Allow storing of experiment data in unmanned pods

[daniu]

It's possible to take data from an experiment module and store it in a manned command module in EVA.

However, it's not possible to store data in an automated one (OKTO etc); I think it should be.

This would allow to have a reuseable lander, refueled in orbit, which sends back science results in minimal drone crafts.

Or maybe add separate data storage parts (with a certain Mit capacity).

[Tery215]

This could work, but, theoretically, the probe cores are full of that commandy stuff and reaction wheels while manned modules aren't.

Storing Data in an empty box that can only hold so much paper and mystery goo and sand from beyond our world would be perfectly logical.

[BudgetHedgehog]

I don't think it should be.. imagine a real life probe - once it does experiments, it can't move the data to the core. It's a probe. It has no hands.

"Fair enough," you say. "Then kerbals on EVA should be able to pick up data and put it in the core themselves". First off, if you have a kerbal, he can store data in his suit anyway. Second, where do you suggest they store Mun rocks on the probe core? Yes, I know that in game, it's just an empty box, but realistically, it'd be filled with controlling stuff with no space for storing data. And before anyone says "hard to consider reality in a game with 3' high green humanoids", I like KSP to have some grounding in basic physics.

However, I do like the suggestion of a dedicated data storage part. That's at least realistic and doable.

[Crush]

I don't think it should be.. imagine a real life probe - once it does experiments, it can't move the data to the core. It's a probe. It has no hands.

Actually, there were real-life unmanned probes which returned surface samples from the moon and there are plans to do the same thing from Mars.

[r4pt0r]

ive always been a supporter of this. plus being able to transmit suface samples from an unmanned rover would be awesome and give rovers more use.

[BudgetHedgehog]

Actually, there were real-life unmanned probes which returned surface samples from the moon and there are plans to do the same thing from Mars.

Well obviously, if a probe could take a surface sample, it'd have some way of storing it that isn't in the command core. But the point is, the stock game does not support surface samples for probes and there's still the problem of where to store surface samples it's been given. Kerbals stuff the Mun dirt in their pockets and put them in a cubby hole in the pod.. there's no place for a probe to store surface samples (unless, as I said, it actually had a surface sampler but it doesn't).

[r4pt0r]

Well obviously, if a probe could take a surface sample, it'd have some way of storing it that isn't in the command core. But the point is, the stock game does not support surface samples for probes and there's still the problem of where to store surface samples it's been given. Kerbals stuff the Mun dirt in their pockets and put them in a cubby hole in the pod.. there's no place for a probe to store surface samples (unless, as I said, it actually had a surface sampler but it doesn't).

thats true. ive always thought that the design of the radial kethane drills would be an excellent analoge for unmanned sample taking. those probes in the links only grabbed a few pounds of rock/dust anyway

Edited April 7, 2014 by r4pt0r

[UberFuber]

This might be a good suggestion for something like a science material storage container.

[BudgetHedgehog]

thats true. ive always thought that the design of the radial kethane drills would be an excellent analoge for unmanned sample taking. those probes in the links only grabbed a few pounds of rock/dust anyway

There's a few mods that have a probe surface sampler. DMagic (which I prefer), Robau's Science Revisited, Rover Science and probably a few others..

This might be a good suggestion for something like a science material storage container.

There's mods for that, but I wouldn't mind it being added to stock, for sure.

Edited April 7, 2014 by ObsessedWithKSP
Added link to data storage mod

[Kasuha]

Probe cores are computers, they could be equipped with some extra memory to hold experiment data. The idea is that it would help if it was not necessary to return 10 goo canisters and material bays safely to Kerbin in order to deliver data recorded by them.

Eventually a separate unit that would be able to collect data from all parts currently connected to the ship could be added.

[daniu]

There's mods for that, but I wouldn't mind it being added to stock, for sure.

I found that too after I made the thread, exactly what I was looking for/suggesting.

Expanding on the theme, Mits could actually be a resource (data storage space).

Command pods would have a limit on how many experiments they could store, and you'd need to add those additional containers to be able to bring all the data back if you collect too much.

Don't know if that would be an improvement to gameplay though.... just one more thing you can mess up

However, there's always the discussion whether the retrieved Goo/Materials are data or physical items.

This could be differentiated, and you could use different space resources to return them; which would give the MPL another use, namely transforming physical into data you can return easier.

[Random Tank]

Baha parts for Extraplanetary Launchpads adds a Surface Sample Drill (that looks really awesome) that is really useful for rovers... But I still wish probes were more useful; ATM they just miss out on science...

I wish there was probe reports; and an unmanned Science Lab (it's really useful for probes, but the fact that it's manned means you kinda need to return it, which basically nullifies the point of having one (and a probe for that matter)...

