Kerbal Shuttle Challenge

[NavalLacrosse]

To imbed the Imgur images:

I create an album, make it horizontal layout.

In the URL

http:/ /imgur. com /a/3rr4rq-84

make [ IMGUR ] 3rr4rq [/imgUR]

see if that helps!

[Kadrian]

Thanks NavalLacrosse, think it was my newbie status that blocked advanced embeds. Will try the [imgUR] commands, that schould keep things simple in the future. Much apprechiated.

[Northstar1989]

-The shuttle must complete the challenge in a single mission. Refueling at a fuel depot is allowed only for missions whose target location is outside of Kerbin SOI.

What counts as outside of Kerbin's SOI? Does that mean it can refuel in Kerbol orbit? Around the Mun/Minmus?

Also, why is Minmus worth less points than the Mun to orbit? It takes more Delta-V to get to Minmus and circularize due to the weaker gravity well and higher/inclined orbit.

Further, what's this about the B9 Aerospace 0.23.5 update? I haven't updated B9 in a while, so it's probably still on the last version before that. Was it somehow re-balanced with the update? Would my entry be DQ'd for using the older version on B9?

Finally, you *might* want to consider limiting KSP-Interstellar to Molten-Sodium and Solid Bed fission reactors only. Otherwise, the modded scoreboard is going to be wiped with antimatter-reactor entries...

Regards,

Northstar

[Raven.]

What counts as outside of Kerbin's SOI? Does that mean it can refuel in Kerbol orbit? Around the Mun/Minmus?

Out of Kerbin's SOI means any planet/moon other than Kerbin. Yes, the fuel depot can be in Kerbin orbit.

Also, why is Minmus worth less points than the Mun to orbit? It takes more Delta-V to get to Minmus and circularize due to the weaker gravity well and higher/inclined orbit.

The score is based off of this chart:

Which shows that it takes less delta-v to travel from low Kerbin orbit to Low Minmus orbit than it does to travel from low Kerbin orbit to low Mun orbit.

Further, what's this about the B9 Aerospace 0.23.5 update? I haven't updated B9 in a while, so it's probably still on the last version before that. Was it somehow re-balanced with the update? Would my entry be DQ'd for using the older version on B9?

B9 0.23.5 patch is here: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/66020-B9-0-23-fixes

And no, you will not be disqualified for using B9 version 4c with no patches.

Finally, you *might* want to consider limiting KSP-Interstellar to Molten-Sodium and Solid Bed fission reactors only. Otherwise, the modded scoreboard is going to be wiped with antimatter-reactor entries...

Regards,

Northstar

I did consider Interstellar when designing the score system. I use Interstellar in my own game quite a substantial bit, to the point to where it is what I consider to be an essential mod, along with B9 and FAR. I feel like it is balanced considering the limitations that Interstellar itself uses to balance itself out with the rest of the game.

[Northstar1989]

Out of Kerbin's SOI means any planet/moon other than Kerbin. Yes, the fuel depot can be in Kerbin orbit.

So the Mun? Minmus?

The score is based off of this chart:

http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/w/images/7/73/KerbinDeltaVMap.png

Which shows that it takes less delta-v to travel from low Kerbin orbit to Low Minmus orbit than it does to travel from low Kerbin orbit to low Mun orbit.

That's a VERY optimistic Minmus transfer they show there... I'm not sure something requiring that little Delta-V would be realistic most of the time...

B9 0.23.5 patch is here: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/66020-B9-0-23-fixes

And no, you will not be disqualified for using B9 version 4c with no patches.

I actually installed those fixes a while back, and they didn't work for me. The SABRE engines were just as buggy/broken as ever, in particular...

I did consider Interstellar when designing the score system. I use Interstellar in my own game quite a substantial bit, to the point to where it is what I consider to be an essential mod, along with B9 and FAR. I feel like it is balanced considering the limitations that Interstellar itself uses to balance itself out with the rest of the game.

For the fission reactors, sure. But I REALLY wouldn't say so with the fusion and antimatter reactors... The mod is more focused on realism than balance. The result is, quite naturally, some futuristic technologies are leaps and bounds ahead of anything else in KSP...

