how the hell are you supposed to make a vtol work

[noobsrtoast]

im trying to build a vtol in ksp and it seems impossible literally no matter what I do its either doing a flip of death forward or backward I distribute the center of mass, lift, and thrust perfectly in the center of the craft while the vtol engines go on the opposite sides of the center of mass like would be expected I even distribute the weight perfectly down to the 1/100th of a pound its really frustrating because I have been at this for 12 hours now (yes I have been trying to design a plane for 12 hours don't judge me) and I really really need a vtol aircraft for some things I have been planning but even though the weight is distributed perfectly like I said down to the 1/100th of a pound most of the time I still get a flip of death forward and nothing I do seems to make it stable its either a flip of death forward or a flip of death backward if I try to add literally 1/100th of a pound to the back end its doing a flip of death backward if I remove that 1/100th of a pound it does a flip of death forward.

I reeeally don't want resort to downloading a vtol I love designing my own aircraft, but could I get some tips on how to make a vtol work cause im getting ticked off lol

Edited March 27, 2014 by noobsrtoast
solved

[ScottyDoesKnow]

Google "ksp how to vtol" and there are plenty of videos showing the basics of designing VTOL's and how to keep them balanced and fly them. I remember watching at least one really good one but unfortunately can't remember what it was.

[noobsrtoast]

thanks for the reply but unfortunately I have tried that nothing seems to help might I also mention problems with my existing vtol designs have developed with the recent .23 update (have no idea why) that's why I had to start over im usually relatively good at designing planes :/. btw are you scott manley?

[Cerberus738]

Reaction wheels might help you a bit. Also I would set a probe core or docking port on the top of your ship so you can set it as control for your take off and landing. This will set the navball right and your controls right.

Make sure your center of thrust for take off and landing is BELOW your center of mass. Not just the arrow pointing down in the middle.

I don't know how else to help you. Pictures?

[ScottyDoesKnow]

Haha no I'm not. Sorry I can't help, mostly do rockets and only have a couple planes.

[noobsrtoast]

thanks man this helps a ton ill keep your tips in mind I had no idea the center of thrust was supposed to be below the center of mass

[noobsrtoast]

damn lol, thanks anyways ill figure it out, clone of me lol I have tons of rockets

[Taki117]

is quite possibly the best I've ever found about how to Vtol.

[Claw]

damn lol, thanks anyways ill figure it out, clone of me lol I have tons of rockets

I'm not sure if you actually figured it out, or if you're giving up. But Cruzan has a few good, basic VTOL videos and instructions here.

EDIT: Dang it, always getting ninja'd by Taki. At least I agree again.

[Hodo]

Here is one of my VTOL SSTOs that I made a while ago. This is a good construction set of pictures.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Javascript is disabled. View full album

[Kerba Fett]

Aside from a couple of reaction wheels to keep your pitch and roll under control, it helps if you can put your fuel tank in line with your COM. On a rocket powered VTOL you burn fuel so fast that your balance changes a lot if your fuel tanks are off center. On a jet powered VTOL it takes longer, but then the throttle lag from the engine spool up makes them very hard to fly without using mods for vertical rate control.

Have you played with the stock VTOL to get some design ideas?

[Kerba Fett]

Although you've gotten plenty of suggestions and marked this thread as answered, here's a couple more things to consider.

If you use multiple engines, angle them out from vertical. It will make the craft more stable at the cost of fuel efficiency.

Suppose you have front and rear engines angled out 5 degrees each. If you pitch forward 5 degrees the front engine is pointing straight down and providing maximum lift. The rear engine is angled back 10 degrees and providing less lift, but some forward thrust. (which was your reason for pitching forward in the first place)

Another way to get more stability is to put the engines above the center of mass. To do this you need a mod that allows you to reverse your engine gimbals. (I use Tweak Everything) By hanging the load below the lift you get a lot more stability.

[noobsrtoast]

its funny cause i have almost all those mods lol, anyway i got it figured out but thanks , center of thrust is supposed to be right below the center of mass apparently lol

[noobsrtoast]

thanks but i got it figured out, flying vtols to the mun now lol