Sandbox or Career?

[Tw1]

For anyone that hasn't been so hot on career, will you be giving it another chance with the changes due in 0.24?

Maybe briefly. The real problem I find with career is that science, which should provide you will a lot of things to do, is just a click and collect mechanism. When you read about all the clever things real life space missions do, with spectrometers, and mapping a planet via gravitational anomaly. Actually building up data and measuring things...

KSP's science mechanism seems limited and boring.

I hope some of the more fancy stuff that was planed early on like cryovolcanoes, etc, one day comes through.

[phoenix_ca]

Maybe briefly. The real problem I find with career is that science, which should provide you will a lot of things to do, is just a click and collect mechanism. When you read about all the clever things real life space missions do, with spectrometers, and mapping a planet via gravitational anomaly. Actually building up data and measuring things...

KSP's science mechanism seems limited and boring.

I hope some of the more fancy stuff that was planed early on like cryovolcanoes, etc, one day comes through.

That's certainly the main problem with it. While I really like that parts get unlocked progressively, the science collection feels very much like a memorpeger (MMORPG), and that's a horrible way to do things, especially in a single-player game. I'm actually using MM right now to change that, so that all experiments give 100% of their scienceCap on their first use (seriously just clicking, transmitting, repeating, and then doing a return anyway is boring), and they either transmit 100%, or they require a sample return. It makes things more interesting, since there's an actual decision to be made when constructing a probe, instead of just spamming all the things.

[Pecan]

@ Rowsdower - yes, I'll be trying career mode again in 0.24. My main interest in KSP is probably still going to be sandbox 'my way' but adding structure and logical progression to 'the official way' will always make it more interesting. It's one of those simulator/game things - if you just want to experiment and provide your own structure you'll use sandbox, if you want to 'win the official game' you'll go for career mode. As someone has said - some people want instructions for 'a' kit with their Lego, others just want to use their imagination and aren't so interested in what you're "meant" to do. Career mode development is definitely welcome and should help sell the game but it would be a liability if people thought that was all there was to it, however complex it gets.

[Biff Space]

I've only been playing for 3 weeks, and I've used sandbox for my main game. I tried career, but the science collecting felt grindy, and there was no way to lose, and I got better 'progression' from learning how to put together stable rockets, how to set up transfers, how to land on moons and dock with space stations, etc. I will try the career mode in 0.24, but I'd rather set my own goals and feel my skills developing rather than follow a tech tree, which is a bit arbitrary.

[rhoark]

I was initially excited for career mode to provide more purpose and objectives to the game, but it turned out to mostly stand in the way of doing cool stuff. I think it was a mistake to treat the tech tree as a teaching tool for new players. It holds a lot of things back too long out of a paternalistic fear of confusing players. I still play in career mode to make science instruments functional, but with all parts moved to the start node. The interesting progression not with what parts you have, but what you can do with them. Building out my RemoteTech network, refining aerodynamics with Ferram and procedural wings, automating more things with kOS, and honing my IVA skills are what keep me coming back for more. Compared to those challenges, just having all the parts unlocked doesn't feel like cheating in the slightest.

[Guest]

SANDBOX.

Career is overrated and the devs need to focus on something else.

I've played Career... It's fun... But It dosen't appeal to a hardcore player since 0.13.1 (Yes I've been around for that long) (Well technically I forgot about KSP and remembered It during 0.23.)

[Souper]

Carreer.

I am not a coward.

Edited May 20, 2014 by Souper

[Red Iron Crown]

I am not a coward.

Not sure how one's preference between career and sandbox is a statement about their courage.

[Souper]

(Playing career means you're not afraid of possible failure in the early tech tree.)

[Bilfr3d]

Definitely career. It actually gives me goals to strive for, like passing my the mun, landing on the mun, rescuing jeb. Gives me solid goals to achieve something and I get a good sense of achievement once I finish it. That is why career

[Red Iron Crown]

(Playing career means you're not afraid of possible failure in the early tech tree.)

I don't fear failure any less in sandbox mode than career mode, the consequences are identical. Maybe that will change when there are more consequences for failing in career.

I don't really fear failure at all in KSP, it's an old familiar friend.

[Dodgey]

I prefer sandbox. It allows me to build to my hearts content which is what I like.

[Hannu]

Both modes have good sides, but I like more crazy projects in sandbox. Career mode could be more entertaining, if I started game now and learned things at the same time as I get new technology, but I have played since version 0.18, visited on all bodies (with solid surface), had bases on Laythe and Tylo and launched about 3000 ton rockets (without new very large parts). Therefore I feel that it is quite boring to make several easy one man Mun trips. But of course, it has been interesting variation in game to play career mode with almost pure stock game 0.23.5 (only Alarm Clock and Ship Manifest, Mechjeb did not work).

I hope that developers could put more attention to celestial bodies, controls and physic model as soon as possible after current intensive period with career mode. Last updates have been quite boring for me. Also huge tanks and engines, because one big part of the fun is to get over thousand part launchers to work.

[MarvinKitFox]

Career. Definitely career, BTSM style!

[Temeter]

Career is overrated and the devs need to focus on something else.

So my interest in career mode is a false opinion?

I've played Career... It's fun... But It dosen't appeal to a hardcore player since 0.13.1 (Yes I've been around for that long) (Well technically I forgot about KSP and remembered It during 0.23.)

