[0.25/0.90] Better Atmospheres [V5 - June 14th, 2014]

[DasBananenbrot]

Wow I haven't been in the forums for 2 days and I come back to this. When I saw those auroras and then the rings of Jool , I almost fell from my chair This is simply awesome ...

Those high altitude clouds are nice erona, good work

[Iforgotthis]

This is a really great mod, I love it.

The only thing is Jool. It looks too ordered, too clean cut. I think a bit of 'blurring' between the gas bands would make it look a lot more realistic instead of the solid looking blocks.

Also as beautiful as those rings are, they look very consuming... Will they have much of an effect of computer speeds? If they do, will we be able to remove them without affecting the other great features in this mod?

[Thesonicgalaxy]

This is a really great mod, I love it.

The only thing is Jool. It looks too ordered, too clean cut. I think a bit of 'blurring' between the gas bands would make it look a lot more realistic instead of the solid looking blocks.

Also as beautiful as those rings are, they look very consuming... Will they have much of an effect of computer speeds? If they do, will we be able to remove them without affecting the other great features in this mod?

Yeah, I've always thought the same too.

I could go with this,

As to question 2, I don't know if they are. Probably depending on your computer. Yes they can be removed without getting rid of anything else.

[DasBananenbrot]

Yeah, I've always thought the same too.

I could go with this,

http://i.imgur.com/ZpyGY89.png

As to question 2, I don't know if they are. Probably depending on your computer. Yes they can be removed without getting rid of anything else.

Looks better

[Iforgotthis]

Yeah, I've always thought the same too.

I could go with this,

http://i.imgur.com/ZpyGY89.png

As to question 2, I don't know if they are. Probably depending on your computer. Yes they can be removed without getting rid of anything else.

I agree with DasBananenbrot that looks a lot better! This whole pack is so amazing and I'm really looking forward to V5

[Thomas988]

some previews of kerbiny stuff we're working on.

Oh

My

Lord

That is amazing

[TheScareCake!]

Sonic, i love you (no homo), you answered to my suggestion.. with making it! The rings!

Oh, and one more thing, are those wings optional? Ive always wondered how would kerbin be like with rings...

[Thesonicgalaxy]

Sonic, i love you (no homo), you answered to my suggestion.. with making it! The rings!

Oh, and one more thing, are those wings optional? Ive always wondered how would kerbin be like with rings...

I love you for suggesting it <3.

They're part of EVE, so they can be removed/added if wanted.

[Xenon2462]

i've sorted it thanks anyways

[Thesonicgalaxy]

Since Texture Replacer is now part of this pack, I thought about asking space engine for a new skybox.

It has....quite a view.

I would also like some suggestions for planetary rings. Should any other planet/moon get some rings?

[Space_Kraken]

Here's what I got when I asked space engine:

[Thesonicgalaxy]

Here's what I got when I asked space engine: http://i.imgur.com/ztcLEfS.png?1

Yeah, used that some time ago. That's from Andromeda, right?

Anyway, here's an album. This is without distant object enhancement though,

Javascript is disabled. View full album

[DeepOdyssey]

Did you really plan to add the Jool belts?

Edited May 16, 2014 by DeepOdyssey

[DasBananenbrot]

Yeah, used that some time ago. That's from Andromeda, right?

Anyway, here's an album. This is without distant object enhancement though,

http://imgur.com/a/jB1Qi

HOLY SHEEEEET This looks so pretty, I can't wait to get my hands on this

[Thesonicgalaxy]

Did you really plan to add the Jool belts?

http://i.imgur.com/5fBmq3v.png

Sort of.

I was highly inspired by the works of Proot. So I used his detail texture with asteroids idea. Ever since I thought of adding rings I kept his ideas in mind, then asked Erona to make a detail texture. He delivered quite well!

Work has also been done on the planets. Here they are right now. Feedback would be nice, as well as giving some suggestion on planets/moons that should have rings.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

[Yargnit]

I gotta be honest, I don't like the aurora's or the rings. Specifically I don't like the aurora's from space. They's way too in your face. The look great from on the planet, but form in space, bleh. The rings are also way to bright and solid. Thet remind me or the crumbles you put in yogurt or something. I'd done the opacity way down on them for a start and see how it comes out.

