So, that mega black hole at the center of the galaxy... might be a worm hole

[vger]

I'm pretty skeptical, but it's quite interesting to think about nonetheless.

https://medium.com/the-physics-arxiv-blog/bb5ae64fa4fa

[rtxoff]

So, what's the dV requirement reaching it?

[Sirrobert]

Interesting.

My first thought was 'well than why don't we throw a robot in, and if we get a signal back from somewhere, it's a wormhole?'

Fortunatly, it didn't take me long to realize the obvious flaws in that logic

So, what's the dV requirement reaching it?

What's the sun's orbital velocity?

[vger]

Interesting.My first thought was 'well than why don't we throw a robot in, and if we get a signal back from somewhere, it's a wormhole?'

Fortunatly, it didn't take me long to realize the obvious flaws in that logic

Well, technically if the probe had a strong enough transmitter, it'd work.

... if you don't mind potentially waiting a billion years for the signal to get back to Earth.

[Sirrobert]

Well, technically if the probe had a strong enough transmitter, it'd work.

... if you don't mind potentially waiting a billion years for the signal to get back to Earth.

That's sortof what I meant with 'obvious flaws'

[rtxoff]

Well, orbital velocity of our sun around the center of the galaxy is ~220km/s. That's going to be a long burn. I guess the real dV requirement is more then that because some course corrections will be unavoidable.

[Sirrobert]

On the other hand, we could probably do alot of Gravity assists along the way.

So another question. How long would it take to go there, if you had enough deltaV to cancel out orbital velocity?

[meve12]

Well, orbital velocity of our sun around the center of the galaxy is ~220km/s. That's going to be a long burn. I guess the real dV requirement is more then that because some course corrections will be unavoidable.

I'll just point out that's going to be a slow route even for STL shipping. The galaxy might just age and die around you as it's stars burn out before you get there.

[rtxoff]

This is a question for some math guys, i was never good at math. But if i would guess, the orbital period of the sun is aprox. (2.25–2.50)×10⁸ years so aprox. you would travel 1/4 of that.

62 500 000 years....

[Awaras]

Wait, if it is a wormhole, then I guess all the gravity implies that it is a one way wormhole, since nothing can come out of it. That would imply that somewhere else in the universe (multiverse?) there has to be a "white hole" that does not attract anything to it spewing out all the stuff that falls into our black hole, right?

[Sirrobert]

Wait, if it is a wormhole, then I guess all the gravity implies that it is a one way wormhole, since nothing can come out of it. That would imply that somewhere else in the universe (multiverse?) there has to be a "white hole" that does not attract anything to it spewing out all the stuff that falls into our black hole, right?

I don't think that's how wormholes work

[Canopus]

Wait a second, isn't the theory that if you could survive the incredible Gravity, every rotating Black hole is possibly a passable wormhole? Whats so special about that then?

[N_las]

The title of the thread and of the linked article is misleading. It suggests some sicentist have found evidence that the black hole in the center of the galaxy might be a wormhole. In reality (outside of gonzo journalism), the physicists have described a way to tell black holes apart from wormholes by observing orbiting matter.

I would recommend everyone: Whenever you encounter a pice of science journalism, ignore it. Scroll over the page to find a link the the published paper. Read the abstract of the paper instead of the article. It is shorter and contains more information.

A journalist often doesn't care about what the original paper says. He simply writes stuff that will lead many people to read the article.

Here is the whole paper:

http://arxiv.org/pdf/1405.1883v1.pdf

(And the paper isn't even peer reviewed. Everything in there could just be nonsense.)

Edited May 17, 2014 by N_las

[SolarLiner]

Just to rectify things: Every black hole is a possible worm hole. Rotating black holes are more likely to be worm holes.

One simple rule: Once you go Faster than Light, we just don't know what happens. If we follow basic logic, going FTL would mean that we go back in time, staying in the same place. But, this is not the "same place", because time is one of the 4 dimensions of space. This is also the idea I support, but I am no scientific, and the "logic" is black-holey mind binding.

But why do we go FTL in the first place? Well, it's because each black hole is in fact a Singularity. A single point of space with infinite density, thus infinite gravity. So if you get close enough of the black hole, you will get attracted, and will not be able to go back. This is known as the Even Horizon. Below this altitude, nothing will escape the Endangered Black Hole - not even light. So what those guys talked about on the first page about the strength of the probe's antenna, is impossible, because light being electromagnetic, it behaves as radio waves, so nothing the probe will send will be ever received, because eaten by the Black Hole.

Physically too, there's a problem: Spaghettification. This is the tidal forces put to the extremes. The parts closer of the black hole ("on the bottom" as seen by the black hole's surface) would receive so much more gravitational pull than the parts on top that the object will stretch until dislocation. So yeah, well before it reaches the black hole the probe will be in pieces.

If you didn't understand everything, I got you covered, Vsauce explains it way better than I do:

[Everten P.]

What if we did a gravity assist with a closer black hole while going at warp?

C'mon guys think creatively

(also wormholes are NOT FTL, it is something that bends all of space. So it shortens the path but does not make us exactly faster. [Duh]

Edited May 17, 2014 by Everten P.
Forgot something

[SolarLiner]

(also wormholes are NOT FTL)

But to get trough, you'll have to hop into a black hole, passing the Event Horizon. So technically FTL.

