Have Demo and Need help with Mun Landing

[SF-1 Raptor]

Ok.So I got the demo and really want to land on the Mun,but all my "Kerpallo" landers have either only reached orbit,reached Muner orbit,or crash.I now how to orbit and launched a small space station,but I can't land on the Mun.Any tips for how to do it in the demo?

[UmbralRaptor]

Less is more.

In general, it makes more sense to do a direct ascent mission, rather than an Apollo style LOR (moreso given the part limitations of the demo). Keeping payload mass down is also a good idea. What I used for a Mün landing when I was last messing around with the demo:

The general lander layout (a "toyota corolla") is good, though you might want to use 2 stages in the launcher instead of 1 to provide more margin. How do you typically fly your ascents and/or how do you plan to get to the Mün?

Edited May 21, 2014 by UmbralRaptor
Sure, break my image imgur...

[Bilfr3d]

Try to make each stage able to lift everything that is above it, and make bigger stages. Try making engine clusters to increase the amount of power you get on each 'cylinder' of fuel, so that you can get mainsail performance off of a small stack of fuel. You could then use those cluster boosters to radially attach on your launch stages to launch your thing. Hope this helps!!

[SF-1 Raptor]

Less is more.

In general, it makes more sense to do a direct ascent mission, rather than an Apollo style LOR (moreso given the part limitations of the demo). Keeping payload mass down is also a good idea. What I used for a Mün landing when I was last messing around with the demo:

https://imgur.com/txgmWd8

The general lander layout (a "toyota corolla") is good, though you might want to use 2 stages in the launcher instead of 1 to provide more margin. How do you typically fly your ascents and/or how do you plan to get to the Mün?

Ok.By ascents I guess your asking about how I get of Kerbin.I generally start just thrusting up and getting my highest point to around 120,000 meters,then stop thrusting.I then expand the sub-orbital path,and then set up an orbit from that.After that,I try to have a stage to push the lander to Mun,but generally only gets my halfway,so I have to use the lander.I then try to gain orbit,or,if in the right spot,just wait for Mun.This is where I fail.I've crashed,overshot,or just plan old miss my landing.

[SF-1 Raptor]

Try to make each stage able to lift everything that is above it, and make bigger stages. Try making engine clusters to increase the amount of power you get on each 'cylinder' of fuel, so that you can get mainsail performance off of a small stack of fuel. You could then use those cluster boosters to radially attach on your launch stages to launch your thing. Hope this helps!!

I tend to have 9 SBRs,and 9 liquid fuel rockets in the lift stage,with the lander+pusher stage on top.

[Taki117]

Ok.By ascents I guess your asking about how I get of Kerbin.I generally start just thrusting up and getting my highest point to around 120,000 meters,then stop thrusting.I then expand the sub-orbital path,and then set up an orbit from that.After that,I try to have a stage to push the lander to Mun,but generally only gets my halfway,so I have to use the lander.I then try to gain orbit,or,if in the right spot,just wait for Mun.This is where I fail.I've crashed,overshot,or just plan old miss my landing.

Try making a "Gravity Turn" At about 10km pitch over to 45 degrees (The first solid line on the navball) and a heading of 090 (at the bottom of the Navball, you should just be able to hit 'D' to do it) then watch your time to apoapsis, keep it at about 1 minute (By pitching up and down as needed) Once your apoapsis is about 80km cut throttle and set up a circularization maneuver. You should find that you have more than enough fuel for a Mun Trip now.

[SRV Ron]

Try making more efficient use of a design.

This one did Mun orbit and return. Had to use the RCS to return to an aerobraking landing.

This demo ship, a bit overpowered using asparagus staging once the SRB cans raise it to about 5000 meters, will have tons of fuel for landing and return.

A simpler design has landed on Minmus in 0.23.5 and returned.

[Claw]

I think I found my first rocket that I landed on the Mun. (Or at least very close to it.)

I threw MechJeb on to show the stats, but the rest is pulled directly from my demo copy. Turns out the rocket itself is overkill, but it provided a huge margin for error.

Really I think the big thing that helped me though is the second picture. That's a close up picture of the lander portion. I used fins because they have a much higher crash tolerance than the landing gear. This was pretty helpful when my first landings were not so gentle.

The last stage before the lander itself was used to bring the lander within around 3-5km of the surface. The small lander piece did the remainder portion of the landing itself and had plenty of fuel to make it back to Kerbin. The decouplers on the fins were to make sure they were low enough to keep the engine off the ground, but they also allowed the fins to be jettisoned after leaving the Mun.

The whole thing is pretty messy and not optimum, but I left it all as I had it when I played the demo.

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Edited May 21, 2014 by Claw

[kidolvski]

1. Burn untill you are at an altitude of 10.000 metres.

2. Turn to 90 degrees, and tilt your ship to 60-45 degrees.

3. Burn until your apoapsis reaches about 100.000 metres.

4. When it does, set up a maneuver node to circularise

5. Burn untill your orbit is circular.

6. Wait untill the mün rises, then burn untill you aquire an intercept.

7. Slow down when you are there to circularise your orbit around the mün.

8. Slow down some more to land.

9. here comes the hard part, you need to slow down so you can safely land.

10. A good rule of thumb is to try to keep your speed 1/10th of your altitude. For example; at 1.000 metres you want to be going around 100 ms^-1.

11. Touch down at a speed of about 2-5 ms^-1.

12. If you want to return to Kerbin take of facing kerbin. your Münar escape velocity is about 750 ms^-1.

13. Get into and orbit around Kerbin, Burn retrograde at apoapsis and land.

Hope this helped.

[SF-1 Raptor]

Try making a "Gravity Turn" At about 10km pitch over to 45 degrees (The first solid line on the navball) and a heading of 090 (at the bottom of the Navball, you should just be able to hit 'D' to do it) then watch your time to apoapsis, keep it at about 1 minute (By pitching up and down as needed) Once your apoapsis is about 80km cut throttle and set up a circularization maneuver. You should find that you have more than enough fuel for a Mun Trip now.

Ok.So at 10km hit "D" to do a gravity turn.Got it.Thank y'all for a the help!

[joekidd1992]

I just used this inelegant model to land on the Mun several times (2 times today, once yesterday) and today I landed for the first time on Minimus. Returned every time. It looks similar to another model here and I used it as my base. But, I changed out the boosters used for bigger orange ones. I'm no expert. I usually go to about 60 degrees elevation and of course the 90 degrees heading. Then at about 75K I start trying to do my orbit. If I can get the PE to about 75K that's what I shoot for. Once that happens, I usually have enough fuel in the 2nd stage to plot a course to the Mun. And then once I get there, I can plot an intercept, still with enough fuel. Then I can use even more leftover fuel to slow down my landing rate. I usually have to drop it before it runs out of fuel because I can't land with the 2nd stage on. Usually around 10K up from the Mun I let it separate off with engines turned off. It floats away then I crank up my landing stage. I usually land with about 75% fuel left in the final staghe and that has always been more than enough to take off, escape from Mun orbit, then plot intercept to Kerbin.

[SRV Ron]

A bit of overkill with jumbo tanks and skippers not available in the demo. The concept of a good design having enough fuel in the boost stage to start the landing procedure is a good one as well as allowing it to crash on Mun to clear space above from debris.

Note the probe lander in which the boost stage survived landing in the distance.

[GoSlash27]

This was the most efficient way I found to pull it off. It has no liquid fuel rockets, just RCS. I also sent a recovery vehicle with 2 capsules & parachute (no pics available). Both rode identical asparagus boosters with TMI stages pretty much like the others shown here.

Good luck!

-Slashy