[WIP] Kip Engineering: Now updating - Universal Docking Ports

[RainDreamer]

Oh, you don't need to do that, what I meant is designs where we use two docking ports at different heights on a bicoupler. With two sets like that, only one orientation would allow docking properly. Though it still cause problems sometimes. Now with gendered docking port, we can have 1 female + 1 male on a bicoupler, no need for different heights, and only one orientation with fit with two set like that. It helps with fool proof design for building complex structures where orientation is key. Can even make better lock orientation with tricoupler and these gendered port.

Lots of potentials here.

[CaptainKipard]

Some progress on the texture. This is a screenshot from Unity, not rendered, so that's how it should look in game.

Any criticism? Suggestions?

[Buzzou]

Any criticism? Suggestions?

Absolutely gorgeous, i can't wait.

That blueish colour on the sides won't match any stock parts or mod packs though... solid grey/metal would look better.

Would you consider releasing a version that has integrated realchutes like the docking nodes here, or would that be too far from the realism/scope of the project?

Edited January 5, 2015 by Buzzou

[RainDreamer]

I think intergrated light wouldn't be too much to ask, would it? Would help with those darkside docking operation.

And will this be CLS passable?

[CaptainKipard]

That blueish colour on the sides won't match any stock parts or mod packs though... solid grey/metal would look better.

Ok. I tried to give a pastel Russian look but I guest it doesn't really make sense.

Would you consider releasing a version that has integrated realchutes like the docking nodes here, or would that be too far from the realism/scope of the project?

That wouldn't be realistic. This set is based on the Soyuz docking port. The parachute compartment on the Soyuz is on the side of the descent module and it's quite big. This page has some pictures of it.

I think intergrated light wouldn't be too much to ask, would it? Would help with those darkside docking operation.

Ok.

And will this be CLS passable?

Yes.

[toadicus]

One observation about the model itself: I don't know what the little square and round things at the "top" and "bottom" of each node are, but if they're supposed to match square-to-square and round-to-round, I'm pretty sure they can't. But, I'm probably missing something.

[CaptainKipard]

I don't even know what it is, but the square is meant to have a small protrusion that fits inside the round hole. I'll try to make it more clear, thanks.

[CaptainKipard]

How's this then?

• Changed colour, Added orientation indicators, improved texture slightly
  
• Added mesh details to the clamping mechanism
  
• Added a triple lamp on the left side. Soyuz has one like that from what I can see.
  

[RainDreamer]

Looking nice! Assuming the blue arrow is supposed to match with blue arrow on the same direction? I am curious about why placing light only on one side though.

[CaptainKipard]

Looking nice! Assuming the blue arrow is supposed to match with blue arrow on the same direction? I am curious about why placing light only on one side though.

There's no blue arrow. There's green and red, which is what you have on aeroplanes. The colours are not meant to match up, they're meant to distinguish port from starboard from the perspective of each part. You're meant to dock with all the arrows pointing in the same direction.

I made the light like this for aesthetic reasons. I like a tiny bit of asymmetry. It gives the part some character. Symmetry is a little boring to me.

If it looks weird to people I could put it on the top.

Edited January 6, 2015 by Cpt. Kipard

[Buzzou]

looking awesome!

[CaptainKipard]

The parts have been released. Visit the release thread.

[CaptainKipard]

Now building:

• Science-Bus-a; A Hayabusa-inspired capsule for Kerbin LKO re-entry
  

The purpose of this mod will be to carry two science containers from LKO to Kerbin surface. The mod when used will be made up of three parts to decrease physics interactions.

To-do list:

Probe part will contain

• Probe core
  
• Reaction wheels
  
• SAS
  
• RCS + Monoproellant
  
• Battery
  
• Parachute
  
• Jr-size Docking port
  
• Antenna
  
• Optional DRE config.
  

Science container will include

• Science storage
  

The storage part will be attached to the main core in pairs.

If anyone has any ideas or requests, plz post ASAP. Redoing things is a pain.

General shape so far.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Cpt. Kipard

[toadicus]

I don't know your general stance on supporting other mods, but here are a few ideas I thought up, some of which fall in to that category:

• Packing with a DRE shielding patch would help it be useful for DRE users.
  
• Including an antenna (doesn't need to be big or animated; just something) or patch for antenna would help it be useful for RT and AntennaRange users.
  
• You don't say it explicitly above so just to be sure, it's also going to have a probe core (ModuleCommand) on board?
  
• Is this pack emulating the whole Haybusa spacecraft, or just the reentry pod? If just the pod, are the engines, SAS, probe core, etc. really valid considerations?
  
• Ignoring the question above, if the intent is merely to deorbit from LKO, would a solid fuel or monoprop deorbit motor make more sense from an engineering standpoint?
  
• In the general concept above, where would reaction control and deorbit thruster nozzles go? That seems like a hard shape to balance for reaction control given you probably don't want nozzles on the heatshield end of things. Thrust nozzle going in the middle of the docking port?

I'll try to come up with more thoughts / questions.

[CaptainKipard]

Packing with a DRE shielding patch would help it be useful for DRE users.

Will do

Including an antenna (doesn't need to be big or animated; just something) or patch for antenna would help it be useful for RT and AntennaRange users.

Will do

You don't say it explicitly above so just to be sure, it's also going to have a probe core (ModuleCommand) on board?

Yes, Added to the list.

Is this pack emulating the whole Haybusa spacecraft, or just the reentry pod? If just the pod, are the engines, SAS, probe core, etc. really valid considerations?

Well it's just the capsule, and because of that it has to have some control. It'll have the bare minimum functionality necessary to achieve its purpose.

