No Rules Circumnavigation Race

[Rakaydos]

You need to have you nose below the horizon and go faster than orbital velocity. For an eai breather this may involve intakes at... unconventional angles.

I lost almost 5 minutes because the probe that made it back to KSC had half the terminal velocity I'm used to. :/

[zarakon]

The only way I know of to get under 30 minutes is to go faster than orbital velocity while constantly thrusting downward to avoid flying away from the planet.

One circular orbit at 70km is under 30 minutes, but you'll end up taking longer than that because you're going slower at launch and landing

[totalitor]

I tried this also. My time is 28 min 33 s

Launching

Orbiting

On orbit. Look at the speed.

Slowing down

Landed

With Mechjeb I can do this maybe one minute faster but precise landing without it is a bit tricky for me.

And one question for IMGUR users: I want also show pictures here like for example Rakaydos do. But that embed code don't show here nothing. How to do that? I show one picture at time but it is clumsy.

Edited May 2, 2014 by totalitor

[B1LL60]

You need to have you nose below the horizon and go faster than orbital velocity. For an eai breather this may involve intakes at... unconventional angles.

I lost almost 5 minutes because the probe that made it back to KSC had half the terminal velocity I'm used to. :/

Nice, a very active community! Thanks for the responses

I am thinking with a Jet only, and still keeping everything as stock as possible. I've tried not to go clipping loads of intakes (I did use the reverse aero spike technique, used on stock albatross) as a count I've got 32 intakes with 7 ramjets, 5 running above 20Km at about 3/4 throttle.

I like the idea of intakes at angles and will see if I can get that to work, maybe get them angled down 20-30 degrees and then while nose up at high altitudes they will be more face on. I'll see what happens...

[B1LL60]

The only way I know of to get under 30 minutes is to go faster than orbital velocity while constantly thrusting downward to avoid flying away from the planet.

One circular orbit at 70km is under 30 minutes, but you'll end up taking longer than that because you're going slower at launch and landing

With a pure air breathing jet I've only got into an orbit once! Well the lower orbit (periapsis) was about 25Km higher orbit (apoapsis) 100Km, fluked it? I don't know, the jets were using .50(ish) fuel with 0 thrust but I kept accelerating? It all span out when the atmosphere ran out around 70Km but was based on the same plane I've used for this, I did try to keep the nose down but it was too much. Glitch?

[flipmcf]

In the spirit of "No Rules" I'm thinking of relaxing the whole "start and finish from KSC" deal.

Opens up mountaintops for launching.

However, I'm not sure how to judge a finish then...

Something like Plant a flag, and land in sight of it? (300m or so?)

Also, using hyperedit to place your craft at the start would be allowed.

Suggestions? Comments? Snide remarks?

[flipmcf]

I did try to keep the nose down but it was too much. Glitch?

There are two ways I get past that problem:

1) lots of reaction wheels!

For every (yes every!) ram air intake you use, put a reaction wheel between it and the fuel/engine structure

2) RCS - especially on the nose and tails. Who says it's not cool to use RCS in the atmosphere? Not Me!

Some of my larger space planes have up to 6 Place-Anywhere 7 Linear RCS Port's on the nose and tail, pointed so they give some crazy pitch torque around the COM when used. 3 on top and 3 on the bottom:

[B1LL60]

There are two ways I get past that problem:

1) lots of reaction wheels!

For every (yes every!) ram air intake you use, put a reaction wheel between it and the fuel/engine structure

2) RCS - especially on the nose and tails. Who says it's not cool to use RCS in the atmosphere? Not Me!

Some of my larger space planes have up to 6 Place-Anywhere 7 Linear RCS Port's on the nose and tail, pointed so they give some crazy pitch torque around the COM when used. 3 on top and 3 on the bottom:

http://i.imgur.com/4kFleSk.jpg

That's a pretty sweet plane! What rockets are you using on it? Can you give me a rear view? Also liking the engine nacelles across the back! How much of a gain do you get with them? The radial coolers too? Are they dead weight, do they help? I've been undecided in the past.

