Is Asparagus obsolete with SLS?

[Eric S]

Fuel line flow limitations would put a serious damper on asparagus staging, too. The better question is, do we want asparagus staging to go away?

Actually, attacking the fuel lines would be the best way to attack asparagus staging if you wanted to reduce or eliminate its use in KSP. Asparagus staging is the natural reaction to 1) Low TWR engines, 2) High dry mass fuel tanks, and 3) perfectly reliable, zero mass infinite flow fuel lines. Changing either of the other two conditions would require massive rebalancing, and I'm not sure where that would end up. Tinkering with fuel lines also has issues, as it's really hard to prohibit asparagus staging without prohibiting drop tanks and many other things that are considered perfectly reasonable.

Realistic aerodynamics won't do it. Even with more realistic aerodynamics, the gain of asparagus over the traditional stack is a bigger factor than the aerodynamic resistance until you reach "pancake" launchers.

Given that asparagus staging is the natural reaction to the KSP technology, I don't have a problem with it.

[landeTLS]

I did make a stock asparagus with the 3.75m sls parts. The main problem was reliably clearing the spent stages without crashing into the centerstage. I basically just gave up after putting 6 seperatrons on each tank and stuck a small srb on there instead:D it did work tho

[magnemoe]

Actually, attacking the fuel lines would be the best way to attack asparagus staging if you wanted to reduce or eliminate its use in KSP. Asparagus staging is the natural reaction to 1) Low TWR engines, 2) High dry mass fuel tanks, and 3) perfectly reliable, zero mass infinite flow fuel lines. Changing either of the other two conditions would require massive rebalancing, and I'm not sure where that would end up. Tinkering with fuel lines also has issues, as it's really hard to prohibit asparagus staging without prohibiting drop tanks and many other things that are considered perfectly reasonable.

Realistic aerodynamics won't do it. Even with more realistic aerodynamics, the gain of asparagus over the traditional stack is a bigger factor than the aerodynamic resistance until you reach "pancake" launchers.

Given that asparagus staging is the natural reaction to the KSP technology, I don't have a problem with it.

Yes, add that the daisy chaining of fuel tanks is an gameplay mechanism of using multiple drop tanks who is used in real world however in RL you select who tank to draw fuel from using pumps and valves in ksp you draw fuel lines.

Fuel is not actually pumped from tank to tank, if you drain some fuel from the upper stages its not refueled, this is also realistic, you pump fuel directly to the engines not into tanks.

[magnemoe]

Here is the missing page.

The original concept backs up what I said. You've gotta have boosters feeding boosters and them dropping off in pairs when empty. Otherwise it's not asparagus, it's onion staging (I have no idea if the term onion staging pre-dates KSP or not).

http://m.radd.it/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/1uyx29/any_publications_on_asparagus_staging/

I wonder how they would do the piping, 4 booster asparagus should be doable but would require 3 times as complex piping as 2 booster cross-feed.

[Kasuha]

It may be just my opinion but I think that after a while it is clear that the answer to the question in title of this thread is No.

Larger rocket parts and stronger connections only shifted the mass limit where asparagus staging is needed, and I must say that I do enjoy the fact that I don't have to bother with 7-stalk plumbing and staging setup if I can lift my payload with just one or three (although I still call the three-stalk design "asparagus" because in my opinion it's the fuel crossfeed that makes it one).

The discussion whether asparagus staging is realistic or not is in my opinion not very relevant to the topic. It may not be used in real world for well known technical reasons but there are definitely attempts to go that way for the same reasons why it is used in KSP. The same applies to SSTOs and spaceplanes, by the way.

And the rest here is again the good old "I don't want others to play this way because I think it is cheating". Let's return to the roots - KSP is still a single-player game (except for challenges) so it's up to every single person to decide what is cheating and what is not. If you like building realistic-looking rockets, nobody forces you to set up asparagus. SLS just gave you new tools to build better rockets. And if you rather abstract yourself from real world and build things that work best in game world, nobody forces you to build realistic looking rockets. SLS just gave you new tools to build better rockets.

[Moar Boosters]

I wonder how they would do the piping, 4 booster asparagus should be doable but would require 3 times as complex piping as 2 booster cross-feed.

Well it'd be the same as how we build asparagus rockets. With loads of complicated piping and fuel sloshing around between the boosters before going into the core. The whole concept is a level above a simple crossfeed rocket like what spacex are developing.

A quick google search doesn't find anything for "onion staging" that pre-dates KSP, so I guess that term does come directly from the community..... however the concept is much older. The first reference for asparagus comes from that 1997 book, however the soviets had plans for cross-feed boosters (ie onion staging) on their cancelled UR-700 rocket which was designed in the 60's.

[Mipe]

Why is it called onion staging?

Because it makes you cry when you cut it.

[NecroBones]

Because it makes you cry when you cut it.

Cutting the engines always makes me want to cry.

100% throttle, all the way, yeah baby!!

[Karla]

Obsolete? Naaaah!

[Red Iron Crown]

Karla, I applaud your highly efficient and realistic rocket design.

[Tank Buddy]

It's only obsolete if you believe it is so.