[Thesonicgalaxy]

I gotta be honest, I don't like the aurora's or the rings. Specifically I don't like the aurora's from space. They's way too in your face. The look great from on the planet, but form in space, bleh. The rings are also way to bright and solid. Thet remind me or the crumbles you put in yogurt or something. I'd done the opacity way down on them for a start and see how it comes out.

Don't worry! Honesty when giving feedback is very helpful!

Javascript is disabled. View full album

[Xenon2462]

yea thats a good improvement 8/10 i think there should look more dusty

[iDan122]

Wow aurora on Kerbin and Laythe look amazing now!

[m4ti140]

Hmmm, I think you should make auroras more transparent, not dimmer (I don't know if that's what you did but that's how it looks now). Optimally they should be hardly visible on dayside and stare you right in the face on nightside.

Maybe use simmilar settings as the city lights for them. One thing's for sure: They need to glow with their own light.

@Yargnit:

I'd say they are in your face in orbit. Still though, it depends on Solar activity. Should be adjusted to taste by user IMO.

As for rings, they look awesome, but they are waaaaaay too thick. Saturn's rings for instance are mostly arround 10m (yes, metres, not kilometres) thick, with few wider "bumps" that can be up to a few kilometres wide. The ice chunks are boulder sized (so arround the size of a Kerbal). There is also a lot of ice dust there.

Also I still think Eve should be bright. Venus is the brightest planet on our night sky, although the surface is not white, it's dark and has nothing in common with the clouds, maybe besides the brownish tint on them. Now, in stock KSP Sunsets on Eve are green, which may suggest that the purple colour of atmosphere comes only from the light reflected from surface. I think the clouds could be very bright purple with few darker areas, and the atmosphere white-pinkish going into light green near the terminator. I shall try experimenting with this myself. Is the atmosphere colour and brightness customizable?

Edited May 16, 2014 by m4ti140

[Space_Kraken]

@TheSonicGalaxy, lemme guess, Large magnellic Cloud? If so, I made a skybox for that too.

[Iforgotthis]

Also I still think Eve should be bright. Venus is the brightest planet on our night sky, although the surface is not white, it's dark and has nothing in common with the clouds, maybe besides the brownish tint on them. Now, in stock KSP Sunsets on Eve are green, which may suggest that the purple colour of atmosphere comes only from the light reflected from surface. I think the clouds could be very bright purple with few darker areas, and the atmosphere white-pinkish going into light green near the terminator. I shall try experimenting with this myself. Is the atmosphere colour and brightness customizable?

Actually the atmosphere will be purple for the same reason Earth's is blue; the way the light interacts with particles in the atmosphere. The atmosphere will appear green at sunset because the light is entering at a different angle, hence the colour change.

Also I like the dark purple look of the clouds. I think they look really stormy and ominous. Venus is stormy, it's just a completely different colour to Eve.

[m4ti140]

Actually the atmosphere will be purple for the same reason Earth's is blue; the way the light interacts with particles in the atmosphere. The atmosphere will appear green at sunset because the light is entering at a different angle, hence the colour change.

Also I like the dark purple look of the clouds. I think they look really stormy and ominous. Venus is stormy, it's just a completely different colour to Eve.

Hmm, actually, let's properly analyse it.

The colour depends both on reflected light and atmospheric composition. In case of Venus, clouds reflect so much light that the light emitted by gases fades.

Earth atmosphere remains blue even above large landmasses, like Asia. The color comes from the phenomenon called Raylegih Scattering. Molecueles of air absorb light and then emit it in random directions. In case of Earth, the 21%O 78%N atmosphere mainly absorbs short length waves, namely blue. At high angles, the light passes through atmosphere without much impact on color, and atmosphere emits blue light. At low angles, the light has to travel much further in atmoshpere, so most of the low wavelength light is absorbed on the way, making sun look red. Note that the sky above you is actually blue at sunset. Later, however, it becomes red and that is due to the fact that atoms reflect much more red light then they absorb and emit blue.

Of course, effects vary depending on atmosphere thickness as well as composition. On Mars the sky is red for most of the day and it isn't until sunset that you can see the blue tint. In case of Eve however, even without clouds the atmosphere is so thick that it's color should depend almost entirely on atmosphere composition and altitude you're making observations on. Now, this is where it gets strange. We don't know the composition of Eve's atmosphere since it's never been stated by devs. Whatever it is that composes it however, it's absorption spectrum is messed up enough that the sunsets are... green...

