!!