Master Thread: Unresponsive Kerbals in EVA

[Claw]

I think I might have got at least a partial bead on what causes this, today. I was out doing preliminary testing on a modified rover design at my usual spot: out in all the pipes and junk by the launchpad, using Rollkage mk2s. A couple times in flip-testing, the Kerbals riding in it got ragdolled, still locked in the command chairs. In this state they were able to do EVA reports and surface samples but not to get out of the chair. I was a bit confused by this so I started trying to do more specific testing, to find out how it was happening.

What I found was this: when it's sitting perfectly on the top, the ground clips into the rollkage just a bit. If it hits just right, it's able to clip through far enough that it JUST hits the top of their heads, which seems to be able to ragdoll them without detaching them at least some of the time. On the attempt where I finally saw what was happing, Hanzor got detached, Kenzor got ragdolled but was still in the chair. When I switched to Hanzor(who was working fine), Kenzor immediately popped out of the chair and ended up standing on top of it...now flagged as Debris.

It's pretty suggestive that this 'ragdolled but still in the chair' state is causing the 'flagged as debris' problem when they subsequently get detached, at least some of the time. It seems like there's some particular set of conditions, or maybe just an intermediate level of force, that ragdolls them but doesn't detach them. I suspect that most rover designs aren't able to manage that just perfect level of almost-protection where they can get hit just hard enough to induce it without taking a subsequent, harder hit that detaches them entirely.

It's only one data point, so it's not conclusive, obviously, but it is interesting.

This matched up slightly with my suspicion that it might be due to the increased joint strength. I'm wondering if the force to ragdoll them is now less than the force to eject them from a seat. Thereby causing what you described, where there's a condition where they get hit hard enough to be "knocked out" but not hard enough to be dislodged.

[Tiron]

This matched up slightly with my suspicion that it might be due to the increased joint strength. I'm wondering if the force to ragdoll them is now less than the force to eject them from a seat. Thereby causing what you described, where there's a condition where they get hit hard enough to be "knocked out" but not hard enough to be dislodged.

Had one a bit ago in testing: both got ragdolled in the chairs, both were debris when they got out. Not sure how it happened that time.

[Lawrence908]

Just ran into this issue tonight. I was doing an EVA with Jebediah, just put the jetpack on and quicksaved. Flew up, didn't slow down enough on the way back down, splat, no worries, loaded the quicksave...and I watch Jeb standing in a T with the jetpack on his back slowly fall to the ground, stiff as a board. Tried re loading several times. I can turn the lights on and off but I can't move him, remove jetpack or anything like that.

I went through this thread and tried altering the file a few times but nothing helped, it seems like most people have this issues with a rover.

This is taken from my original persistent.sfs, I reverted back to my original file before trying any of these fixes because I am thinking I did more damage than help.

The specific section with Jeb, let me know if you need more.

        }
        VESSEL
        {
            pid = 6d2e65b85dfb4a01b1d1f6b55dbbf4ca
            name = Jebediah Kerman
            type = EVA
            sit = LANDED
            landed = True
            landedAt = 
            splashed = False
            met = 291.919993476942
            lct = 5541290.84406628
            root = 0
            lat = 16.5529645828979
            lon = 26.9350973542843
            alt = 1165.18404660912
            hgt = 0.1303848
            nrm = 0.9499683,0.2319087,0.2092333
            rot = 0.1122759,-0.09424398,0.1321363,0.9803327
            CoM = -8.729062E-09,-9.297318E-10,-1.204092E-08
            stg = 0
            prst = False
            ref = 0
            cPch = 
            cHdg = 
            cMod = 0
            ORBIT
            {
                SMA = NaN
                ECC = 1
                INC = NaN
                LPE = 41.599956708065
                LAN = 69.5766681707636
                MNA = -8.40714670366795
                EPH = 5541582.76405976
                REF = 2
            }
            PART
            {
                name = kerbalEVA
                uid = 3442304037
                mid = 2346945375
                parent = 0
                position = 0,0,0
                rotation = 0,0,0,1
                mirror = 1,1,1
                istg = 0
                dstg = 0
                sqor = -1
                sidx = -1
                attm = 0
                srfN = None, -1
                mass = 0.09375
                temp = 0
                expt = 0
                state = 0
                connected = True
                attached = True
                flag = Squad/Flags/default
                rTrf = referenceTransform
                crew = 0
                EVENTS
                {
                }
                ACTIONS
                {
                }
                MODULE
                {
                    name = KerbalEVA
                    isEnabled = True
                    EVENTS
                    {
                        PlantFlag
                        {
                            active = False
                            guiActive = True
                            guiIcon = Plant Flag [1]
                            guiName = Plant Flag [0]
                            category = Plant Flag [1]
                            guiActiveUnfocused = False
                            unfocusedRange = 2
                            externalToEVAOnly = True
                        }
                        MakeReference
                        {
                            active = False
                            guiActive = True
                            guiIcon = Control From Here
                            guiName = Control From Here
                            category = Control From Here
                            guiActiveUnfocused = False
                            unfocusedRange = 2
                            externalToEVAOnly = True
                        }
                        OnDeboardSeat
                        {
                            active = False
                            guiActive = True
                            guiIcon = Leave Seat
                            guiName = Leave Seat
                            category = Leave Seat
                            guiActiveUnfocused = False
                            unfocusedRange = 2
                            externalToEVAOnly = True
                        }
                        RenameVessel
                        {
                            active = False
                            guiActive = True
                            guiIcon = Rename Vessel
                            guiName = Rename Vessel
                            category = Rename Vessel
                            guiActiveUnfocused = False
                            unfocusedRange = 2
                            externalToEVAOnly = True

