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The Claw and Fuel Transfer

SofusRud
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Dodgey

Dodgey

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Because it's already been described in the Asteroid article. What don't you get?

How it will work in gameplay, I'm sure that we don't know everything about it and should withhold our judgements until we have firsthand expirence.

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CaptainKipard

CaptainKipard

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... there's no modern precedent to compare it to, and players' expectations of how things should work vary greatly....

...KSP has evolved as it has developed...

...cut them a bit of slack...

...But accusing the devs of laziness or bad programming practices without evidence is poor form, and is likely to get your suggestions ignored.

First of all let's distinguish between accusations and suspicions. I thought I made this clear.

Second, I agree with all of what you said; The WIP status of everything in KSP in obviously implicit but the way the Claw was presented in that article was as if they planned to have grapples fuel transfer capable from the beginning, and that I find really hard to accept. There doesn't seem to be a good reason for that functionality. It just looks like a PR tactic, and that's what frustrated me the most.

How it will work in gameplay, I'm sure that we don't know everything about it and should withhold our judgements until we have firsthand expirence.

That's a red herring. We're responding to the information, which has been released.

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Red Iron Crown

Red Iron Crown

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First of all let's distinguish between accusations and suspicions. I thought I made this clear.

Fair enough. But voicing those suspicions is not particularly useful or helpful, so why do it?

Second, I agree with all of what you said; The WIP status of everything in KSP in obviously implicit but the way the Claw was presented in that article was as if they planned to have grapples fuel transfer capable from the beginning, and that I find really hard to accept. There doesn't seem to be a good reason for that functionality. It just looks like a PR tactic, and that's what frustrated me the most.

I'm not so sure. They've obviously made changes to how docking works for the claw, given that it doesn't require a compatible part on the target, it's not magnetic, it (apparently) has no orientation requirements. It seems to me that if they wanted to disable fuel flow in the claw they could have, since they were mucking around in that bit of code anyway. Whether they chose not to for gameplay reasons or to accommodate code limitations is something I'm not sure we'll ever know, so I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume it was deliberate.

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Dodgey

Dodgey

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But you have no idea on how it will be balanced or anything else about it. Only that you will be able to pump fuel through it. It may become permanently attached as a one use item. You are basically discounting it on one pice of information

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CaptainKipard

CaptainKipard

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Fair enough. But voicing those suspicions is not particularly useful or helpful, so why do it?

Because I believe in nipping problems in the bud. Maybe I'm jumping the gun; time will tell.

But you have no idea on how it will be balanced or anything else about it. Only that you will be able to pump fuel through it. It may become permanently attached as a one use item. You are basically discounting it on one pice of information

Dodgey stop dangling those fish in front of my face. I made it clear that I'm talking about one specific thing and things related to it.

Also I like how you changed your signature just now. Number 3 is very apt.

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boomerdog2000

boomerdog2000

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My guess is the claw was given fuel transfer so if you're building an asteroid base, you can dock other modules to the asteroid with the claw and have them share fuel. Maybe not the most realistic solution but I'll wait to see before handing out complete judgement.

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Kasuha

Kasuha

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The claw was not given any fuel transfer capability.

When you claw two ships together, they become single ship. That's how docking is implemented, there are very serious technical reasons why is it done this way and for the same reasons the claw is clearly implemented the same way.

And since the two ships merge into one, regardless whether using docking ports or claw, it is possible to transfer fuel and any other resources between any two tanks in that single ship.

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Frank_G

Frank_G

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How it will work in gameplay, I'm sure that we don't know everything about it and should withhold our judgements until we have firsthand expirence.

Thank you! I'll really like to try out and play around with all those new features that are coming up. And i dont see any need to argue before that.

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TMS

TMS

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Internets is serious.

Who knew there was a debacle?

Let's hope it doesn't escalate into a -gate.

I'm sure much of this could be resolved if SQUAD did a pass on the crossfeeding logic of all parts.

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Keymaster89

Keymaster89

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You know, i really don't understand why u're all scared about this new claw, if i understand that correctly what we know as for now is that it's an arm that can grab objects...

Another new part is the robotic grappling device, which players will use to snare the rock and redirect it into orbit around the Mun, Kerbin or other planets. This new device can also grab things other than asteroids, making it one of the most versatile parts added to the game. These new parts will not only help the Asteroid Redirect Mission but will also offer both new and old players the chance to experiment more in the game’s open sandbox mode.

they never said that it's capable of fuel crossfeed or dock at all. They only say that grab things and will be versatile.

This arm doesn't have to connect as a docking ports at all... maybe it can move objects simply without interfacing it, like grab a satellite from a space shuttles's cargo bay, or repair things or build things like new struts even!

Now, even if fuel crossfeed from one ship to another once is grabbed it's the easiest thing that can come in minds, i don't thing that this is something that could come free. I mean, maybe they want to make this claw able to crossfeed, but if u do that or u puncture a tank and make it unable to carry fuel anymore, or u need a docking ports that work specifically for this new claw, maybe both.

Also claw and docking ports are really different objects.

Docking ports aren't just for transfer fuel, they could also serve in many other way the claw can't, they have important structural propouse, and in the future they will also be able to transfer crew, resouces, lifesupport (in whatever form) and experiments.

U can't say that a robotic arm can overclass docking ports.

Yes, maybe the claw will be able to transfer fuel in some way to another ships, making docking undesiderable in some situations, like if u want a big station and a big difficult to control ship to interface and exchange fuel but u don't want to risk a collision between them. Maybe u will be able to manipulate things, repair ships and transfer cargo, but u can't add new stable modules to your mothership with it, u can't tug things that easily like ports do, u can't build stations and bases with it.

They are different things, that do different jobs but happen to do a thing both in the same way with both pros and cons.

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Red Iron Crown

Red Iron Crown

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Keymaster89, fuel transfer is specifically mentioned in the FAQ.

What is this Claw thing?

The Advanced Grappling Device, or “clawâ€Â, is your primary means of capturing an asteroid. The Claw works very much like a docking port, however, it doesn’t require a mate node to dock to. That means it can grab on to almost any object. Once grabbed on, you can even transfer fuel from the grabbed objects (provided they have any).

It's pretty clearly implied that the claw is a modification/extension of docking. I.e. that a craft clawed to another will work very similarly, if not identically, to two craft docked together.

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Kasuha

Kasuha

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even if it can free crossfeed

Fuel crossfeed is the ability of a part to provide fuel from tank mounted on its one side to an engine mounted to its other side. Nothing was said about whether the claw will or will not be fuel crossfeed capable. It is actually largely irrelevant.

Fuel transfer is the feature where you select two fuel tanks within a ship and click on In/Out buttons to transfer fuel from one to the other.

These two are completely unrelated things.

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  • 1 year later...
bwenos0

bwenos0

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Pretty new here, but do I understand this correctly in that I can fly a fuel tank with the claw attachment and grapple onto my disabled fuel-less ship around Eve, and put fuel into it in order to bring it back?

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Red Iron Crown

Red Iron Crown

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Pretty new here, but do I understand this correctly in that I can fly a fuel tank with the claw attachment and grapple onto my disabled fuel-less ship around Eve, and put fuel into it in order to bring it back?

That should work well, the Claw does permit fuel transfers.

Welcome aboard, too. :)

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