That being said, I have no problem with those features being in the mod, I play with the mod a lot myself- I only think that the future reactor types should be quite explicitly off-limits for most competitive challenges, or at least given scoring penalties...

Regards,

Northstar

[Raven.]

So the Mun? Minmus?

Yup, you can refuel if going to the Mun or Minmus.

[Damaske]

Can we use the main tank/boosters from KSO as long as the shuttle itself is not from the KSO.

[Raven.]

Can we use the main tank/boosters from KSO as long as the shuttle itself is not from the KSO.

Yup, you sure can.

[Valley]

This is my toss into the ring as it were. I delivered 1.165 tons into a stable but not circular orbit beyond 70 KM. It uses one mod, MechJeb 2.

I made a video, editing out the boring parts or the menu clicking as I tried to get MechJeb 2 and my crazy shuttle to work together. You may notice it has more equipment than it really needed - I plan to see if I can dock it to stations in orbit in the future (if I plan to work on it). All information should be available in the video as I checked the map and other displays during the flight.

My shuttle was not on top or piggybacking, more like sandwiched, so maybe I should get The BLT Distinction.

The Whiskey-Tango-Foxtrot Distinction as the first stage seemed to want to flip over. The rockets are not properly attached to the shuttle so it has issues during launch.

The Ace Distinction because it was manned.

The Certified Badass Distinction because it was really made within a few days - I had to reinvent the wheel as I have no idea how to make shuttles or jets. I am surprised it did anything at all.

[mojobojo]

I had actually just made a video showcasing my shuttle here is an album and the video showing it off.

Video, I hope you don't mind its commentated

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTV-0A-AdNI

Image album

Javascript is disabled. View full album

I also have a huge dropbox album where I screenshot all my missions.

Mods are used, the mod list

• B9 Aerospace - Body
  
• Procedural Wing - Wings
  
• Nova Punch - Engine and fuel tanks
  
• KSO - The docking adapter (removable, does not effect the performance of the shuttle)
  
• FusTek - Docking Adapter (removable, does not effect the performance of the shuttle)
  
• Real Chutes Mod - The landing parachutes
  
• Ferram Aerospace - Aerodynamics Enchancments
  
• Tweakable Parameters - Tweaked the engine gimball and thrust to balance it out (did my best to prevent overpowering)
  

This shuttle has contributed to building 100% of my space station. This station was put up in about a 45 degree inclination. The max payload is one orange fuel tank (and a little bit more if I don't have the docking module attached)

A previous version of my shuttle had a robotic arm. This was scrubbed because ferram aerospace was not cooperating with it and it was warping on launch and reentry and causing instability. I am still looking to remedy this.

Download this craft file here

Edited June 21, 2014 by mojobojo

[Raven.]

This is my toss into the ring as it were. I delivered 1.165 tons into a stable but not circular orbit beyond 70 KM. It uses one mod, MechJeb 2.

I made a video, editing out the boring parts or the menu clicking as I tried to get MechJeb 2 and my crazy shuttle to work together. You may notice it has more equipment than it really needed - I plan to see if I can dock it to stations in orbit in the future (if I plan to work on it). All information should be available in the video as I checked the map and other displays during the flight.

My shuttle was not on top or piggybacking, more like sandwiched, so maybe I should get The BLT Distinction.

The Whiskey-Tango-Foxtrot Distinction as the first stage seemed to want to flip over. The rockets are not properly attached to the shuttle so it has issues during launch.

The Ace Distinction because it was manned.

The Certified Badass Distinction because it was really made within a few days - I had to reinvent the wheel as I have no idea how to make shuttles or jets. I am surprised it did anything at all.

Well, here's what we got:

Altitude Score: The semi-major axis was ((133.246 km + 75.1 lm)/2) + 600 = 704.174. The altitude score was 704.174 * 0.1 = 70.4174.

Payload Score: The payload score was 1.165 * 100 = 116.5

SOI Score: 0, the shuttle stayed in Kerbin orbit.

Total Score: 1000 (Completion) + 70.4174 (Altitude) + 116.5 (Payload) = 1186.9174

The "BLT" shuttles as you described them, are always a grey area. Really they boil down to a judgement call. In this particular case, I'm giving you the Jebidiah Distinction with emphasis on BLT Shuttle design.