I'll give the RCS trick a go, I like what you've done there. I'm all for reaction wheels too, but you think I'd need 32 in total?! I'll give it a try and reduce if needed for the weight balance. I've currently got 5, 1 front, 2 rear with 1 on each of the near body jets.

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/3280054973721994774/D06202BAA186F923C56A0F1E5E9C91D137BFD5A2/

Some good ideas, keep them coming! This is great!

I still think sub 30 min can be done with a stock pure air breathing jet, not easily.

Edited May 3, 2014 by B1LL60

[Northstar1989]

No rules?

Prepare to see it done in under 20 minutes!

(entry to come soon)

- Northstar

[Northstar1989]

OK, well I didn't make it in under 20 minutes (even though my vessel was easily capable in making it in under 15 min with better piloting), but I did beat all the prior speed records.

I present, the glory of a 20 Mn Nuclear Pulse Rocket (from Nyrath's Orion mod, which somebody mentioned earlier already)

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Touchdown a bit before 23:00, even though I didn't manage to grab a screenshot until 23:04. Put me down for 23:00 (might have quicksaved during descent- so can repeat it if you guys need the proof)

EDIT: Loaded the quicksave, and managed to grab a couple screenshots before 23:02, even though I took it a bit slower landing this time. Also, managed to land on a rooftop for the win!

Put me down for 23:00

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Regards,

Northstar

Edited May 4, 2014 by Northstar1989

[koshelenkovv]

6 hours 3 minutes (i.e. 1 day) on electric airplane

It was fine toy some time ago. Now, in 0.23.5 it became extremely nose-heavy. I do not know who to blame - 0.23.5 or new Firespitter.

I realized that it was strategic mistake to start journey at morning. Cruising speed is slightly greater than Kerbin's rotation speed and this makes Sun to unrise back.

Technical stop here.

Ooops!

Luckily, nothing have broke.

Ocean, only ocean below.

[B1LL60]

Koshelenkovv - That has made my day!

[flipmcf]

Koshelenkovv

It looked really bad putting you on the leaderboard next to all these 30m times, so you got your own leaderboard for your category.

[koshelenkovv]

Koshelenkovv

It looked really bad putting you on the leaderboard next to all these 30m times, so you got your own leaderboard for your category.

Thanks, but I don't really care. I did it for fun - never made pure solar circumnavigation before :3

Gained a lot of experience about relation between electric propeller power consumption, air density and speed. Also with maneuvering while being properly aligned with the Sun (like back zoom or descending wheels-over-head to get some light on panels)

Edit:

Also, solar circumnavigation cannot be done much shorter than in one day - you need light to fly.

Edited May 4, 2014 by koshelenkovv

[Darren9]

^ I think your little electric craft is suffering from the de-mass & drag-ification of certain small parts that Squad did in 23.5 Koshelenkovv, I've noticed it with the square battery - it has mass/drag in the hanger but not out flying.

I'm going to have a go at the terrestrial navigation, following SpaceK531's route but the other way for a bit more daylight. So far I've made a boat and flew out 7 refuel stations so I'm set to go. The little craft can manage 240m/s stable at 2x warp with a range around 8-900Km at full throttle, for the short land hops maybe 60m/s on reasonably flat ground. The refuel stations are a fuel can with KAS winch that the boat driver can grab from beneath. I'll update if/when I manage to complete

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[SpaceK531]

ooh, the heat's on now!

[Darren9]

ooh, the heat's on now!

It was on for nearly 20 mins Seems I can't reliably make pitch adjustments at full speed and 2x warp. If only SAS could follow the curve of the surface.

[SpaceK531]

I'll share with you a secret that I use: physwarp makes the boat go slower. Also, are you by any chance using FAR?

EDIT: also, with regards to your electric circumnavigation leaderboard, why not change it to slowest circumnavigators? Any entry where the user has to control the craft continuously for over 2 hours would qualify (no fast-forwarding and then doing an hour run), ranked descending?