Thank you so much in advance for any help!

[Claw]

This is taken from my original persistent.sfs, I reverted back to my original file before trying any of these fixes because I am thinking I did more damage than help.

The specific section with Jeb, let me know if you need more.

        }
        VESSEL
        {
            pid = 6d2e65b85dfb4a01b1d1f6b55dbbf4ca
            name = Jebediah Kerman
            type = EVA
            sit = LANDED
            landed = True
            landedAt = 
            splashed = False
            met = 291.919993476942
            lct = 5541290.84406628
            root = 0
            lat = 16.5529645828979
            lon = 26.9350973542843
            alt = 1165.18404660912
            hgt = 0.1303848
            nrm = 0.9499683,0.2319087,0.2092333
            rot = 0.1122759,-0.09424398,0.1321363,0.9803327
            CoM = -8.729062E-09,-9.297318E-10,-1.204092E-08
            stg = 0
            prst = False
            ref = 0
            cPch = 
            cHdg = 
            cMod = 0
            ORBIT
            {
                SMA = NaN
                ECC = 1
                INC = NaN
                LPE = 41.599956708065
                LAN = 69.5766681707636
                MNA = -8.40714670366795
                EPH = 5541582.76405976
                REF = 2
            }
            PART
            {
                name = kerbalEVA
                uid = 3442304037
                mid = 2346945375
                parent = 0
                position = 0,0,0
                rotation = 0,0,0,1
                mirror = 1,1,1
                istg = 0
                dstg = 0
                sqor = -1
                sidx = -1
                attm = 0
                srfN = None, -1
                mass = 0.09375
                temp = 0
                expt = 0
                state = 0
                connected = True
                attached = True
                flag = Squad/Flags/default
                rTrf = referenceTransform
                crew = 0
                EVENTS
                {
                }
                ACTIONS
                {
                }
                MODULE
                {
                    name = KerbalEVA
                    isEnabled = True
                    EVENTS
                    {
                        PlantFlag
                        {
                            active = False
                            guiActive = True
                            guiIcon = Plant Flag [1]
                            guiName = Plant Flag [0]
                            category = Plant Flag [1]
                            guiActiveUnfocused = False
                            unfocusedRange = 2
                            externalToEVAOnly = True
                        }
                        MakeReference
                        {
                            active = False
                            guiActive = True
                            guiIcon = Control From Here
                            guiName = Control From Here
                            category = Control From Here
                            guiActiveUnfocused = False
                            unfocusedRange = 2
                            externalToEVAOnly = True
                        }
                        OnDeboardSeat
                        {
                            active = False
                            guiActive = True
                            guiIcon = Leave Seat
                            guiName = Leave Seat
                            category = Leave Seat
                            guiActiveUnfocused = False
                            unfocusedRange = 2
                            externalToEVAOnly = True
                        }
                        RenameVessel
                        {
                            active = False
                            guiActive = True
                            guiIcon = Rename Vessel
                            guiName = Rename Vessel
                            category = Rename Vessel
                            guiActiveUnfocused = False
                            unfocusedRange = 2
                            externalToEVAOnly = True

Thank you so much in advance for any help!

I'm sorry Jeb is frozen.