Also, the shuttle earned:

The Squad Distinction: The shuttle was completely stock.

The Ace Distinction: The shuttle was a manned shuttle.

The Whiskey-Tango-Foxtrot Distinction: The shuttle, should had by all rights crashed and burned.

I had actually just made a video showcasing my shuttle here is an album and the video showing it off.

Video, I hope you don't mind its commentated

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTV-0A-AdNI

Image album

http://imgur.com/a/6jOqk

I also have a huge dropbox album where I screenshot all my missions.

Mods are used, the mod list

• B9 Aerospace - Body
  
• Procedural Wing - Wings
  
• Nova Punch - Engine and fuel tanks
  
• KSO - The docking adapter (removable, does not effect the performance of the shuttle)
  
• FusTek - Docking Adapter (removable, does not effect the performance of the shuttle)
  
• Real Chutes Mod - The landing parachutes
  
• Ferram Aerospace - Aerodynamics Enchancments
  
• Tweakable Parameters - Tweaked the engine gimball and thrust to balance it out (did my best to prevent overpowering)
  

This shuttle has contributed to building 100% of my space station. This station was put up in about a 45 degree inclination. The max payload is one orange fuel tank (and a little bit more if I don't have the docking module attached)

http://i.imgur.com/e6swl4h.png

https://www.dropbox.com/meta_dl/eyJzdWJfcGF0aCI6ICIiLCAidGVzdF9saW5rIjogZmFsc2UsICJzZXJ2ZXIiOiAiZGwuZHJvcGJveHVzZXJjb250ZW50LmNvbSIsICJpdGVtX2lkIjogbnVsbCwgImlzX2RpciI6IGZhbHNlLCAidGtleSI6ICJmOHFuN3h3OHI4bGI1ZTQifQ/AAKHbtJC4QS4XETFjYccO4J5ZAkdxIN5asayOeO7xIpbTw?dl=1

A previous version of my shuttle had a robotic arm. This was scrubbed because ferram aerospace was not cooperating with it and it was warping on launch and reentry and causing instability. I am still looking to remedy this.

https://www.dropbox.com/meta_dl/eyJzdWJfcGF0aCI6ICIiLCAidGVzdF9saW5rIjogZmFsc2UsICJzZXJ2ZXIiOiAiZGwuZHJvcGJveHVzZXJjb250ZW50LmNvbSIsICJpdGVtX2lkIjogbnVsbCwgImlzX2RpciI6IGZhbHNlLCAidGtleSI6ICJncWN6bjFlazc0NGV6ajkifQ/AAIJj46af7aa2U5DO3GPj8ZKZ6kJNlaeAhN0sVdGEMG4Qg?dl=1

mojobojo, that is a very nice shuttle. I've been waiting for a while for someone to build a shuttle based on the HL fuselage from B9, as the potential payload score is nuts with that mod. One thing though, I need the final periapsis and apoapsis of the payload, along with the weight of the payload in tonns.

Interestingly enough, I've had similar trouble with the IR mod. The example shuttle in this challenge was suppose to have a smaller arm made from the newer IR rework parts. The arm would behave until reentry, in which case it would cause the shuttle to list to one direction (not a good thing with FAR). I think Zodius, the guy making the new models, just recently released a new strut that is also a decoupler that's meant for the purpose of securing an IR arm during flight.

Edited June 1, 2014 by Raven.

[Itoum]

This is my shot at this challenge

Mods that i use 1-B9 Aerospace (Fuselage and Crew Cabin)

2-Procedural Parts (Fuel Tank and Wings)

3-FASA (Clamps on the Launch pad)

4-FAR

5-Magic Smoke Industries

6-Dromoman (Shuttle arm)

7-KAS (Magnet)

8-Klockheed Martian (Shuttle Engine)

9-Remote Tech 2 (Comms)

10-MechJeb 2

Lol i use more than this but those are the ones i used on the Shuttle

So here it is

Name: Kolombia

Crew: 4

Mission: 1-Rendez-Vous with Kopernicus for a crew transfer

2-Deliver Payload to a 500KM orbit

3-Land safely at KSC

http://imgur.com/a/hesKL/all

Edited June 2, 2014 by Itoum
Image didnt show up

[Raven.]

