Comets, using the new asteroid generation system

[kerbonaut101]

Now that asteroids are going to be added, do you think we will soon see comets added as well? Obviously the orbits would have to different (starting from way beyond the orbit of Eeloo and coming in very close towards the Sun). This would allow us to carry out missions similar to Philae and the Star Dust missions (a manned return mission to a comet would be an incredibly hard thing to accomplish).

Basically, comets would use the same system as asteroids, there would be multiple classes of comets based on size (and brightness?) you would have to go into the tracking station and track the 'unknown object' at the edge of the kerbal system and then plan a mission based on the info you get. I think that comets on a collision course with Kerbin should be really rare (in real life they'd probably just burn up the atmosphere anyway), comets should be more likely to impact the Sun.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_missions_to_comets

Edited March 29, 2014 by kerbonaut101

[CaptRobau]

I very much support this. Would pose a very different challenge due to their large and highly elliciptical orbit compared to Near Kerbin Asteroids, but without too much changes to the underlying system (detection, comet tail, surface texture).

[Mitchz95]

Sounds like a neat challenge. Let's do it!

[kerbonaut101]

Sounds like a neat challenge. Let's do it!

You'd probably have to wait until the comet was as close as possible to Kerbin, otherwise the DeltaV cost would be through the roof...

Edited March 29, 2014 by kerbonaut101

[vger]

How to achieve the tail effect (especially given their size) is something I have wondered about many times. It's hard to imagine how that could be done without volumetric, which I don't think the game currently supports. It's easy to fake an atmosphere because of its shape, but a comet tail?

Also, would this be new science gear? Should we get points just for flying through the tail and collecting data? Or does it require taking samples?

[*Aqua*]

a comet tail?

That should be possible using the smoke effect. But I don't know if it will look good.

Other question:

What will comets add to the game? They are described as 'just another' asteroid on a highly eclipsed orbit. Why should the player fly to them when they already have asteroids near Kerbin? What's the point?

[kerbonaut101]

How to achieve the tail effect (especially given their size) is something I have wondered about many times. It's hard to imagine how that could be done without volumetric, which I don't think the game currently supports. It's easy to fake an atmosphere because of its shape, but a comet tail?

Also, would this be new science gear? Should we get points just for flying through the tail and collecting data? Or does it require taking samples?

I suppose there could be different biomes on comets and the tail would just be another one those biomes (not sure how that effect could be created, I suppose support for volumetric would have to be added?). Theres could potential for new comet related parts aswell, such as drills and ice/dust collectors (for the tail)

What's the point?

The appearance and what you can do with them would be different to asteriods (perhaps you could get a higher science payout in career mode due to the increased difficulty?). Also, its a new challenge, and for some people thats enough of a reason to try and get there. Also mentioned previously is the potential for new comet related science parts

Also, if you manage to land on a comet and you have enough fuel, you could probably use it to get a free trip around the solar system

Edited March 29, 2014 by kerbonaut101

[vger]

What will comets add to the game? They are described as 'just another' asteroid on a highly eclipsed orbit. Why should the player fly to them when they already have asteroids near Kerbin? What's the point?

The composition of a comet is drastically different from an asteroid. And Rosetta would like a word with you.

[*Aqua*]

The appearance and what you can do with them would be different to asteriods

Could you be more specific in what the player can do new with them?

The new thing about asteroids is they can be catched and made into stations, space crafts, etc. But what new thing add comets? They can't be catched (way to much delta v needed), more science points aren't needed (there are already enough points to collect from a range of sources), the only really new thing is a changed appearance. That's a bit little. There is no real addition to the game play experience.

How about making them destructible? Firing an impactor causes comets to break into smaller pieces Armageddon-style, this could be interesting. Or using its water to make fuel. Just something which makes most if not all players want to go after them.

[vger]

Could you be more specific in what the player can do new with them?

