Universal Storage 1.4.0.0 (For KSP 1.4.x) 13th March 2018

[CoolBeer]

How about some more various stuff to fit inmside storage?

Batteries, monopropellanttanksm, rtg units, maybe some science parts?

As a workaround until eventual parts get added you can make your own.

For making a monoprop tank I went into the US_l_Wedge_Hydrogen part directory, made a copy of the part.cfg file(I left it in the same directory).

(This does mean the part will display the hydrogen texture, but I really don't have a problem with that(personally I would prefer to reuse the same texture for all the tank parts to save memory)).

Change the name, title and description fields to something fitting(say TMP_Wedge_Monoprop for the name).

I changed the RESOURCE field to

RESOURCE
{
	name = MonoPropellant
	amount = 25
	maxAmount = 25
}

EDIT: 25, not 35

If you are using RealFuels it becomes like this:

MODULE
{
	name = ModuleFuelTanks
	volume = 58
	type = RCSHighEfficiency
}

You can even make a standard fuel tank very easily with RealFuels:

MODULE
{
	name = ModuleFuelTanks
	volume = 58
	type = Default
}

EDIT: Default with a capital letter, important!

(Units might need tweaking, no balancing done. The 25 values comes from seeing the 1.25m RCS tank take 100 units, it's roughly the size of 4 wedges. The 60 value comes from calculating how many liters liquid oxygen fits into the oxygen wedge tanks, which is 57.9316... liters, rounded up to look pretty).

EDIT: Hmm, the 1.25m RCS and Fuel tanks in RealFuels claim to hold 500 units(which should be liters), which would make each wedge about 125 (I guess since inside the wedge there are tanks it makes sense at 58, it's not like the whole wedge is a tank).

Same goes for making a battery:

(Not that I see a need for a battery, as the fuel cell is more or less working as a battery, could be handy as a backup battery if all fails I suppose(disable battery at beginning of mission, enable if power runs out and you REALLY need power), it's not like the fuel cells can explode or anything(Apollo 13 scenario ).

RESOURCE
{
    name = ElectricCharge
    amount = 200
    maxAmount = 200
}

(Capacity value is picked out of thin air)

You could even make combinations inside a single wedge if you really wanted to.

-

Kolbjorn

Edited April 6, 2014 by CoolBeer

[Raptor831]

Ok, this should be my last attempt at getting TACLS and US to play nice with each other. Here's a MM config that changes the Fuel Cell found in the US pack to a simple TAC Generator/Converter. I took the numbers from the 2nd post, got the rate per 24 hours (i.e. TAC's base time measurement), then converted the liters to TAC daily units per his chart. This should produce the exact amount of electricity for the exact same amount of resources (minus any rounding errors that crept in). Also, like the previous versions, the amounts in the wedges have been adjusted to match. I did test these changes before putting this up, but they may not be quite right, given the amount of tedious math involved. If I made a mistake, feel free to post up a fix.

Download the config

Installation: Comment out or delete the Oxygen and Water resources in the NHSME_FC_Resources.cfg, then place the config somewhere in your GameData folder. You need ModuleManager 1.5+ as well (obviously).

I'm thinking of just pushing TAC to liters in my save (like CoolBeer's solution in the TACLS thread), as that'd be easier than trying to convert resources for every other mod. That way I could go between KSPI, Real Fuels, TACLS, and this mod without crazy hoop jumping.

[Paul Kingtiger]

As a workaround until eventual parts get added you can make your own.....

If it helps, the volume of the 4 tanks in the wedge hydrogen model are 58 liters (total) and the volume of the entire wedge (if it was 100% tank) is 123 liters.

[CoolBeer]

We're looking at creating an RCS fuel wedge, but the wedges only have a maximum volume of 123 liters, which isn't a useful amount for liquid fuel or oxidizer*.

* plus I've no idea what the units are for liquid fuel or oxidizer, although I can make some assumptions based on mass and real world fuels.

Looking at it and thinking a bit, you could make double height tanks, that requires two of the cores stacked on top of each other, doesn't need to be connected to both the cores(as multiple connection points is very hard to pull off with the tree node structure). That'll get you to almost 246l, which starts to get useful at least, say you run two fuel cells and 3 double height RCS tanks.

Thought, that'll mean making more parts, and you could really just stack single height tanks around for the same effect. (Darnit, I talked myself out of my viewpoint by this...)

I see the RealFuels mod is using 500 liter capacity for the 1.25m diameter tanks, which I calculated to be around 700 liter in raw dimensions(0.625m diameter, 0.57m height), so a quarter wedge at 100l or so would fit a purpose.

In real life I suppose you would get issues with the shape when applying pressure, I don't know how closely we want to emulate that, as it'll impede the capacity even more(putting round tanks inside the wedge).

Anyway, loving the concept so far

-

Kolbjorn

[CoolBeer]

Hmm, seems the "TechRequired = space exploration" thing has crept into the latest release again for the Octocore.

-

Kolbjorn

[Paul Kingtiger]

Hmm, seems the "TechRequired = space exploration" thing has crept into the latest release again for the Octocore.