Your statement confuses me a little, because it sounds like you copied it from your original persistence file. Is this code block a broken Jeb, or a fixed Jeb? I ask because overall he looks okay.

Make sure you are updated to version 0.23.5.464. Your issue sounds a bit more like what was broken before the hotfix. If you are updated, read on.

There is a block missing from your code that is just after what you posted. It's the vInfo block and looks like this.

					vInfo
					{
						vesselName = Bill Kerman
						vesselType = 9
						rootUId = 1342249348
					}

Make sure his vesselType is 9.

Also, I would recommend editing your quicksave.sfs instead of your persistence.sfs. With the quicksave, you can quickload it. If you edit the persistence, KSP has to be at the menu or it will autosave over the persistence after you edit it.

Edited May 13, 2014 by Claw

[bagbypt]

This problem ruined my game I have tried multiple times fixing this but two moonwalkers on Minmus got all mixed up (Danlong and Camwin Kerman) Camwin breaks as soon as my save file is loaded and I can't for the life of me fix Danlong according to the steps presented here. Any help would be amazing. Note: Posting whole save file for ease and clarity. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24487434/quicksave.sfs

Thanks

[Claw]

This problem ruined my game I have tried multiple times fixing this but two moonwalkers on Minmus got all mixed up (Danlong and Camwin Kerman) Camwin breaks as soon as my save file is loaded and I can't for the life of me fix Danlong according to the steps presented here. Any help would be amazing. Note: Posting whole save file for ease and clarity. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24487434/quicksave.sfs

Thanks

Welcome to the forums!

Thanks for posting the save file. You have the easy fix...

Keep a copy of your quicksave in case of a mistake. Then open it with notepad or some other very simple text editor. I recommend editing your quicksave.sfs, because it's easier to quickload and check it with KSP open in another window.

Go to the end of your file, where the crew listing is. The very end of the file has kerbals you haven't hired yet, so go a little above that.

You are looking for this section:

		CREW
		{
			name = Danlong Kerman
			brave = 0.4985804
			dumb = 0.8804786
			badS = False
			state = 1
			ToD = 6451509.50999685
			[COLOR="#FF0000"]idx = -1[/COLOR]
		}
		CREW
		{
			name = Shelvin Kerman
			brave = 0.3672598
			dumb = 0.06527674
			badS = False
			state = 1
			ToD = 4543614.48291874
			idx = 1
		}
		CREW
		{
			name = Camwin Kerman
			brave = 0.6407303
			dumb = 0.6080619
			badS = True
			state = 1
			ToD = 4407195.47947788
			[COLOR="#FF0000"]idx = -1[/COLOR]

You need to change the highlighted red parts. It should say "idx = 0" instead of "idx = -1". Save the file, then quickload. Camwin will probably still fall down (into ragdoll state), but he'll get up again.

Let me know if that doesn't work. Good luck!

-Claw

[bagbypt]

Wow thank you for the quick response! Unfortunately changing the idx values did not fix either of them. It seems that this magical "vInfo" section isn't even there for either Danlong or Camwin (again as soon as I load it Camwin immediately breaks as I have checked the persistent file after closing the game). I would like to think I'm rather computer savvy so this is frustrating being a novice coder myself . Would you mind pointing out where this section belongs?

[Claw]

Wow thank you for the quick response! Unfortunately changing the idx values did not fix either of them. It seems that this magical "vInfo" section isn't even there for either Danlong or Camwin (again as soon as I load it Camwin immediately breaks as I have checked the persistent file after closing the game). I would like to think I'm rather computer savvy so this is frustrating being a novice coder myself . Would you mind pointing out where this section belongs?

Sorry for the delayed response back.

There will only be a vInfo section under certain circumstances. Camwin does have a vInfo section.

					ACTIONS
					{
					}
					vInfo
					{
						vesselName = Camwin Kerman
						vesselType = 9
						rootUId = 2072884961
					}

This section belongs at the end of the kerbal's VESSEL structure (right after ACTIONS). Danlong doesn't have a vInfo section, but I also didn't need to create one for him.

I'm not sure why fixing the idx didn't work for you. I was able to quickload and your guys were fixed. Really, the rest of their vessel structure looks fine too. That makes me suspicious of your KSP version.

Make sure you have version 0.23.5.464. There was a bug with the first release (version 0.23.5.459) which caused the poor guys to not recover. You can check your version number by going to your KSP directory and opening the buildID.txt file. It should look something like this inside:

build id = 464
2014-04-01_17-03-49
Branch: master

[bagbypt]

Sorry for the delayed response back.

