Controlling All Craft in Physics Range

[Claw]

Controlling All Craft Solved?

STOCK 0.23.5.464 (This fix has also been added to the list of common 0.23.5 bugs.)

DESCRIPTION:

With two craft in physics range, controlling one craft causes the other craft to also move.

I have found the bug and fix for this phantom ability to provide input to all craft in physics range. This applies to Kerbals on EVA near their landers and multiple craft near each other (on the ground or in orbit).

I think it's linked to the fact that craft maintain the trim state in the save file in 0.23.5 (this wasn't stored in 0.23).

So now when craft get near each other, inputs to the craft in focus causes the SAS to "override" on both craft. With the SAS overridden on the target craft, the only input it receives is the trim state. Whereas the craft in focus receives the user's input.

FIX (for those who can't wait): Switch to each craft in range and press ALT-X to zero out the trim.

HOW TO REPLICATE:

1) Make a Mk1 pod and hold it down with a TT-18A Launch Stability Enhancer (yes, just the two parts), and launch the craft with a kerbal on board.

2) Hold ALT-W to push the pitch trim all the way to 7 notches nose down. (Just short of max.)

3) Turn on SAS (important)

4) Stage to release the pod to the ground, then go EVA

5) Walk forward with your EVA kerbal

NOTES:

- Your keys to control the craft must be mapped to the same keys that control your kerbals walking.

-- For example: Both pitch/roll control and kerbal forward/backward/left/right is mapped to WASD like default.

-- If the keys are separate it doesn't work: WASD mapped to kerbal, Arrow keys mapped to ship. (I don't have them mapped the same, which is why I haven't seen this at all.)

- All trim axes are effected, not just pitch. (I just used pitch in the example.)

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Edited January 13, 2015 by Claw

[DeMatt]

Hrm... I'd never encountered the problem before, but it sounded funny, so I tried it out.

I was unable to replicate it with an EVA-ed Kerbal as my source of control; I assume this is due to the EVA's not needing SAS or trim functions. So my successful test setup looked like this:

It's worth noting that the SAS only "reverts to trim setting" on the axis (axes) which are being steered.

[Claw]

I certainly did it with an EVA kerbal. The key with that though is that your keybindings have to be the same. Walking forward/backward must be the same keys as pitch up/down. If they aren't mapped the same, then it doesn't work.

Your setup is removes the keybinding step because the controls for either cockpit are exactly the same.

If you have your EVA/ship keys mapped separately, go ahead and give your ship keys a try when EVA. It will still do it.

For example, I have my "Staging UI" Rotation keys bound to the numeric keypad arrows. My kerbal's move keys are bound to WASD. If I do my example above and stage, walking my kerbal around with WASD does nothing. However, pressing my numeric keypad arrows (while in control of the EVA kerbal) causes the pod to flip.

I suspect that some people are inadvertently pressing ALT with their palms while controlling the ship with WASD. In the past, trim states were dumped when you switched ships so it didn't matter. Now they are saved in the savefile and activate when you get close.

Edited April 27, 2014 by Claw

[DeMatt]

I certainly did it with an EVA kerbal. The key with that though is that your keybindings have to be the same. Walking forward/backward must be the same keys as pitch up/down. If they aren't mapped the same, then it doesn't work.

Your setup is removes the keybinding step because the controls for either cockpit are exactly the same.

My keys for "walk forwards/backwards" and "pitch up/down" ARE the same (they never got changed from the default). That's why I posted that the bug didn't replicate for me with an EVA.

[Claw]

My keys for "walk forwards/backwards" and "pitch up/down" ARE the same (they never got changed from the default). That's why I posted that the bug didn't replicate for me with an EVA.

Hmm weird. I just tried it again with WASD and was able to do it with EVA. I'm running windows. Are you using something different? Maybe there's an OS complication.

Either way, thanks for the extra info! (Apparently I can't vote for you again just yet... boo)

Edited April 27, 2014 by Claw

[DeMatt]

Hmm weird. I just tried it again with WASD and was able to do it with EVA. I'm running windows. Are you using something different? Maybe there's an OS complication.

Either way, thanks for the extra info!

I'm running Windows 7.

...Just to be sure, I stripped out my mods and tried it again. Apparently one of the mods I had was interfering somehow, because the unmodded installation did work with an EVA.

[Nuclear Arbitor]

encountered this bug today and it makes it impossible to dock my lander to my rocket. resetting trim does not fix it. it affects both my ships and my kerbals and they'll all control each other. i also have an issue where my lander will rapidly spin in circles with sas off, despite being in orbit around the mun and not having any thrusters firing. i'm going to dig into the save file and see if i can find anything about the trim.

[Nuclear Arbitor]

can't edit my post yet since i have less then 10 but i did find some non-0 trim values in the save file. i'll see if zeroing them fixes things tomorrow.

[Claw]

can't edit my post yet since i have less then 10 but i did find some non-0 trim values in the save file. i'll see if zeroing them fixes things tomorrow.

Make sure you reset trim on everything. Resetting trim only on the craft you are controlling will not fix it.

And welcome to the forums.

[Nuclear Arbitor]

not sure if you're referring to the save file or using alt x but setting all the trim values in the save file back to 0 did fix it. most of them were the same value but that may have been multiple parts on the same craft, i didn't notice what the values were for.