Alternative to chemical engines --- warp?

[TeeGee]

Hi everyone,

Quick discussion:

If humans mastered warping spacetime, we could theoretically get rid of chemical rockets for good. Instead of blasting off into space, we could just warp spacetime around a craft and leave the planet without firing one single thruster.

Are there any side effects to the planet that we could theorize about if spacecraft technology used alcubierre drives to reach LEO? Would the warp bubbles contain atmosphere from the planet and release that into space (once LEO is obtained)?

If we mastered warp, would we need RCS for orientation in space due? We could create a high "mass" deformity outside the craft which would force the ship to fall into the gravity well which would thus cause the craft to turn... right?

[Streetwind]

Or you could just, you know, use reaction wheels...

[DerpenWolf]

How much have you read on how the drive would theoretically work? From what I've seen it dosen't actually change your realitie velocity so you still need an engine of some type to slow down or speed up once you get to your destination.

[Comrade Jenkens]

The first replacements for chemical rockets will be Nuclear rockets. Much more efficient.

If fusion power can be got working then it provides an even more efficient replacement for chemical rockets.

[Rakaydos]

The problem with warp is that it doesnt provide siderial velocity. Sure, you might be able to get over 100 KM over the surface, but you're still moving at surface velocities.

[jfull]

I really, really don't want to see a warp drive activated in close proximity to the earth, much less in atmosphere. Even if the warp effect itself doesn't have any effect on the planet, the ship's power source would have to be some kind of fusion or antimatter reactor, which could cause massive destruction if it failed.

[TeeGee]

Or you could just, you know, use reaction wheels...

Is that possible? How would we generate forward momentum and not fulcrum rotation?

[jfull]

Is that possible? How would we generate forward momentum and not fulcrum rotation?

I think he meant that in response to your question about whether a warp ship would need RCS to turn. He's just suggesting reaction wheels as an alternative to RCS.

[Mazon Del]

The alcubierre warp drive is most certainly NOT something you want to actually activate in an atmosphere. At least at full power. In theory you may be able to sort of ever so slightly turn up the power knob to get som effect, maybe.

But actual full activation would be devastating to quite a large area around. The area in front of the craft is being crushed down, all that atmosphere is being sucked in, ripped apart, converted into gamma rays. Not a pretty sight for nearby flesh people.

The space behind it...frankly I'm not certain anyone is sure what that would do to solid (or even Earth Atmosphere level gasses) but you can probably assume it would not be good.

One thing a lot of people are missing though, is that this actually DOES give you an advantage (if you can avoid the devastation), because you no longer need to lift your craft up to an airless environment. This results in a tremendous savings in fuel. So you would still need to burn fuel in order to circularize your orbit, but you'd have to use (and carry) much less.

[lajoswinkler]

Dude. Warp engine is a fantasy from a TV show. There is nothing but a feeble hypothesis behind it, and an infinite mountain of difficulties. For god sake, why is everyone taking it so seriously? TV show, people. Just a TV show.

[TheGatesofLogic]

no, not possible. The warp bubble would instantly destabilize in earth atmosphere. Also, velocity would not be conserved by a warp drive, but would rather be a function of the curvature of space-time over the course of the journey.

[jfull]

Dude. Warp engine is a fantasy from a TV show. There is nothing but a feeble hypothesis behind it, and an infinite mountain of difficulties. For god sake, why is everyone taking it so seriously? TV show, people. Just a TV show.

It is a very hypothetical concept, but its not as if Star Trek or other sci-fi series invented the idea or its principles.

Its based on some of the principles of general relativity, and some real world research is being done into it.

[R0cketC0der]

Disregarding the problems of the atmosphere, it would actually be possible to circularize using it. First you need to warp straight up and let yourself fall straight down until you reach the speed a circular orbit would take at the desired altitude. Then you warp to a point where that velocity goes horizontal instead of vertical to circularize.

[lajoswinkler]

It is a very hypothetical concept, but its not as if Star Trek or other sci-fi series invented the idea or its principles.

Its based on some of the principles of general relativity, and some real world research is being done into it.

Yeah, people have done some research on travelling through wormholes, but wormhole lore doesn't have fancy ships, nice captains and big tit female aliens, so nobody talks about those.

[jfull]

Yeah, people have done some research on travelling through wormholes, but wormhole lore doesn't have fancy ships, nice captains and big tit female aliens, so nobody talks about those.

Are you... angry about something? You seem very harsh about this subject

[KvickFlygarn87]

Dude. Warp engine is a fantasy from a TV show. There is nothing but a feeble hypothesis behind it, and an infinite mountain of difficulties. For god sake, why is everyone taking it so seriously? TV show, people. Just a TV show.

DUDE. It's based on science. It could THEORETICALLY WORK!

[TinfoilChef]

Yeah, people have done some research on travelling through wormholes, but wormhole lore doesn't have fancy ships, nice captains and big tit female aliens, so nobody talks about those.

Apparently you've not seen Stargate SG-1.

That said, it may take a long time to realize any practical applications but there is actual theoretical work being done on a number of possible forms of FTL drives.

[Scotius]

It's like this: Einstein says "FTL? No. No way. Period." Which equals sad humanity pretty much chained to our solar system. Alcubierre and White say:"FTL? Hmm, maybe. Difficult, but there might be a way." Which equals hope for the future. It's all about hope, really

[lajoswinkler]

Are you... angry about something? You seem very harsh about this subject

I should use more smiley faces. I'm not angry, lol.

[TheGatesofLogic]

Disregarding the problems of the atmosphere, it would actually be possible to circularize using it. First you need to warp straight up and let yourself fall straight down until you reach the speed a circular orbit would take at the desired altitude. Then you warp to a point where that velocity goes horizontal instead of vertical to circularize.

This exactly why I posted earlier. The Alcubierre drive has many interesting effects upon exiting the warp bubble, however one of them is NOT equal relative velocity. Like I said before the velocity upon exit of the warp bubble is a function of the curvature of spacetime over the extent of the transition.

[Rakaydos]

This exactly why I posted earlier. The Alcubierre drive has many interesting effects upon exiting the warp bubble, however one of them is NOT equal relative velocity. Like I said before the velocity upon exit of the warp bubble is a function of the curvature of spacetime over the extent of the transition.

So is it possible to warp out of a gravity well when you dont have escape velocity to start with?

[Dodgey]

As I understand it, it allows you to change your position in space without changing your velocity. Say you were travelling away from an object at 20m/s and you warp closer to it, once you exit the warp bubble you are still travelling away from it at 20m/s.

[Kaezan]

To non-believers:

http://io9.com/5963263/how-nasa-will-build-its-very-first-warp-drive

(im going to read this pdf now)

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20110015936.pdf

[Nibb31]

The term "warp drive" comes from Star Trek. It's based on fictional magic, not science.

There are some vague hypothetical concepts about something called an Albucierre drive. Some clever scientists related this to the fictional Star Trek term "warp" in order to catch the imagination of the ignorant public, which is always better when you are looking for funding. However, it's still just a hypothetical idea that may or may not be feasible. At any rate, it requires materials and energy levels that probably won't be available before decades or centuries, if ever.

At any rate, debating its practical capabilities makes no sense, because we have no idea if it is feasible or what its properties would be. It's still just fictional.

[Scotius]

Y'know, in XIX century idea of heavier-than-air flying machine was theoretical too. I we read somewhere about famous French mathematician, who conclusively proved (on paper of course) such machine will never actively fly. Good thing Wright brothers never read his publication. As of now, math says "Maybe" - rest is left to human inguenity.