Edited May 5, 2014 by SpaceK531

[Fendleton]

A fine challenge. I had a go but had to abort the attempt 10 minutes into it (~5 minutes MET. Yay lag!).....I'd got up to cruising speed, realised that the faults in the initial design would prevent a decent time....and then a compulsory update forced a restart, the computer shut down on me and killed the run. Ah well. Here's a couple of pics of the prototype on that first attempt, while I work on fixing it for the next run:

Looks pretty, but accelerates like a cement truck going uphill, despite having 8 engines and enough wing to make working on it in the SPH really annoying. With "tweaks" (read: complete redesign of bits of it) I might be able to save up to 5 minutes if I can get the ascent a bit faster. I figure 4-6 of the largest SRBs and some launch clamps should do the trick.

It is very pretty though, and surprisingly easy to handle once it's past 15,000m. Past 18,000 it edges it way up to 1,200m/s with mostly-full fuel. Makes a nice change from the ascent, where the autopilot/SAS/whatever tries to wobble the wings apart. Shortly after this my computer decided to restart, so I don't have times/whatever. Doesn't matter anyway since the run died young. Next time, I'll make it!

Plans for next version: Well, since I'll be using RATO/VTOL to get up to altitude faster, I'll only be using landing gear to land.....so there's nothing to stop me from using clip-on jet engines with some parachutes attached so I can go faster AND make a hellishly dangerous rapid slow-down when it's time to land at KSC. And I'll do some unusual intake stuff as well. Should go well, or explode better.

[Darren9]

I'll share with you a secret that I use: physwarp makes the boat go slower. Also, are you by any chance using FAR?

EDIT: also, with regards to your electric circumnavigation leaderboard, why not change it to slowest circumnavigators? Any entry where the user has to control the craft continuously for over 2 hours would qualify (no fast-forwarding and then doing an hour run), ranked descending?

No, I don't have FAR. It's the Porkworks/PorkJet MK2 fuel tank/adapter things, with a stock fuel can it wont go as fast, also it's only 17 parts and six of those have no physics.

I did the first leg as well. Didn't realize that the MET would switch to the fuel barge when I docked so I'll have to claim +10 mins from the last screenie a few K's out for 1 hour and I'll make sure to get pictures just before the refuel docking for the rest.

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Another update, did the ocean legs up to 4 without too much drama and full speed for most of it. Currently parked at the end of the lake in the middle of the land leg with the overall clock approaching 4 hours.

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Edited May 5, 2014 by Darren9

[Fendleton]

Take 2: Failure! Again!

So I set about redesigning the plane from last time. More engines, more intakes, more boosters. You know the drill (incidentally this makes it a really slow glider at low altitudes. Took me ~10 minutes to descend and land).

Because this is a somewhat heavy plane, I figured it'd be easier to just VTOL launch to the west, rather than runway launch and turn. Furthermore, rather than mess around with radial engines or whatever, the best bet would be to attach 6 of the biggest SRBs and hope for the best.

Not shown: Wings flexing in the breeze and making it really, really hard to fly.

After a 3-minute boost up to cruising altitude and a speed of 2000m/s, Bill settled in for the long flight. After a while he relaxed and even started to enjoy it!

Note shown: Me multitasking by doing 2 assignments and flying the plane at once, causing some altitude goofs that cost a few minutes at some point.

Alas, things were not to last, as it came up to the half-way point. With all fuselage fuel used, it was time to eject the boosters and get some more altitude for the long cruise home. Pity that one of the four boosters apparently didn't get the "fall off, damnit" memo. After a slow and annoying descent which proved that I need to rework my plane even more for better low-altitude speed (although it lands well), I landed just short of the half-way point. This is still the furthest (and fastest) I've ever sent a jet, so it's still pretty reasonable....apart from only making it half way around the world.

Note shown: The descent itself. I did take shots, but it was nighttime and everything was on fire anyway.

Getting Bill out to survey the damage, I went off to see if I could redesign the boosters for Take 3.....

Note shown: Bill falling off and getting stranded. Guess he's not coming on the next attempt.

I'm enjoying this challenge. I could build a plane to get around the planet fairly easily.......and I could build a very fast plane fairly easily. Doing both at once has resulted in some of the funniest accidents I've had all year in this game.

