GoSlash27 Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Shameless battery- hogging (I didn't build it for this challenge), but another confirmation that simpler is better:FWIW it seems that there is an ideal wing area to mass ratio and drag seems to be the most critical factor.Best,-Slashy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSlash27 Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Just out of curiosity, what's the record for a single stage with no horizontal control surfaces? I'm up to 875@29,500 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenhon Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Just found this topic, thought I'd share my SSTO Going to keep tweaking it, but as of right now it barely made itsmall control surfaces are both locked from the vabtake off by retracting the rear gear which gives upward pitchanyone got some tips about optimal ascent path? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziv Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Just found this topic, thought I'd share my SSTO Going to keep tweaking it, but as of right now it barely made itsmall control surfaces are both locked from the vabtake off by retracting the rear gear which gives upward pitchanyone got some tips about optimal ascent path?http://i.imgur.com/MeyC2yX.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/RfGhrYP.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/E2ovy9r.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/NDDPGzC.pngcan you please share pictures about the plane itself? We can't really see it on those dark pictures... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damaske Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 I have taken on this challange with my Ion powered Moth. I am currently live streaming my flight right now just took off and made a westward turn. http://www.twitch.tv/damaske Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenhon Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Is infiniglide always a thing with control surfaces, or is it just flapping?Been reading around and now I feel like just using them is dirtymy flight profile is accel to ~50m/s off the runway then put the nose at about 23-24 degrees up and let it go occasionally dropping the nose down to correct for kerbal rotation increasing the AoAcan you please share pictures about the plane itself? We can't really see it on those dark pictures...sorry, was trying for that predawn take off, also does this forum not have spoilers? :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenhon Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Almost replicated but I overshot apoapsis and ran out of xenon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zarakon Posted August 5, 2014 Author Share Posted August 5, 2014 Is infiniglide always a thing with control surfaces, or is it just flapping?Been reading around and now I feel like just using them is dirtyI think GoSlash27 figured out a bit about the differences between control surfaces (even when locked) and wings in the Eve SSTO challenge threadI don't remember exactly, but I think the gist of it was:1. Control surfaces provide far more lift per mass than wings2. Control surfaces either don't suffer from drag, or might sometimes have negative drag? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenhon Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 where is line for battery spam?I have 10 right now with none of them really clipped into each other but they are clipped into the airframe to keep the look sleekI don't really need most of them I guess, if I could some clarification I'll remove some and alter my launch time accordinglyanything I need to change submit for the leader board? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zarakon Posted August 5, 2014 Author Share Posted August 5, 2014 Eh, I think it's fine. I mostly just didn't want to see people running purely on battery power with hundreds of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenhon Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Yea I was just trying to avoid having to spam more solar panels to compensate for the sunlight angle loss that happens occasionally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSlash27 Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Zarakon, Simply having horizontal control surfaces is enough to give you some infiniglide advantage, whether they are locked or not. It is as you said; drag becomes thrust whenever the AoA is greater than zero. Also FWIW it's cheaper in terms of real-estate to carry solar panels instead of batteries for the flight duration required to reach Kerbin orbit.Best,-Slashy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damaske Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Moth Failed to reach orbit, but the design was very solid and glides really well. It did not gain speed even with flapping the controls. I had a large pair of controls surfaces for pitch, a set of two (four total) small control surfaces for roll, and a pair of vertical small control surfaces for yaw. All batteries were part of the fuselage, as with the Xenon tanks. Sadly I ran out of Xenon on both attempts of orbital flights, But however glided back to KSC ++ both times for somewhat bouncy landings. Well post pictures here once i get some dinner, Been streaming for a while and belly demands food! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenhon Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 After spending hours trying to make a non control surface ssto, I gave up andremade my ion ssto as a 5 engine and got into 71x73 orbit with 522dv leftheh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenhon Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Different flight profile furnished 106x97.5 with 937dvRe-entry burned by the crater and attempted to return to kschit the atmosphere and pretty much immediately "fell" into a endless summersault that i ended up having activate most of the control surfaces in order to break outended up using up the xenon on the way back to ksconly to summersault out of control right in front of the runway and drift sideways until it crateredAnd I think is a fitting end to my ion ssto fiddling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mesklin Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 (edited) Pure Ion SSTO with dV 4800 m/s on LKO, TWR on Kerbin orbit is 0.36. I think this device can make round-trip to Dune with landing. I am going to check it in the nearest future.Javascript is disabled. View full album Edited August 7, 2014 by Mesklin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKutKu Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Oh my god! An ion ssto! Have you tried it on Eve? Maybe it can works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laie Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Oh my god! An ion ssto! Have you tried it on Eve? Maybe it can works.Uh-oh...This is a spin-off of another challenge: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/85196-Eve-SSTO-is-impossible%21Important point: your craft may have no control surfaces (rudders &c). One quirk of KSP is that control surfaces create thrust. It's possible to get to space just by flapping your rudders. Even if you don't abuse it to that degree, they will help with propelling your craft by their sheer presence alone. This challenge is about doing it without control surfaces... and so far, noone has succeeded even on Kerbin, much less on Eve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mesklin Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Oh my god! An ion ssto! Have you tried it on Eve? Maybe it can works.Nop, this device can not ascend from Eve, to density atmosphere, long trip through low atmosphere on Eve will burn all xenon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mesklin Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 One quirk of KSP is that control surfaces create thrust On my craft all control surfaces are off. But another one trick from control surfaces I used: control surfaces are producing lifting forces with any angles of attack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fengist Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 I can tell you guys this much. For my attempt which got me to the Mun and Minmus, I launched in the afternoon then turned and headed west. It was the only way I could keep the solar cells pointed the right way. Once I got out of the atmosphere I was able to open the secondary solar panels which were able to turn and face backward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laie Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 (edited) Yes, a few findings should probably be listed on the front page, so not everyone runs into the same dead ends.don't bother with batteries. you can't carry enough to make a difference anyway.bring solar panels instead. With some tilting, about 20 per engine should suffice during your flight (you need ~12/engine under ideal conditions).go west. follow the sun.start in the afternoon. you'll go slow at first, but eventually you'll be so fast that you outrun the sun.this will take a while, like 1-2 hours. Edited August 8, 2014 by Laie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mesklin Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 I redesigned my last craft , pure ion SSTO, now it is device looks like normal plane, but less dV on board after reaching orbit (4100-4400 m/s). Can easily make round-trip to Mun, Minmus, Dune (this thing is too good glider on Dune, really), Gilly, possibly to Bop and Pol.Mass - 0,74 tDetails -120Javascript is disabled. View full album Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadSpecs Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 (edited) This ugly thing can get into orbit in under 25 minutes using multiple stages for a high average t/w. The best I've managed so far is 23:10 approximately.Javascript is disabled. View full albumHere is a much simpler and slower ion ship, but it's an ssto, and it is still capable of reaching orbit in under 30 minutes.Javascript is disabled. View full album Edited August 10, 2014 by BadSpecs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakky Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I made orbit using a SSTO ion craft flown with FAR and otherwise all stock. Here's a link to post about the flight: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/85728-Ion-glider-collier-trophy%21?p=1343570&viewfull=1#post1343570Here's a screen grab of the craft in SPH showing design and stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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