There will only be a vInfo section under certain circumstances. Camwin does have a vInfo section.

                    ACTIONS
                    {
                    }
                    vInfo
                    {
                        vesselName = Camwin Kerman
                        vesselType = 9
                        rootUId = 2072884961
                    }

This section belongs at the end of the kerbal's VESSEL structure (right after ACTIONS). Danlong doesn't have a vInfo section, but I also didn't need to create one for him.

I'm not sure why fixing the idx didn't work for you. I was able to quickload and your guys were fixed. Really, the rest of their vessel structure looks fine too. That makes me suspicious of your KSP version.

Make sure you have version 0.23.5.464. There was a bug with the first release (version 0.23.5.459) which caused the poor guys to not recover. You can check your version number by going to your KSP directory and opening the buildID.txt file. It should look something like this inside:

build id = 464
2014-04-01_17-03-49
Branch: master

Claw you sir are my best friend all better now

[mike9606]

2 of my kerbals got classified as debris after I was forced to eject them out of a rover's command seats. I have tried everything except looking at the flightstate section with the vessel stuff as I can't find it I'll upload the persistent.sfs to see if anybody else can fix it. The kerbals' names are Lubo Kerman and Billy-Bobvey Kerman. Download: https://www.dropbox.com/s/g6u1qu7nyermsvz/persistent.sfs

[mike9606]

Is anybody going to help me with this at all?

[Claw]

Is anybody going to help me with this at all?

Oh I'm sorry. I missed this post yesterday. Give me a few minutes to have a look.

[Claw]

You should be able to find the correct section by either searching for "FiFi Debris" or by searching for each "pid" listed below in the code. I was unable to confirm this is all you need to fix since you have mods in your save file. However, the rest of it looks okay.

Okay. Here is what you need to fix for Lubo.

First, look for this section...

		VESSEL
		{
			pid = f2185864c6b14dc1af62dd4aecd64ad9
			name = FiFi Debris
			type = Debris
			sit = LANDED

You need to change it to look like this.

		VESSEL
		{
			pid = f2185864c6b14dc1af62dd4aecd64ad9
			name = [COLOR="#FF0000"]Lubo Kerbin[/COLOR]
			type = [COLOR="#FF0000"]EVA[/COLOR]
			sit = LANDED

Then for Billy-Bobvey, pretty much the same thing...

		VESSEL
		{
			pid = e0987d5baa25497ba732efabeb5c9382
			name = FiFi Debris
			type = Debris
			sit = LANDED

to...

		VESSEL
		{
			pid = e0987d5baa25497ba732efabeb5c9382
			name = [COLOR="#FF0000"]Billy-Bobvey Kerman[/COLOR]
			type = [COLOR="#FF0000"]EVA[/COLOR]
			sit = LANDED

Please remember, EVA must be in all capitals. Make a copy of your persistence and quicksave file before hand. I recommend editing the quicksave file since that will be easier to check and see if it worked.

Edited May 25, 2014 by Claw

[mike9606]

That fixed the problem. Thanks for the help!

[Claw]

That fixed the problem. Thanks for the help!

No problem. Sorry I missed your post earlier.

[EeeLee]

This is great! I had old Bob slumped over the controls of his mun rover, after performing a couple of unintentional somersaults. Even sent another man to set up a flag in his honor. Needless to say, I didnt quite like having an undead Bob sitting there on that mun mountain, staring from his undead eyes.

Thanks to your help he finally and magically awoke from coma, tore down his own memorial plaque and flew home.

[Claw]

This is great! I had old Bob slumped over the controls of his mun rover, after performing a couple of unintentional somersaults. Even sent another man to set up a flag in his honor. Needless to say, I didnt quite like having an undead Bob sitting there on that mun mountain, staring from his undead eyes.

Thanks to your help he finally and magically awoke from coma, tore down his own memorial plaque and flew home.

That last picture is really freaky. Glad you got him back safely!

[IceAgent]

Im having an issue too, not the same as the listed ones. My kerbal seems to be wedged inbetween a wing and a fuel tank on the Mun he isint in ragdoll mode. hes in a falling position and i cant activate the jetpack. Any help?

[Claw]

Im having an issue too, not the same as the listed ones. My kerbal seems to be wedged inbetween a wing and a fuel tank on the Mun he isint in ragdoll mode. hes in a falling position and i cant activate the jetpack. Any help?

