New Gametype that Provides a Reason for Multi-Star System Play and DNS Items.

[Mazon Del]

Greetings everyone, just a foreward. Contained in the idea below ARE some items that are on the Do Not Suggest list. Which is why this is not intended to be a suggestion, so much as a discussion about the idea of the game mode itself. Pros, cons, how it provides reason to implement some items that are on the DNS list because (in addition to other reasons) nothing is gained by their addition. While it would be excellent for this system to be implemented in KSP, it likely requires enough additional unplanned features so as to be unlikely to be utilized.

Like many of you, I have been interested in the idea of there being alternate stars/planets/etc for the player to go to. However I also agree with the counter side to this when they say that given the current (and to an extent, the predicted) gameplay model, there really isn't much point in providing such a place. So after having thought if it for a while I came up with an idea for a game mode that could be an alternate to career/sandbox.

The situation:

Kerbal Astronomers and Physicists have come to the inescapable conclusion that there is something Bad coming towards the Kerbin solar system. Bad with a kapital B! The system only has about 10-15 years left before the Bad comes and destroys everything! Funding is immediately applied to the Kerbal Space Program, a group formerly made up of scientists with a large enough budget to advance their research but not large enough to really have made too many large milestones. Now, this isn't to say funding is unlimited! Oh no, many people disbelieve the Bad is real or believe that perhaps with bunkers they might survive. So, even though the KSP now has a useful budget to allow them to expand out into the system with larger rockets, research new technologies, etc, they are still somewhat limited in funding. As milestones occur (Mun-landing, Duna-landing, etc) the reputation system (however it is supposed to be implemented) does its thing to help provide you with more funds. As you research and create new telescopes (contract quests?) to provide better research data on the coming Bad, you will narrow down just how far away from Kerbin you must get to survive.

Your objective:

Construct a starship capable of reaching the next star system with a crew of Kerbals large enough to colonize and rebuild, except that it is not just a matter of getting to the next star system. It is a matter of getting to the one far enough away to survive! The Bad is always encroaching (much like in FTL: Faster than Light) at a very high rate of speed (maybe not c, but maybe a fraction of c, whatever makes sense given game speeds) and your ship will likely need to travel from system to system, collecting resources, growing out the population on board (building a bigger ship), and needing to take care of assorted problems. Obviously this system only particularly works well if there is an in game resource system for mining and such, so another thing that gains a reason. Additionally, there must be a reason for the player to do things beyond just travel, nom some asteroids, and move on.

To that end, the main option that I can see (which I know is technically forbidden, but hear me out) is actually to have these other star systems have alien civilizations that can provide you with contracts and challenges (keeping the funding/reputation system alive). You show up in orbit around Merbin and meet the Merbal people that at first they do not particularly like you, what with your gloom and doom discussion of the Bad, but when they/you discover the more immediate problem of a world ending asteroid heading towards Merbin you are given the contract of diverting the asteroid. Upon success, your local reputation has risen and now you have the ability to dock at one of their stations and trade with them. In this way, the player can be provided with special 'boon parts' they could not otherwise obtain from the research tree, or they gain research points towards a particular item in the tech tree, etc.

As you interact with these people, you can add some moral delimas for the player. For example, when you arrive above Merbin, you find out that there are two different space programs going on, one clearly has some fancy tech you might love to have, and all they are offering in exchange is that you have to de-orbit the other space programs stations. If you do, you get the rewards, but the other side phones ahead to other stars in revenge, lowering your reputation. Another example, the Merbin people soon become convinced of the existence of the Bad, but they do not have the time to build up a craft as you have. If you choose to build out your ship to carry onwards a group of Merbals similar to your Kerbal colonizers, then you get several plusses such as parts or resources, perhaps they even radio ahead to other stars (providing you a reputation boost when you arrive, global reputation) to tell them of your generosity. However, this of course brings about a downside, your starship grows ever larger and ever more massive, requiring more and more effort to push, requiring more fuel, more efficient engines, etc. Negative reputation can also have problems for you, not in a military way (given that SQUAD has stated no military), but it is quite possible for civilizations to refuse to provide you with resources, parts, research, or even worst of all actually sabotage you. Sabotage could be implemented in a few ways. Imagine trading for an engine with some pretty great stats, only to find out that the engine's heat capacity is so low that it cannot sustain full throttle for more than a few seconds. If you were not paying attention, you'd find out when suddenly the engine explodes leaving the craft in question without an engine (imagine that occuring and you crashing into your starship!). Maybe when you hook up to the station they steal some of your fuel or resources. Perhaps if you hook up to their station for fuel/resource transfer, when your shuttle docks it becomes part of the station (which you of course have no control over) and they do not allow you to take it back.