[Tery215]

Probe cores are computers, they could be equipped with some extra memory to hold experiment data. The idea is that it would help if it was not necessary to return 10 goo canisters and material bays safely to Kerbin in order to deliver data recorded by them.

Eventually a separate unit that would be able to collect data from all parts currently connected to the ship could be added.

Wouldn't that just return the same (almost exact) data that one can return via transmission?

[Kasuha]

Wouldn't that just return the same (almost exact) data that one can return via transmission?

Good point.

[daniu]

Wouldn't that just return the same (almost exact) data that one can return via transmission?

That is my main complaint about the current science system anyway.

Why would it matter if I send temperature data back to Kerbin or take the thermometer there? Or pressure, or graviton radiation, or seismic activity?

I can see it makes sense from a gameplay point, but it's kind of weak.

Different with Surface Samples, Goo and Materials.

It would probably make most sense if you couldn't "transmit" those at all if you don't have an MPL (which could transfer the stuff to data like I said earlier).

The other science experiments should just give the same science either way; maybe less than now to not have too easy a time collecting science with low-tier science equipment on a fire-and-forget drone...

but it would allow to get into mid-tier tech by doing fly-bys, and then forces you to do landings and retrievals or establish a space lab if you want to advance further.

[Kasuha]

Why would it matter if I send temperature data back to Kerbin or take the thermometer there? Or pressure, or graviton radiation, or seismic activity?

From gameplay point of view: it's your reward for going the extra mile.

From roleplay point of view: they're analog devices and sending scanned data in low resolution provides less value than delivering the record to laboratory for detailed analysis.

[daniu]

From gameplay point of view: it's your reward for going the extra mile.

Yes, of course, I understand that entirely.

From roleplay point of view: they're analog devices and sending scanned data in low resolution provides less value than delivering the record to laboratory for detailed analysis.

That would require a very Steampunk technology thermometer.

Safe to assume it's already being digitized on "Log temperature", nothing else makes sense - it's not like the thermometer will write a line on a piece of paper (i.e. analog), and scan that in low resolution when transmitting, while you can scan it better at home.

However, if you do argue it's done analog, I'd prefer handling it like the Goo in my previous post; recover or no data at all until processed.

Maybe have digital instruments for the same data in later tech nodes which don't need that anymore.

[UberFuber]

Yes, of course, I understand that entirely.

That would require a very Steampunk technology thermometer.

Safe to assume it's already being digitized on "Log temperature", nothing else makes sense - it's not like the thermometer will write a line on a piece of paper (i.e. analog), and scan that in low resolution when transmitting, while you can scan it better at home.

However, if you do argue it's done analog, I'd prefer handling it like the Goo in my previous post; recover or no data at all until processed.

Maybe have digital instruments for the same data in later tech nodes which don't need that anymore.

A possible system design that results in such a system.

An assumption: Kerbal's ADC converter (analog to digital converter) are very low in resolution such that, for example with temperature, it can only distinguish temperatures in ranges of 10 degCs (for example, the converter can only recognized that a temperature reading is between 10~20 degC, and cannot distinguish between 12 degC and 18 degC).

So how can an analog system do better?

The design is that the temperature measurement is tied to a drawing needle that's in contact with the drum (for description purposes, assume the drum/cylinder is oriented vertically). The drum is not turning, so the temperature gauge movement just draws a solid lines vertically on the drum. When a measurement is logged, the drum turns a bit, tracing out a short horizontal line indicating the temperature at the time before stopping. Future temperature gauge movement will result in a solid vertical line at the end of the horizontal line.

The end result is that the drum will look like it has a very tall 'H' drawn onto it, with the horizontal line indicating the temperature when the measurement happen.

This system would explain why it would result in more "science" when the actual thermometer is observed versus transmitting the data (the ADC converter cannot covert that analog signal with maximum precision).

[LethalDose]

I'd simply prefer to see a separate mechanic that allows data to be stored in CMs, probe cores, and new parts (e.g. a data bank), limited by Mits (already in the game).

PS hope 6 wks doesn't count as a "necro".

[Vaporized Steel]

It is just remotely possible that the OP ment storing science samples onboard a unmanned vessel. Although his exact request asked for storing in the "command pod"

I'm pretty sure we can recorrect the language mistake by changing the question to "I want a way to store samples onboard a unmanned vessel" and the possibilities hence forth are much greater.

All squad has to do is add a robotic arm and a sample storage container.

In fact I believe there are some IRL plans on the drawing board by robotically taking martian surface samples and return them to earth. Obviously it won't be stored in the electric computer casing (probe core) of the vessel but in a seperate storage container.