This is my shot at this challenge

Mods that i use 1-B9 Aerospace (Fuselage and Crew Cabin)

2-Procedural Parts (Fuel Tank and Wings)

3-FASA (Clamps on the Launch pad)

4-FAR

5-Magic Smoke Industries

6-Dromoman (Shuttle arm)

7-KAS (Magnet)

8-Klockheed Martian (Shuttle Engine)

9-Remote Tech 2 (Comms)

10-MechJeb 2

Lol i use more than this but those are the ones i used on the Shuttle

So here it is

Name: Kolombia

Crew: 4

Mission: 1-Rendez-Vous with Kopernicus for a crew transfer

2-Deliver Payload to a 500KM orbit

3-Land safely at KSC

http://imgur.com/a/hesKL/all

Nice job, I like that shuttle. Here's the breakdown on the score:

Altitude Score: (((500.165 (periapsis)+500.829 (apoapsis))/2) + 600) * 0.1 = 110.0497

Payload Score: 4.332 * 100 = 433.2

SOI Score: 0

Total Score: 1000 (Completion) + 110.0497 (Altitude) + 433.2 (Payload) = 1543.2497

The awards are as follows:

The Piggyback Distinction: The shuttle launched piggybacked upon an external fuel

The Highflier Distinction: Achieved an altitude higher than 250 km.

The Ace Distinction: The shuttle was a manned shuttle.

[Itoum]

Prototype K-37

6 man crew

2m Cargo Bay up to 7 tons payload

Dry testing successful !

https://imgur.com/a/Gtpf3#0

Inspiration

http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/onepercent/2011/10/hypersonic-x-37-spaceplane-cou.html

Tell me what u think !!

Edited June 3, 2014 by Itoum

[Spartwo]

Do 2 undetachable hitchhikers count as payload?

[mojobojo]

mojobojo, that is a very nice shuttle. I've been waiting for a while for someone to build a shuttle based on the HL fuselage from B9, as the potential payload score is nuts with that mod. One thing though, I need the final periapsis and apoapsis of the payload, along with the weight of the payload in tonns.

Would it be cheating if I launch an an orange tank in the cargo bay and use it as extra fuel?

[Valley]

BTW, Raven, thanks for the challenge. This is my first challenge and first development of a shuttle in the game.

[Raven.]

Would it be cheating if I launch an an orange tank in the cargo bay and use it as extra fuel?

I don't see why it would be considered cheating. So to answer your question, no it's not cheating.

Do 2 undetachable hitchhikers count as payload?

Payload is simply the "stuff" that is detached and put into a final orbit. Such as a communications satellite for example. If it doesn't detach, it's not payload.

BTW, Raven, thanks for the challenge. This is my first challenge and first development of a shuttle in the game.

Thank you for taking the challenge.

[Spartwo]

Right, time for some redesigning then.

[Northstar1989]

Normally I don't post my failures (I consider them "simulations", as most of these problems could have been easily predicted with a little structural analysis, etc., by real-life engineers), but in this case, I want the "Sparky" distinction in addition to some of the other ones, so...

Enjoy this massive FAIL. Surprisingly, nobody got hurt in this incident- although a few Kerbonauts must have been rattled by the Liquid Booster that embedded itself in the roof of the Astronaut complex...

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Note this is essentially the same design I will be using for the challenge (only with stronger decouplers and some struts on the SRB's to prevent them ripping themselves off the launch platform like this in the real thing...)

My challenge submission might also have MOAR BOOSTERS! Because clearly, that's the solution to everything... (only in this case, it actually might be, since additional boosters reduces the load on each decoupler- each SRB has to "lift" less of the rest of the vehicle- which has TWR less than 1 on the launchpad without the SRB's...)

The Mods (same as for the challenge entry)

B9 Aerospace (cockpit, adapter, one reaction wheel, frontal canards)

Novapunch2 (rocket/boosters, shuttle LFO fuselage, struts on challenge vehicle)

Procedural Dynamics (aka. 'Procedural Wings'- main wings, rear control surfaces)

KSP-Interstellar (thermal rocket nozzle, thermal receiver, microwave power/relay network enabling them to function, payload)

MechJeb2 (for guidance/navigation)

MechJeb and RemoteTech for all (removes need for a separate MechJeb part by adding the functionality to cockpits, slightly reducing part-count/lag)

TAC Fuel Balancer (fuel balancing on challenge run)

Regards,

Northstar

Edited June 5, 2014 by Northstar1989

[Northstar1989]

I present, the KSS Nyrmidon: (updates as the mission progresses)

Same mods as in the last launch of it with fewer boosters/struts and a shorter launch platform (that crashed and burned), by the way...