Now, if it lets green go so far through, then it aparently absorbs higher and lower wavelengths. So, upper atmosphere emits red and blue, which gives you... magenta. However, first of all, the atmosphere goes from purple in upper atmoshpere to white in deeper.

But it would make more sense if it was purple-magenta in higher, and green in lower atmosphere. Near surface you would get a very dark surface bc the wavelegnths it reflects have been absorbed. At surface level, at midday, the sky would be green near horizon and get purpler when you look up... Honestly, I give up, I can't even imagine what it looks like.

HOWEVER, the actual reflective surface of the planet is at arround 10km altitude - the entire surface is obstructed by clouds. Now the thing is, I have no idea what kind of chemical would produce so dark clouds that would sustain at such altitude. We have 2 clouded bodies in solar system, Venus and Titan and both have bright clouds. Also whatever it is, with such low reflection rate it would absorb ludicrous ammounts of radiation, heat too. It would probably vaporize instead of forming clouds (remember clouds are made of small drops of liquid).

The way it looks on Sonic's latest screenshots makes much more sense then before but I'm still gonna mess arround and see what I can come up with - it turns out everything is adjustable in this mod.

Now that we're at it: Sonic, should I remove the original config or leave it be? Since currently both original layers and your layers are loaded by EVE.

Also, is it just for me or anyone else has the city layer terribly misaligned (by hundreds of kilometres)? I disabled them anyway since I don't use city lights but I'm just curious.

Edited May 16, 2014 by m4ti140

[Thesonicgalaxy]

Hmm, actually, let's properly analyse it.

If the surface is entirely obstructed by clouds it doesn't reflect light anymore. Refer to Venus again - it's atmosphere color doesn't come from surface but from clouds, which are almost white and atmospheric composition

Also it's atmospheric composition that has highest impact on color (unless you're on Venus where clouds reflect so much light that the light emitted by gases fades) - Earth atmosphere remains blue even above large landmasses, even Asia. The color comes from the phenomenon called Raylegih Scattering. Molecueles of air absorb light and then emit it in random directions. In case of Earth, the 21%O 78%N atmosphere mainly absorbs short length waves, namely blue. At high angles, the light passes through atmosphere without much impact on color, and atmosphere emits blue light. At low angles, the light has to travel much further in atmoshpere, so most of the low wavelength light is absorbed on the way, making sun look red. Note that the sky above you is actually blue at sunset. Later, however, it becomes red and that is due to the fact that atoms reflect much more red light then they absorb and emit blue.

Of course, effects vary depending on atmosphere thickness as well as composition. On Mars the sky is red for most of the day and it isn't until sunset that you can see the blue tint. In case of Eve however, even without clouds the atmosphere is so thick that it's color should depend almost entirely on atmosphere composition and altitude you're making observations on. Now, this is where it gets strange. We don't know the composition of Eve's atmosphere since it's never been stated by devs. Whatever it is that composes it however, it's absorption spectrum is messed up enough that the sunsets are... green...

Now, if it lets green go so far through, then it aparently absorbs higher and lower wavelengths. So, upper atmosphere emits red and blue, which gives you... magenta. However, first of all, the atmosphere goes from purple in upper atmoshpere to white in deeper.

But it would make more sense if it was purple-magenta in higher, and green in lower atmosphere. Near surface you would get a very dark surface bc the wavelegnths it reflects have been absorbed. At surface level, at midday, the sky would be green near horizon and get purpler when you look up... Honestly, I give up, I can't even imagine what it looks like.

HOWEVER, the actual reflective surface of the planet is at arround 10km altitude - the entire surface is obstructed by clouds. Now the thing is, I have no idea what kind of chemical would produce so dark clouds that would sustain at such altitude. We have 2 clouded bodies in solar system, Eve and Titan and both have bright clouds. Also whatever it is, with such low reflection rate it would absorb ludicrous ammounts of radiation, heat too. It would probably vaporize instead of forming clouds (remember clouds are made of small drops of liquid).

The way it looks on Sonic's latest screenshots makes much more sense then before but I'm still gonna mess arround and see what I can come up with - it turns out everything is adjustable in this mod.

Now that we're at it: Sonic, should I remove the original config or leave it be? Since currently both original layers and your layers are loaded by EVE.