The new thing about asteroids is they can be catched and made into stations, space crafts, etc. But what new thing add comets? They can't be catched (way to much delta v needed), more science points aren't needed (there are already enough points to collect from a range of sources), the only really new thing is a changed appearance. That's a bit little. There is no real addition to the game play experience.

How about making them destructible? Firing an impactor causes comets to break into smaller pieces Armageddon-style, this could be interesting. Or using its water to make fuel. Just something which makes most if not all players want to go after them.

"Too much science" isn't really an issue. This is a sandbox game after all, so it makes sense that there be different routes to achieving your R&D goals. After the Mun and Minmus, my next objective was the sun of all things.

And why would you want to blow up a comet?

And a comet rendezvous would be quite a challenge, far more than an asteroid.

[*Aqua*]

And why would you want to blow up a comet?

because

Just something which makes most if not all players want to go after them.

Of course there are players whose like a real challenge like catching a comet. But 90-95% of the players won't be able to do that (too difficult). You can't add features only the small minority of elite players can experience. Think about it, most players have problems to reach Jool. There are quite a lot which even never got beyond Minmus.

There must be something which allows the average player to reach a comet and there must be a reason for the average player to try to get there. These two points aren't fulfilled by the proposal.

[kerbonaut101]

because

Of course there are players whose like a real challenge like catching a comet. But 90-95% of the players won't be able to do that (too difficult). You can't add features only the small minority of elite players can experience. Think about it, most players have problems to reach Jool. There are quite a lot which even never got beyond Minmus.

There must be something which allows the average player to reach a comet and there must be a reason for the average player to try to get there. These two points aren't fulfilled by the proposal.

Youtube tutorials (Scott Manley and KurtJmac are my favourite) and those found on the wiki will become your new friends, I got my first probes to duna and Eve mainly by using the ksp calculator and mechjeb to find out the phase angles (i dont like using autopilots). I reccently managed to get a probe to Eeloo, but it crashed during landing

http://ksp.olex.biz/

http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Tutorial:How_to_get_to_Duna

Edited March 29, 2014 by kerbonaut101

[CaptRobau]

How to achieve the tail effect (especially given their size) is something I have wondered about many times. It's hard to imagine how that could be done without volumetric, which I don't think the game currently supports. It's easy to fake an atmosphere because of its shape, but a comet tail?

Perhaps something similar to the atmospheric reentry effects? At least from a distance that looks like a fire-red comet streaking through the sky.

Of course there are players whose like a real challenge like catching a comet. But 90-95% of the players won't be able to do that (too difficult). You can't add features only the small minority of elite players can experience. Think about it, most players have problems to reach Jool. There are quite a lot which even never got beyond Minmus.

There must be something which allows the average player to reach a comet and there must be a reason for the average player to try to get there. These two points aren't fulfilled by the proposal.

Then why should they add anything beyond Duna? Eeloo, Tylo, Bop and Pol are hard to get to and only differ in their terrain and stats. Yet the community still seems to not be fed up with new planets and moons (constant requests for more celestial bodies all those popular PlanetFactory mods).

[vger]

Perhaps something similar to the atmospheric reentry effects? At least from a distance that looks like a fire-red comet streaking through the sky.

Yeah, you wouldn't want the motion to look so dynamic though. And slowing that effect down probably would look like a mess. Plus, you'd be stretching that effect across countless kilometers, which would probably cause it to glitch out like crazy.

I have to wonder if up close you'd even be able to see tiny chunks of ice or if it would just look like a haze. We'll find out soon though. Hopefully.

[*Aqua*]

I got my first probes to duna and Eve mainly by using the ksp calculator and mechjeb to find out the phase angles

As an average player I did it by just messing around with the node tool. It took a few tries because I always ran out of fuel. I still wasn't able to return a probe from Duna. Most of my interplanetary travels are oneway missions.

Then why should they add anything beyond Duna? Eeloo, Tylo, Bop and Pol are hard to get to and only differ in their terrain and stats. Yet the community still seems to not be fed up with new planets and moons (constant requests for more celestial bodies all those popular PlanetFactory mods).