Damn, sorry, download updated.

[Paul Kingtiger]

In real life I suppose you would get issues with the shape when applying pressure, I don't know how closely we want to emulate that, as it'll impede the capacity even more(putting round tanks inside the wedge).

So the wedges do exactly that! Daishi modelled the wedge with 4 capsule shaped pressure cylinders inside. I measured those (by zooming in and out and using a ruler against my monitor) then worked out the volume of the cylinder with a excel sheet.

For the fuel tanks, I did work on some ideas this morning and emailed some stuff over to Daishi, he's on the other side of the world, so we only really talk early morning or late evening US time. The idea only requires 2 new parts. I know he's been looking at the problem as well, although there are some other packs we want to get out first.

[Legendary Emu]

The first time I looked at this it looked just like Flexrack. I love the textures and stuff but I'm gonna wait until TAC edition is released.

[TurielD]

This is exquisite! I've seen he concept approached before, but this is the best execution I've come across by far.

The TAC integration and a monoprop wedge are what I'm particularly after atm, I'll be watching this with interest!

[CoolBeer]

The TAC integration and a monoprop wedge are what I'm particularly after atm, I'll be watching this with interest!

I did write up a post about how to convert TAC to use liters *LINK*

I did create a few wedges myself I am using in my career save:

-Monoprop one, capacity 100l

-Fuel tank, capacity 100l

-TAC Food/Water, contains 10kg food and 14.5l water.

The monoprop/fuel are based around the RealFuels mod, so you can put almost any fuel you like into them.

I'm guessing for stock fuels you could go for 20 units monoprop(quarter of a FL-R25, minus a little bit since the R25 is bigger) and 10 units liquid fuel/12.2 units oxidiser(Quarter of a FL-T100 minus a little bit, it's probably still a little bit too high(the FL-T100 has almost twice the height)).

I did choose 100l capacity since the wedge has a total capacity of 123 liter and some of it would get eaten up by putting a round tank in a wedge.

The Food is not based on anything in particular, I was unsure how much food would fit into one 14.5l container, so I chose 10kg total(that'd be 3 14.5l containers, as the wedge holds 4 of them).

One thing I did notice while playing with this mod is that it's somewhat easy to unbalance your ship, drain one side of it and it'll start dragging when using RCS(which I suppose is natural), it's not a huge effect, but noticable(It could also be that I placed my RCS jets off balance to the CoM and it's just my imagination kicking in).

-

Kolbjorn

[Daishi]

One thing I did notice while playing with this mod is that it's somewhat easy to unbalance your ship, drain one side of it and it'll start dragging when using RCS(which I suppose is natural), it's not a huge effect, but noticable(It could also be that I placed my RCS jets off balance to the CoM and it's just my imagination kicking in)

Realism! Its a nice thing to consider when setting up launches though. Specially with heavier food and water wedges.

“Loading the late cargo is so exciting and I’m very proud to do this job,†says Patrick. “We all have to be absolutely concentrated on what we’re doing and very precise in all our movements, for several hours at a stretch. Every pack has to go in a pre-designated space on the racks so as to maintain the ATV’s stability during flight..." Source

::desperately flurries to make moar parts::

[Adampeay]

Hey guys I just wanted to say how great of a mod this is. It really makes things a lot neater when I need to bring up resources. Can't wait for the KAS edition. Keep it up.

[Helix935]

whoa that looks amazing!

[CoolBeer]

I was thinking(oh no, not again), wouldn't it be better to reuse the models/textures for similar units(say oxygen and hydrogen wedges) and just have a quad with a separate texture for the label?

-

Kolbjorn

[Daishi]

Hey guys I just wanted to say how great of a mod this is. It really makes things a lot neater when I need to bring up resources. Can't wait for the KAS edition. Keep it up.

whoa that looks amazing!

Thanks guys! Working on co2 equipment now, so as well as a dedicated Hydrogen block, you'll be getting a ECLSS pack soon I'll post development of the parts in the dev thread, and leave Paul to talk about their functions and the balancing when he wakes up.

[Daishi]

I was thinking(oh no, not again), wouldn't it be better to reuse the models/textures for similar units(say oxygen and hydrogen wedges) and just have a quad with a separate texture for the label?

-

Kolbjorn

Well, it would be if we really want to scrimp on RAM, but it would make all the parts look indistinguishable from a distance, and in-game camera clipping would probably make it vanish from a small distance away (depending on how close the label-mesh is to the tank-mesh). I'd love this pack to be both true to life in capacity, and with a realistic visually interesting interior structure. I want to do a quality job

As it stands each texturemap at standard definition (512px) is 630kb, with 2 megs of an in-game RAM footprint. The whole mod with every pack, and unique models and maps for everything, wouldnt take over 50mb ingame. Unless we keep adding more parts

I don't think you should be too worried! When i make the dedicated water part, it'll have a lot more capacity than the current tanks anyway, mainly because the unpressurised container would be able to fill the entire wedge. It'll be a lot heavier than the other cryogenic gaseous wedges (100 litres of usable space, wasnt it?) but thats a caveat of real life supply craft. Water's the heaviest resource. Why it costs $15,000 per 500ml to get into orbit

Edited April 9, 2014 by Daishi

[Boomerang]

Looks great, I'll give the TAC LS pack a try when you release it

[smunisto]

I did create a few wedges myself I am using in my career save:

-Monoprop one, capacity 100l

-Fuel tank, capacity 100l

-TAC Food/Water, contains 10kg food and 14.5l water.