You're aware that the central part of career isn't even implemented, are you? Atm it's only teching, and thats especially designed as an entry-point for beginners. Stuff like contracts, limited budget and cost should be much more interesting to a hardcore player, since it adds more depth to construction and indirect even to missions itself, because you can't always take the easy way.

[OptiSTR]

I play only career mode!

In sandbox mode you start from all the advance tech, you never use the low tech, so basically you completely ignore half of the game!

In career mode you are forced to use the low tech, which by turn forces you to use your brain and come up with creative solutions!

Also in career mode you actually have a point in flying to other planets, in sandbox the one and only reason to fly to other planets is if you want to see them up close...

In the end, i saw many many youtube videos of people playing sandbox, all they do all day is making jets, crashing them, building unrealistic large stations just for the looks of it...

[Hary R]

For now, i'm waiting for .24 to come out before restarting a career, money will make think way more interesting. Right now, it is sand box experiment only for me.

Also in career mode you actually have a point in flying to other planets, in sandbox the one and only reason to fly to other planets is if you want to see them up close...

Well ... Sand box is good to try stuff without restriction (apart from DV of course). No need to think of science, (for the future) money, tech tree and dying kerbals. Just build and see if it work. it is also a good tool to prepare a mission for career, see if your design is actually working, if your mission will fail due to planing error... etc

you can see it as a real scale simulation if you want.

[Souper]

Career. Once i research everything, i can build whatever i want and learn everything about the planets!

[FishInferno]

i do career mostly unless i am testing a mod or just bored and playing around. Career gives a better gameplay experience IMO because it makes missions have more of an objective, and it makes you do things in a realistic order(like you have to get to orbit before you can land on the mun, while in sandbox your first mission could be to eeloo)

[Guest]

So my interest in career mode is a false opinion?

You're aware that the central part of career isn't even implemented, are you? Atm it's only teching, and thats especially designed as an entry-point for beginners. Stuff like contracts, limited budget and cost should be much more interesting to a hardcore player, since it adds more depth to construction and indirect even to missions itself, because you can't always take the easy way.

All I am saying is it is overrated AS HELL. They need to finish Budgeting before I delete my Career save.

I just don't see exactly what's fun about It I hate Career. I really do.

You can go play It. I don't think your decision is wrong. Just I think It's overrated.

[ripvanlemon]

For me, sandbox is the heart of the game. I don't know where they're going with career mode, and maybe the ugly duckling will become a beautiful swan one day *sniff* -- but right now it's a bit of a grind. Maybe if I could go back and approach it as a new player? .22 science was really boring, granted. Transmission spam felt like playing Diablo 2 or something. People probably wore out mice on that. But for me it's almost as bad in .23+ having to repeatedly visit the same bodies and do the same thing (or biome-hop on Kerbin, which I couldn't even bring myself to do because the idea of it is so boring).

I don't think career adds anything to the game at this point -- except science! -- but instead takes away a lot of options until you land on the Mun and Minmus a million times. The challenge of the game was always in learning how to do things. If somebody approached it with total understanding of orbital physics and maneuvering, then they'd just have the small hurdle of learning the keybinds and HUD, and they could get straight into building rockets. That's the way it should be! You shouldn't be grinding for XP, you should be able to jump in at your skill level and have fun! If science was available in sandbox, that would be perfect IMO. It wouldn't count for anything, it would just be another fun thing to do.

[Temeter]

All I am saying is it is overrated AS HELL. They need to finish Budgeting before I delete my Career save.

I just don't see exactly what's fun about It I hate Career. I really do.

You can go play It. I don't think your decision is wrong. Just I think It's overrated.

Calling something overrated is calling opinions wrong^^

I ment that we basically don't have a career mode. We only have an early tech tree, so we're missing almost everything defining the career for long-time players.

[Red Iron Crown]

I'm a bit concerned that KSP's career mode will turn it into a game that you "finish" and then restart for another "playthrough". Part of KSP's lasting appeal for me is that it's open-ended, you're never finished, and the only goals are those you set for yourself.

I know I can always play sandbox (and I do), but we're starting to see signs of compromising sandbox balance to make career mode more progressive. I hope that trend doesn't continue.

[Guest]

Calling something overrated is calling opinions wrong^^

I ment that we basically don't have a career mode. We only have an early tech tree, so we're missing almost everything defining the career for long-time players.

*Mental Problems kick in* SHUT. THE. HELL. UP.

Overrated DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY Mean you are WRONG.

ALL I'M SAYING IS THAT I HATE IT.

YOU CAN LIKE IT.... Jesus Christ.

[Pecan]

I'm a bit concerned that KSP's career mode will turn it into a game that you "finish" and then restart for another "playthrough". Part of KSP's lasting appeal for me is that it's open-ended, you're never finished, and the only goals are those you set for yourself.

I know I can always play sandbox (and I do), but we're starting to see signs of compromising sandbox balance to make career mode more progressive. I hope that trend doesn't continue.

Once again I find myself in complete agreement with you (fan club members get free gifts, right?). A lot of career-players seem to think the "point" of KSP is unlocking the tech-tree, possibly in interesting ways (2 missions, etc.) but science-for-parts is what it's all about, rather than, say efficiency, safety, inventiveness or - why not - moar boosters! As I said before I'm looking forward to what Squad do with career and I think it will help sell the game to those that want to know what they're "meant" to do but the danger is that some will think they've "won KSP" at some point.

To be honest, I think people playing career for science-points are in for more of a shock when it is more fully-developed than sandbox players, simply because the current system is so unfinished.