[B1LL60]

Fendleton - "I'm enjoying this challenge. I could build a plane to get around the planet fairly easily.......and I could build a very fast plane fairly easily. Doing both at once has resulted in some of the funniest accidents I've had all year in this game."

I hear that! I don't remember the last time I did a purposeful 'rocket in space run', I've just been chasing this dragon :-)!

What height are you 'cruising' at? How many engines have you got running at that point? How fast are you going? I've got 34 intakes running 5 engines (7 for take off) at about 37-40 Km at 2050ms(ish, orbit not surface speed) it still cuts out due to lack of air and I can't get past 30min there is time to be made in takeoff/landing. Out of curiosity how much fuel do you have?

[Fendleton]

Fendleton - "I'm enjoying this challenge. I could build a plane to get around the planet fairly easily.......and I could build a very fast plane fairly easily. Doing both at once has resulted in some of the funniest accidents I've had all year in this game."

I hear that! I don't remember the last time I did a purposeful 'rocket in space run', I've just been chasing this dragon :-)!

What height are you 'cruising' at? How many engines have you got running at that point? How fast are you going? I've got 34 intakes running 5 engines (7 for take off) at about 37-40 Km at 2050ms(ish, orbit not surface speed) it still cuts out due to lack of air and I can't get past 30min there is time to be made in takeoff/landing. Out of curiosity how much fuel do you have?

With the disposable boosters I'm cruising at ~25-28 kilometers at a top speed of 2150m/s (surface). Not sure how many intakes, but above 28KM I start risking flameouts (although I have RCS and reaction wheels so it's not immediately fatal).

Once the boosters are ejected I can get much higher, up to 30-35km and a speed of 2180m/s.....I also start saving fuel. Unfortunately that dead engine that refused to fall away meant I couldn't hold a heading (it already trends to the right)......so I had to abort. I'm considering replacing the extra jets with a set of SRBs as an experiment to see if I can use a 2-stage boost to get higher and faster in even less time.

The engine profile is 6 main jets + 4 disposable jets + 6 of the big SRBs for launch. I'm planning to revise that by adding some extra fuel, reworking the booster-jets, and altering the intake angles. The angled intakes are very useful: while they don't allow me to go faster than orbital speed, they do allow me far greater control over my pitch at high altitudes by ensuring I don't lose airflow....unfortunately, they're a little too steep ATM....when I tweak them I'll probably be able to get as high as your craft.

In terms of takeoff/landing, my craft has a major edge in launching because of the massive RATO packs....3 minutes to get up to 2km/s surface speed saves a lot of time and fuel. Unfortunately, it's very hard to land it quickly due to the massive wing and high part-count causing drag. Since it currently takes a full 10 minutes to descend from 25km and land (albiet I had to do some low-altitude cruising), I think I'll add some retro-rockets to slow it down faster.

Edit: Oooh, retro-rockets work rather nicely, actually. Unfortunately, I can't fit them on the old plane without it ripping the wings off. Time for something new......my test-craft went from a bit over 2,000m/s (surface, orbital was ~2,300) to "crashing into the ground" (I forgot landing gear) in under 2 minutes....and with landing gear it woulda managed the trip properly. It's a little tricky to handle and requires a full power 80-degree dive to punch through the atmosphere, but it works!

Edited May 6, 2014 by Fendleton

[phoenix_ca]

This thread is awesome. Methinks I'll take a stab at this.

[C.A.Sizemore]

We took off KSC in a KAX powered twin rotor prop plane just after Kerbol came over the horizon. She took off like a dream be cause we wanted day light, headed west she did not like to climb in fact I am sure we left some pair on that first set of mountains but she flew strong. She reached her flight ceiling of 7700m and stuck. With her engine s at 85% of throttle. We tried to speed up time she bucked and rolled. Once we recovered from the spin and regained our altitude, we flew on West chasing the dawn. 3 hours 35 minutes into the flight I heard someone rumbling with less an hour to go it struck, the Kraken ripped our ship from the sky.

Tomorrow will be another day and we will once again set our course for the second star on the right and go straight on til morning.