Also, is it just for me or anyone else has the city layer terribly misaligned (by hundreds of kilometres)? I disabled them anyway since I don't use city lights but I'm just curious.

It's just how E.V.E works. The layer placement is placed relative to Kerbin's orbit around the Sun, at least I think.

Also, I don't think it's possible to get the same settings of the city lights on a cloud layer. Seeing as how the city lights are a completely different plugin from the clouds.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Here's some adjusting I've done. It's going to be near impossible to get a glow and not have them in your face. I've also made the rings as thin as they're going to get.

And yes, remove the original config.

Edited May 16, 2014 by Thesonicgalaxy

[Iforgotthis]

Hmm, actually, let's properly analyse it.

The colour depends both on reflected light and atmospheric composition. In case of Venus, clouds reflect so much light that the light emitted by gases fades.

Earth atmosphere remains blue even above large landmasses, like Asia. The color comes from the phenomenon called Raylegih Scattering. Molecueles of air absorb light and then emit it in random directions. In case of Earth, the 21%O 78%N atmosphere mainly absorbs short length waves, namely blue. At high angles, the light passes through atmosphere without much impact on color, and atmosphere emits blue light. At low angles, the light has to travel much further in atmoshpere, so most of the low wavelength light is absorbed on the way, making sun look red. Note that the sky above you is actually blue at sunset. Later, however, it becomes red and that is due to the fact that atoms reflect much more red light then they absorb and emit blue.

Of course, effects vary depending on atmosphere thickness as well as composition. On Mars the sky is red for most of the day and it isn't until sunset that you can see the blue tint. In case of Eve however, even without clouds the atmosphere is so thick that it's color should depend almost entirely on atmosphere composition and altitude you're making observations on. Now, this is where it gets strange. We don't know the composition of Eve's atmosphere since it's never been stated by devs. Whatever it is that composes it however, it's absorption spectrum is messed up enough that the sunsets are... green...

Now, if it lets green go so far through, then it aparently absorbs higher and lower wavelengths. So, upper atmosphere emits red and blue, which gives you... magenta. However, first of all, the atmosphere goes from purple in upper atmoshpere to white in deeper.

But it would make more sense if it was purple-magenta in higher, and green in lower atmosphere. Near surface you would get a very dark surface bc the wavelegnths it reflects have been absorbed. At surface level, at midday, the sky would be green near horizon and get purpler when you look up... Honestly, I give up, I can't even imagine what it looks like.

HOWEVER, the actual reflective surface of the planet is at arround 10km altitude - the entire surface is obstructed by clouds. Now the thing is, I have no idea what kind of chemical would produce so dark clouds that would sustain at such altitude. We have 2 clouded bodies in solar system, Venus and Titan and both have bright clouds. Also whatever it is, with such low reflection rate it would absorb ludicrous ammounts of radiation, heat too. It would probably vaporize instead of forming clouds (remember clouds are made of small drops of liquid).

The way it looks on Sonic's latest screenshots makes much more sense then before but I'm still gonna mess arround and see what I can come up with - it turns out everything is adjustable in this mod.

Now that we're at it: Sonic, should I remove the original config or leave it be? Since currently both original layers and your layers are loaded by EVE.

Also, is it just for me or anyone else has the city layer terribly misaligned (by hundreds of kilometres)? I disabled them anyway since I don't use city lights but I'm just curious.

I must apologise, I completely misunderstood the original statement you made.

The only possible way eve could be so dark is... I don't know, a unique element that's undiscovered?

Why must clouds all be the same colour anyway? Why not have a subtle mixture of lighter clouds at high altitude and darker ones at the lower altitudes? Then it stands up in theory (reflecting lots of light, radiation etc) and also looks nice

Lots of light would get reflected by the upper clouds leaving small amounts of light lower down.

- - - Updated - - -

It's just how E.V.E works. The layer placement is placed relative to Kerbin's orbit around the Sun, at least I think.

Also, I don't think it's possible to get the same settings of the city lights on a cloud layer. Seeing as how the city lights are a completely different plugin from the clouds.

http://imgur.com/a/dFuYf

Here's some adjusting I've done. It's going to be near impossible to get a glow and not have them in your face. I've also made the rings as thin as they're going to get.

And yes, remove the original config.

What does Kerbin's aurora look like from the surface (regarding that screenshot)?