It'll need to:

• Detach from whatever vessel it's attached to
  
• Orient
  
• Burn
  
• Enter
  
• Land
  

It's not a replica mind you. I can take some liberties. It's also bigger than the real one to fit to the Jr Docking Port, which already quite small.

Ignoring the question above, if the intent is merely to deorbit from LKO, would a solid fuel or monoprop deorbit motor make more sense from an engineering standpoint?

If you think so, I'll do that instead

In the general concept above, where would reaction control and deorbit thruster nozzles go? That seems like a hard shape to balance for reaction control given you probably don't want nozzles on the heatshield end of things. Thrust nozzle going in the middle of the docking port?

Ok yeah I forgot to add reaction wheels.

I only need two RCS thrusters on either side of the sloped part of it pointing in the opposite direction of the heat shield. It's also a perfect place for moving away from the mothership after undocking. The player will need to pitch and yaw for each manoeuvre.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Cpt. Kipard

[RainDreamer]

Would there be a small RTG inside to ensure it won't lose control in middle of the flight down when you abuse the reaction wheels too much? Doesn't have to be a lot, just enough that when you are not turning things around with reaction wheels it will generate some EC and keep the probe working.

[toadicus]

would a solid fuel or monoprop deorbit motor make more sense from an engineering standpoint?

If you think so, I'll do that instead

I do think it makes more sense; carrying 1 type of fuel instead of 3 is almost certainly an engineering boon for an ultra-short range vehicle. IMO a focusing during its engineering design would be on saving weight, and eliminating extra fuel pumps, mixers, and tanks when you don't need the motor efficiency makes good sense to me.

Would there be a small RTG inside to ensure it won't lose control in middle of the flight down when you abuse the reaction wheels too much? Doesn't have to be a lot, just enough that when you are not turning things around with reaction wheels it will generate some EC and keep the probe working.

Just my 2¢, but I think that's inappropriate for a part like this... mostly because it should more or less be a "fire and forget" part. If it's (physically) balanced properly it'll orient itself during descent, so if it's (game-mechanically) balanced properly you'll have the EC you need to deploy the chutes and recover when the time comes.

[CaptainKipard]

Would there be a small RTG inside to ensure it won't lose control in middle of the flight down when you abuse the reaction wheels too much? Doesn't have to be a lot, just enough that when you are not turning things around with reaction wheels it will generate some EC and keep the probe working.

No, I feel like that's overkill. I'll just give it a sufficiently large battery. The part will be placed late in the tree, by which time I hope new players will already know how to pilot efficiently.

Unrelated

I've got a small problem. Because the parts are so small right clicking on them while on EVA could get a little tricky. I'm considering breaking it up into only two parts, both of which would have a science container. I don't really like that idea, because placing science into the heat shield breaks immersion. Does anyone have any ideas?

[RainDreamer]

Is making the whole thing one unit not possible? Heatshield and all in one piece?

Looking forward to this! I just got a contact to get a probe to mun and back to kerbin, and this would probably be what I need.

Edited January 13, 2015 by RainDreamer

[toadicus]

I've got a small problem. Because the parts are so small right clicking on them while on EVA could get a little tricky. I'm considering breaking it up into only two parts, both of which would have a science container. I don't really like that idea, because placing science into the heat shield breaks immersion. Does anyone have any ideas?

Is there a reason both parts need one? You can give science containers more-or-less unlimited capacity; why not just put a science container on the top bit?

[CaptainKipard]

Is making the whole thing one unit not possible? Heatshield and all in one piece?

Is there a reason both parts need one? You can give science containers more-or-less unlimited capacity; why not just put a science container on the top bit?

It's because to get full science return from something like a surface sample you need to take two of them, and you can't keep two on your Kerbal person or in a pod.

You take one, store it in one container, take the second one (which will have equal value as the first because you stored the first one) and store it in the second container. Sending both separate and equal samples give you 100% on recovery. Diminishing returns don't apply in this situation.

[RainDreamer]

Hmm. How about making a KAS-compatible hard drive part to go along with this as companion parts? You store your science results to hard drives, you slot it inside the probe, then you send it home.

Kind of like what this person did with Modular Computer Pack. Just need slots for hard drive installing now.

[AccidentalDisassembly]

No clue if this will be helpful, but I use this mod: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/90678-0-90-Science-Containers-v-08-2

... and I wonder how his containers handle multiple samples, or if they do. Even though I've played with it, I honestly can't remember what happens when you have two surface samples, let's say. But if they somehow allow duplicate samples, it might be one possible avenue for having just one container part on the return capsule. Maybe.

[CaptainKipard]

Hmm. How about making a KAS-compatible hard drive part to go along with this as companion parts? You store your science results to hard drives, you slot it inside the probe, then you send it home.

Kind of like what this person did with Modular Computer Pack. Just need slots for hard drive installing now.

The only way I'd do that would be if stack nodes were supported by KAS, which afaik they're not.

No clue if this will be helpful, but I use this mod: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/90678-0-90-Science-Containers-v-08-2

... and I wonder how his containers handle multiple samples, or if they do. Even though I've played with it, I honestly can't remember what happens when you have two surface samples, let's say. But if they somehow allow duplicate samples, it might be one possible avenue for having just one container part on the return capsule. Maybe.

It doesn't look like that's possible.

[RainDreamer]

The only way I'd do that would be if stack nodes were supported by KAS, which afaik they're not.

I am sorry about my ignorance, but can't it be done the same way with how KAS containers are slotted into their holders, or like how box sat's modules can be slotted into the frames?