Here she is on her way to the Mun to deliver her payloads... (radiators and an ISRU reactor for my planned Munar base- which the shuttle will leave in orbit, but a skycrane I sent on a different launch will take to the surface...) I'll have to do another run with this shuttle later, with larger payloads- since I could easily mop up a lot more points by delivering two larger payloads to both the Mun and Minmus...

Javascript is disabled. View full album

She wasn't christened the "Nyrmidon" until after she made it to orbit- it's bad luck to christen a ship before her first successful voyage.

And her arrival and capture at the Mun... (the rendezvous with my Munar space station is to *drop off* fuel, rather than to pick it up- the Nyrmidon has more than enough fuel to make it back to the KSC)

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Here's the Nyrmidon dropping off her payload at my Munar space station, and then getting the heck out of there because having that many parts loaded (and an issue with running an outdated version of KAS with 0.23.5) was casuing Kraken attacks if I lingered for too long...

Javascript is disabled. View full album

And the burn back to Kerbin:

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Unfortunately you guys will have to wait a bit for the landing pics- I had to shut down KSP for the night so I could update KAS (I need to use it to add some OX-STAT panels to the skycrane- otherwise the payload I brought up to the Mun will be absolutely worthless) before the skycrane drifted too far away... Also, I was worried re-loading the vessel without a KAS update might cause a Kraken attack that would destroy my spacedock my spacedock- as I've already experienced several such Kraken-attacks brought on by running an old pre-0.23.5 version of KAS in an ARM mission I took on earlier...

Regards,

Northstar

P.S. Loaded KSP up again today- will have my entry done *SOON* . I was inspired to try something crazy first though that I came across last night when updating Kerbal Attachment System- Kerbal skydiving! Why not check out my challenge for that?

Edited June 6, 2014 by Northstar1989

[Northstar1989]

OK, I originally going to put this into my previous post, but there were enough pictures and text that it would be a bit overwhelming...

Anyways, so I brought in the KSS Nyrmidon to Kerbin, first making an aerobrake pass that lowered my apoapsis:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Then, I went in for the landing...

I used several F5/F9 attempts- but I just couldn't seem to fine-tune the periapsis to the right location or height- every time I either overshot the KSC or didn't have enough fuel/speed/altitude to make it over the mountains west of the KSC...

Eventually though, through quicksaves, I ended up locking in a route that looked good:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Unfortunately, though, the game was being its usual buggy/whiny self. The Nyrmidon is a completely symmetrical design (both top/bottom and left/right- the only parts that even deviate from top/bottom symmetry are massless, and thus shouldn't affect its flight *AT ALL*), yet it insisted on contniuously yawing to the left as if there was something there. I've heard of this bug before, so I know it has something to do with parts that failed to place during symmetry mode in the SPH still being there as "ghosts" that affect the physics simulations- even though no actual parts are there.

But I'm not aware of any way to fix it once a craft was deployed, so I had to live with it the whole flight (maybe if I had paid more attention to the slight yawing during ascent from Kerbin initially, I could have reverted and rebuilt the craft from scratch exactly the same to fix the bug...) Unfortunately, the result was a bad spin-out from yaw over the mountains west of the KSC (despite having the nose indicator *precisely* on the prograde vector and having no angular momentum whatsoever before it started), which killed most all of my forward velocity and required a large proportion of my remaining fuel to pull out.

But pull out I did- here is the Nyrmidon after (just barely) recovering from this near-fatal spin (I ended up with the Nyrmidon spinning like a corkscrew about its long axis at one point in the spin, unresponsive to anti-roll Q/E controls- so I hit full throttle on the engine until my heading matched my prograde vector, and then I was able to pull out of it... I HATE the horrible stock aerodynamics model now more than ever...)

As you can see, the Nyrmidon didn't have much speed, altitude, or fuel left; and the runway was still a bit away. I did my best to reach it however- but ran out of fuel a bit short...