Hmm, sounds like he's just stuck between parts and not glitched frozen.

The fix will depend on what kinds of things you consider "cheating." Or if your goal is simply to get him out.

If you haven't already tried, you can also attempt to mash down on the movement keys and keep jumping. If you can get him to hop up slightly, then press R really quick to get his jetpack out. It might take a lot of button mashing.

If that doesn't work, you can...

- Edit the save file (keep a copy first). Open the file with notepad and go to your kerbal's section. Change the third or fourth decimal place a little of either his latitude or longitude and that should put him a few meters from the ship.

- Ram into the ship with something to break off parts until you can get him out.

- Hack Gravity (Press ALT+F12, then click on the "Hack Gravity" button). You might have to jiggle your ship around a little to get him to pop out.

[mLuby]

So Jedvis rolled his rover, bumped his head, and is now standing a few feet away from the command seat in a vegetative state. In the tracking station he shows up as "Mun Rover IV Debris".

I went to saves\my-save\persistent.sfs and quicksave.sfs to look for "Jedvis" and "Mun Rover IV Debris" and didn't find anything. In fact, those files don't show any ships I launched in the last week. Also, they're the only two files in my-save directory – it sounds like there are other things that should be there. But my game has no problems loading or flying this nonexistent ships, so they must be stored somewhere else.

Any ideas about what's going on, and where I can look for Jedvis's data? I'm running 23.5.464.

[Claw]

So Jedvis rolled his rover, bumped his head, and is now standing a few feet away from the command seat in a vegetative state. In the tracking station he shows up as "Mun Rover IV Debris".

Okay, so if he isn't attached to the command seat, then generally you want to use the "If your kerbal is frozen in the T-pose, but unattached to anything" section of the OP. The game still bugs out in v0.23.5.464 when crashing a rover.

If you are able to load the game and he's showing up as "Mun Rover IV Debris" then that's what you want to search for in the save file (like you said). I would recommend doing a quicksave and editing that file rather than the persistent, plus that will ensure the quicksave is up to date. Once you do your new quicksave.sfs, check the timestamp on the file to make sure it is the one that updated. Keep a copy of both those files before you start messing with them.

If you can't find anything labeled with that name, then please make sure you are looking at the correct save file location. Any ship that is in-flight is stored in the save files and nowhere else (unless you have mods that change that). (It also dawns on me to ask if you are a steam user?)

Once you find your guy, I'm pretty confident that one of these two fixes will do it for you. If you are having a problem, feel free to put your save file up on a file sharing site and link it here. I'll try and take a look. Please let me know if you have mods and where your guys are stranded. It make it easier to dig through the file.

Good luck.

-Claw

I saw your other post. If you somehow bumped him out of the command seat after the crash with another kerbal, then you may have a slightly different problem. If you can, please describe a little how the whole thing happened.

Cheers

Edited July 3, 2014 by Claw

[TheScienceGuy120]

stuck in ragdoll eva mode in orbit :/ cant fix...help

[Claw]

stuck in ragdoll eva mode in orbit :/ cant fix...help

Well, this sounds a bit different than usual. Please make sure you have the most recent version of KSP (0.23.5.464).

You might also need to post your broken kerbal's vessel structure from your save file (looks like the section in the op).

For kerbals in orbit, they should still be "type = EVA" but the situation should be "sit = ORBITING". Also, if you scroll further down to where it says KerbalEVA, the state should be "state = Idle (Floating)"

Other than that, I'll need to see your kerbal's save file structure.

[Ringkeeper]

had also a frozen Kerbal , the save game edit didn't help.

The kerbal fell from a vehicle that drove away underneath him. So i thought he got stuck in the ground which was the case. i had to edit the line:

VESSEL
		{
			pid = e38083bcc25c40f2acdf16c3b55874b6
			name = Tom Kerman
			type = EVA
			sit = SUB_ORBITAL
			landed = False
			landedAt = 
			splashed = False
			met = 511.800000476534
			lct = 847284.747638996
			root = 0
			lat = -36.0956503811178
			lon = -232.940328659412
			[B]alt = [/B]4233.89066030379

to 1 meter higher and the kerbal was free again.

[Claw]

...

i had to edit the line ... to 1 meter higher and the kerbal was free again.

Oh, thanks for the extra info!

I'm actually surprised your guy didn't disappear. This seems to be slightly different, as the game is listing him on a suborbital trajectory (instead of landed).

When I get a chance, I will add this to the main post.

Thanks again!