I don't know why the devs added them. They probably have their reasons. I visited Tylo, Bop and Pol only once. The only interesting thing for me about the Jool moons is that there a lot of them in close proximity which makes maneuvers fun. If Jool would orbit the sun way closer to Kerbin I would visit it frequently.

I still don't see an appropriate reward for the player to visit comets.

I mean you'll build a huge rocket or several of them. You'll maybe assemble or refuel a ship in orbit. You'll mess with orbital mechanics until you'll finally reach a comet. Hours of work for what? A surface sample? Come on...

[vger]

I still don't see an appropriate reward for the player to visit comets.

I mean you'll build a huge rocket or several of them. You'll maybe assemble or refuel a ship in orbit. You'll mess with orbital mechanics until you'll finally reach a comet. Hours of work for what? A surface sample? Come on...

You just described practically any kerb'd landing, if all you care about is the science value.

There's ways of making it more interesting though. You could effectively give 'biomes' to the material around the nucleus.

And besides, comets are pretty.

Edited March 29, 2014 by vger

[Red Iron Crown]

I would like comets, just to add more variety to the bodies you can visit. It's like climbing a mountain, I don't need any more reason to go to one than "because it's there".

If they work like asteroids and are able to be clawed and redirected, I might just start slamming them into Duna. For terraforming purposes. Totally not for the big explosions.

[kerbonaut101]

I would like comets, just to add more variety to the bodies you can visit. It's like climbing a mountain, I don't need any more reason to go to one than "because it's there".

If they work like asteroids and are able to be clawed and redirected, I might just start slamming them into Duna. For terraforming purposes. Totally not for the big explosions.

I dont think the devs are planning to add terraforming for V1.0, so you'd probably just get big explosions, besides the DeltaV required to redirect a comet in highly eccentric orbit would be enormous. But with enough fuel and nuclear rockets it could be done

Edited March 29, 2014 by kerbonaut101

[kerbonaut101]

"because it's there".

Thats the only reason I try to go to places like Eeloo Also, more variety is always good.

[*Aqua*]

There's ways of making it more interesting though. You could effectively give 'biomes' to the material around the nucleus.

That's a good idea!

If the 'biomes' have different effects on the rocket, it would be even more interesting, e. g. the tail blocks shortcuts electric modules (why? don't know) or the coma rips of solar panels or making green kerbals blue. That could be fun.

[vger]

That's a good idea!

If the 'biomes' have different effects on the rocket, it would be even more interesting, e. g. the tail blocks shortcuts electric modules (why? don't know) or the coma rips of solar panels or making green kerbals blue. That could be fun.

I'd expect a pretty nasty ionization blackout at least.

And... "The mysterious goo seems to be having a kool-aid party."

...sorry.

Edited March 29, 2014 by vger

[kerbonaut101]

I'd expect a pretty nasty ionization blackout at least.

And... "The mysterious goo seems to be having a kool-aid party."

...sorry.

Imagine doing an EVA report near in a comets tail...

JEB: "Why do I let Gene Kerman talk me into things like this...?"

lol

[boomerdog2000]

It might be better if they showed the little question marks for the comets when they passed near the sun instead of Kerbin. The idea being the outgassing from the comets passing near the sun is easier to pick up then just the random odds of it traveling near Kerbin.

[Red Iron Crown]

It might be better if they showed the little question marks for the comets when they passed near the sun instead of Kerbin. The idea being the outgassing from the comets passing near the sun is easier to pick up then just the random odds of it traveling near Kerbin.

That's a good idea, and it would give you time to set up the intercept on its way out system.

[kerbonaut101]

That's a good idea, and it would give you time to set up the intercept on its way out system.

Well, the comets your tracking wouldn't leave the system they'd just be on a highly eccentric orbit that would take it far beyond Eeloo (into the Kerbal version of the Kuiper belt). In regards to where the comets are generated, perhaps they should appear from Kerbins orbit inwards as id imagine the temperature in space would be more than enough to make comets easy to track?