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Gliding didn't quite get me the rest of the way- but what it DID do was bring me to the base of the final mini-hill just before the runway...

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So I attempted to simply coast along the ground the rest of the way to make it those last couple hundred meters onto the end of the runway...

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And made it all the way to the KSC runway, but didn't *quite* make it up that final mini-incline of the last few meters right before the end of the runway, as you can see.

It's up to the thread author what he wants to do with this entry, but I would ask that he qualify it because

(a) The Nyrmidon only failed to make it to the KSC Runway after a well set-up approach due to a bug (ghost images of parts from the SPH receiving physics simulation- this is the first time I've encountered this in a long time, but I hear reports of it on the forums every now and then from other players as well) that caused an unrealistic and baseless spin-out while pointed directly on the prograde vector (when pointed in precisely the direction of movement, there should be NO yaw forces on a symmetrical plane- and *certainly* none strong enough to overcome canted control surfaces AND reaction wheels...)

( The Nyrmidon made it to the runway, basically. It didn't actually land on the runway, but after a VERY short period of time on the ground (only 6 minutes), it managed to roll the rest of the way there from momentum leftover from its touchdown

© The Nyrmidon was easily capable of making a safe landing on the runway. It did it, after all, on the much less forgiving and bumpy terrain of hilly non-KSC grounds to the west...

(d) The Nyrmidon did all this without a single refueling- in fact after *donating* a portion of its fuel to one of my fuel depots. It could have made the runway if I kept all its original fuel...

Anyways, as always, up to the challenge's author. But I hope he'll be forgiving here of a couple hundred meters distance from the runway, especially in light of the known bug I was facing... (I *might* have to re-install KSP soon, as I am encountering more and more bugs- but I'm trying to hold out until the 0.24 update, whenever that comes around, and preferably also until some of the mods I use have updated for it as well...)

EDIT: By the way, each payload weighted almost exactly 2.5 tons (2.500 and 2.505 metric tons, to be precise)

Regards,

Northstar

Edited June 8, 2014 by Northstar1989

[Raven.]

Looking really good Northstar, the only thing I need now is a combined weight of the two payloads dropped off, and then we'll have a score.

So far I have you down for:

The Jebidiah Distinction: The shuttle launched on top of a rocket.

The Highflier Distinction: The shuttle went much higher than 250 km.

The Ares Distinction: The shuttle obtained an orbit around another celestial body

The Ace Distinction: The shuttle is piloted by Bill Kerman.

The Sparky Award: The shuttle crashed and burned during testing.

And made it all the way to the KSC runway, but didn't *quite* make it up that final mini-incline of the last few meters right before the end of the runway, as you can see.

Close enough, it qualifies. Just give me a payload weight and we're good.

[Mazlem]

I made a shuttle called KSS Benign out of B9 Aerospace parts. Took the easy way I guess and sandwiched it between two liquid fuel boosters. Launched it into a temporary 84km x 79km orbit, then into a 200km x 200km orbit at the Mun. Dropped off a 1.97 ton comms satellite there. Then landed it back at the KSC runway at dawn.

[Raven.]

I made a shuttle called KSS Benign out of B9 Aerospace parts. Took the easy way I guess and sandwiched it between two liquid fuel boosters. Launched it into a temporary 84km x 79km orbit, then into a 200km x 200km orbit at the Mun. Dropped off a 1.97 ton comms satellite there. Then landed it back at the KSC runway at dawn.

Good job, good to see another B9 submission. Here's what we got:

Altitude Score: A semi-major axis of 12,000 km was used. This is the semi-major axis of the Mun. So the altitude score was 1200.

Payload Score: 1.97 tonns * 100 = 197

SOI Score: Payload was delivered to Mun orbit, so the SOI score was 1070.

Total Score: 1000 (completion) + 1200 (Altitude) + 197 (payload) + 1070 (SOI) = 3467

The awards earned are:

The Piggyback Distinction: The shuttle was launched piggybacked on two rocket boosters.

The Highflier Distinction: The shuttle went higher than 250 km.

The Ares Distinction: The shuttle achieved orbit around another celestial body.

The Ace Distinction: The shuttle was a manned shuttle.