[N_las]

But to get trough, you'll have to hop into a black hole, passing the Event Horizon. So technically FTL.

Passing the event horizont will not somehow get you to move faster than light.

[Camacha]

Wait, if it is a wormhole, then I guess all the gravity implies that it is a one way wormhole, since nothing can come out of it. That would imply that somewhere else in the universe (multiverse?) there has to be a "white hole" that does not attract anything to it spewing out all the stuff that falls into our black hole, right?

There is a theory that this is what the big bang is. That means our universe is actually the inside of a black hole and that there are other universes in the black holes we detect. Time, space and gravity do funky stuff on those scales/magnitudes.

I don't think that's how wormholes work

Apparently, it might be.

Edited May 17, 2014 by Camacha

[Rakaydos]

If we consider a wormhole a link between two points of 3-dimentional manifold, (even if impossible to cross becoause of event horizons) such as suggested by string theory, and we consider that in string theory gravity is not bound to 3 dimentions, then our galaxy will be applying a gravatational force (dilluted, perhaps, by the distance between the manifolds) to whatever is on the other side of the wormhole. Conversely, if there is a galazy-sized mass around the other side of the wormhole, it would presumably appply a gravatational force to us, though not otherwise interating with our space. Weakly interacting, massive objects...

[szputnyik]

This makes me think of that old Ren and Stimpy episode, in which they parody Star Trek and their spaceship gets sucked into a black hole, and they end up in a weird dimension of floating toasters and hideous museum exhibits, then start mutating into other animals.

[Skyler4856]

If this is indeed a wormhole, than where is the exotic matter?

[Cmdr. Arn1e]

um, I thought Black Holes converted everything they sucked in into various types of radiation that got spewed out of it's 'poles'? This is, as far as I'm aware, a proven - they have pointed various observing instruments at black holes, observed them sucking in matter and energy, then expelling it at 2 opposite points... a bit like a Pulsar.

If you follow Dr. Stephen Hawking, he surmises that they cannot be 'wormholes' as there is a core of matter in the centre, and that is what is so dense that nothing else can escape, so I guess that any matter pulled in will simply get added to the core, and any energy absorbed get super-compressed and expelled as a different type of energy (radiation in various forms, including Alpha and X-ray)...

heavy heavy subject! (sory for the bad pun )

[K^2]

This is a question for some math guys, i was never good at math. But if i would guess, the orbital period of the sun is aprox. (2.25–2.50)×10⁸ years so aprox. you would travel 1/4 of that.

62 500 000 years....

If Sun was orbiting a point mass, dropping straight down cuts semi-major axis in half, so you'd be looking at (1/2)*(1/2)^(3/2) = (1/4)/sqrt(2) of the period. In practice, as you move towards the center, effective mass will decrease, so it will take a bit longer. So yeah, 1/4 is probably close to truth.

Wait, if it is a wormhole, then I guess all the gravity implies that it is a one way wormhole, since nothing can come out of it. That would imply that somewhere else in the universe (multiverse?) there has to be a "white hole" that does not attract anything to it spewing out all the stuff that falls into our black hole, right?

No. The other side would also have an event horizon. It might be a wormhole, but nobody said that it's traversable. You can't pass through this wormhole without an FTL drive. Anything that goes in, from either side, would just get trapped in the middle.

If this is indeed a wormhole, than where is the exotic matter?

You don't need exotic matter to make a wormhole. You need exotic matter to make a traversable wormhole. See above.

um, I thought Black Holes converted everything they sucked in into various types of radiation that got spewed out of it's 'poles'? This is, as far as I'm aware, a proven - they have pointed various observing instruments at black holes, observed them sucking in matter and energy, then expelling it at 2 opposite points... a bit like a Pulsar.[/qote]

Nothing of the sort. There are jets generated by accretion disks, but the energy comes from potential energy of infalling matter on the way towards the black hole. Not from matter that has passed the event horizon.

If you follow Dr. Stephen Hawking, he surmises that they cannot be 'wormholes' as there is a core of matter in the centre, and that is what is so dense that nothing else can escape, so I guess that any matter pulled in will simply get added to the core, and any energy absorbed get super-compressed and expelled as a different type of energy (radiation in various forms, including Alpha and X-ray)...

Again, you've misunderstood something. Actually, quite a few things. There is no "core". There is a singularity. It can contain a huge amount of mass, but calling it matter is a bit silly. There is no distinction between matter and energy at that point. And wormholes will also have one of these. Except that matter of "center" is a bit blurry here.

Edited May 19, 2014 by K^2

[vger]

um, I thought Black Holes converted everything they sucked in into various types of radiation that got spewed out of it's 'poles'? This is, as far as I'm aware, a proven - they have pointed various observing instruments at black holes, observed them sucking in matter and energy, then expelling it at 2 opposite points... a bit like a Pulsar.

Well, yeah, you can prove that the poles are transmitting energy, and you can prove that stuff is getting sucked in.

But what happens in between is anyone's guess. Good luck proving that the X-rays are actually directly produced from the material it's feeding on.

[phoenix_ca]

Anything is provable (or disprovable) with enough mathematics.