The Food is not based on anything in particular, I was unsure how much food would fit into one 14.5l container, so I chose 10kg total(that'd be 3 14.5l containers, as the wedge holds 4 of them).

Please do share you TAC wedges. I applied your changes to TAC LS, but now need wedges for food and water.

Also - I guess the oxygen in US is balanced as quantity against the other TAC wedges you are using?

[phoenix_ca]

I look forward to seeing the TAC wedges. Would make for some nifty resupply carriers. Small ones...it'd be very hard to justify the increase in parts and consequent physics calculations on any sizeable ships.

Edited April 9, 2014 by phoenix_ca

[Chris_Pi]

I don't think I screwed up the math, But someone might want to double-check...

To add a bit to what CoolBeer said about double-height wedges: Stretching the tanks to twice current length would add 7.238L volume each by reducing the space lost to the spherical endcaps between the stacked wedges. If the pressure gauge/regulator/neat gadget in the bottom half of each wedge can be swapped out for another single-height tank the total added volume is 43.428 liters more than a pair of current wedges. That looks very worthwhile, both from a standpoint of reducing parts count and getting more storage volume by picking the right parts for the job.

ETA: Yep, screwed that up pretty good. Added volume is 3.619 L/tank. Not quite 30 liters extra with a 5th tank added. Not spectacular, But maybe still worthwhile.

Edited April 9, 2014 by Chris_Pi
Corrected complicated math. Removed shoes this time.

[smunisto]

Yeah, the only bad thing with US is that part count. 9 parts for just 1 octo. I am waiting for CoolBeer to share his food/water tanks to test out how much food/water/oxygen can a US octo hold for its total of 9 parts compared to 3 of the 2.5m default resource tanks.

[CoolBeer]

Please do share you TAC wedges. I applied your changes to TAC LS, but now need wedges for food and water.

Also - I guess the oxygen in US is balanced as quantity against the other TAC wedges you are using?

I basically took the hydrogen wedge, copied the cfg a few times and changed name, description and resources.

Here is the files for the stock(monopropellant, liquid fuel/lox and Food/Water): *LINK*

Here is the files for RealFuels(It's the stock files plus a modulemanager file, so modulemanager is needed): *LINK*

Just unzip into the GameData folder, it does not modify the Universal Storage tree(I like to be able to replace it without copying files back and forth).

What do you mean by balanced? It's the same oxygen with the same unit densities, so if you don't ship with a fuel cell(lets say you rely on batteries and solar panels, you can have oxygen for a really long time(The US oxygen tank holds 46234 liters of oxygen, a kerbal(in TAC) uses 304.27 liters per day, which calculates out to about 152 days).

-

Kolbjorn

[CoolBeer]

Yeah, the only bad thing with US is that part count. 9 parts for just 1 octo. I am waiting for CoolBeer to share his food/water tanks to test out how much food/water/oxygen can a US octo hold for its total of 9 parts compared to 3 of the 2.5m default resource tanks.

Do note that the food value I used(10kg) is picked to fit roughly to how long a full water block will last(32.26 days(58 liter capacity / 1.798 liter per day)), 10kg of food will last you 10 kg / 0.317kg per day = 31.55 days. This is a bit screwed up by the 14.5 liter water in the block(around 8 days for a single kerbal), but the fuel cell will also produce some water(no calculations done, it also seem the ModuleGenerator bugs out on water production unless you timewarp due to small numbers(I guess)).

If anyone have any great ideas about how much food is enough/appropriate for the wedge size feel free to comment. (It is also a bit strange storing food outside the pod, as fetching solid food is a bit iffy, I guess you could liquify it, but expiration dates would probably suffer(I suppose you could call it canned food in a way...).

-

Kolbjorn

[Daishi]

If anyone have any great ideas about how much food is enough/appropriate for the wedge size feel free to comment. (It is also a bit strange storing food outside the pod, as fetching solid food is a bit iffy, I guess you could liquify it, but expiration dates would probably suffer(I suppose you could call it canned food in a way...)

Bit of liquid, bit of solid food. I'd imagine its pure dehydrated jerky or something (apparently the tastiest and most nutritionally dense astro-food, or so i've heard). There's a service hatch at the back, so you can access it 'internally' from the octo core. Single pod quad-core flights, sorry, get out if you want a snack

Argh i'm spoiling the release thread with dev thread stuff

Edited April 9, 2014 by Daishi

[Daishi]

For people using our mod with low to medium power machines, what are you finding in regards to partcount before KSP starts lagging? Curious about performance hits here.