But all the while you are puttering around this solar system, the Bad is on its way! You daren't spend too much time here! Several years at most before it is time to burn for the next star. Is your starship capable of burning hard/fast enough carrying its precious load of survivors to reach the next star system and maybe have gained you some months/years in the process? Will you have arrived in a solar system with easily obtainable resources? Is there a civilization here willing to help you?

Difficulties:

It wouldn't be terribly hard to scale the difficulties in this game mode. There would be a balance of time until the Bad arrives, average amount of resources on planets, pre-set friendliness/hostility of other civilizations, etc.

It would be fascinating to watch peoples starships grow and evolve over their journey as they slap on additional crew modules to accomodate their own growth as well as new species, the addition of Moar Boosters to faster speeds, docking ports everywhere for the multitudes of craft you decide to bring with you like parasites, the sadness as you decide to leave behind faithful ships/shuttles/satellites because you do not need them weighing you down or it is otherwise impractical to carry them.

Thoughts?

[Captain Sierra]

As a concept, this effectively goes against everything the devs want to do with KSP. I like it! Very well thought out, very interesting concept.

The bad thing is this is beyond the capabilities of mods. It simply isn't doable without some massive additions to the stock code. As a later expansion, it might, just barely be possible to convince Squad to do this.

My only gripe is that you state this would give a reason to have ISRU, whereas, if you play with kethane or any other resource mod, you have motivations for ISRU operations. I use kethane to fuel my Joolian colonization architecture because its so much more efficient from an architecture standpoint to do that then to send fuel every transfer window.

[Mazon Del]

Thanks!

I pointed out that this would give a reason to have the ISRU is that last I had heard Squad had canceled their idea for a resourcing system or at least, put it on indefinite hold. I personally play with Kethane myself and would love very much for there to be some sort of stock resource system in KSP.

[technicalfool]

This is a nice idea, but I feel it doesn't actually go far enough.

How about being able to start the game with a number of scenarios? Players of the old Sim City are probably aware of things like the "Nuclear Disaster" scenario, "excessive traffic" scenario or "massive flooding" scenario. The game itself is still a city-building sandbox, but you start the game with an objective to achieve rather than just "build a metropolis".

The scenario you're on about could be called "Deep Impact". There could perhaps be another scenario based on a predicted massive Kerbolar flare. Maybe you could start the game with a fully functioning Duna base but they've had a critical malfunction and you have 60 days to get the parts to them and fix the problem?

The stock game probably would need to be modified quite a bit. I think having a "Scenario API" for modders would be part of it. But really, yes please.

[Mazon Del]

Indeed a scenario system would be something I would greatly enjoy, particularly if you could package a scenario with the mods it required, such that you wouldn't have to install the mods for all of your game, but instead you just load the scenario file and for the scenario you have the mods enabled. This would be very advantageous because it wouldn't rely on the players getting the mods themselves and more importantly, the right versions of said mods.

[RedPine]

It sounds like the feature you specifically want is to travel to new unexplored star systems, and complete challenges to "win" that star system in order to reach a new one star system - within a set time limit.

Currently, the barrier to multiple solar systems in the code are as follows:

1. Handling more planets requires more memory, in addition to recording player made object positions in relation to each planet.

2. Time warp is not powerful or stable enough for a player to reach another solar system in a decent amount of time.

3. The physics engine is not powerful enough to handle a large colonization ship or "Mother Ship"

4. KSP lacks a quest/contracts system that allows disaster scenario quest and event triggers (this changes in .24)

A solution would be as follows:

1. Only one solar system is in the save data at a time. The new solar system is procedurally generated as a new "save", and the star system escaped from is either "deleted" or archived as a SEPARATE save file.

2. A "Mother Ship" would be built as a plot device, using money from contracts. The player would not actually fly a mother ship between star systems. Instead a number of candidate star systems are discovered. When a player decides to go to a new star system, the old star system is deleted and the "Mother Ship" is teleported to a random orbit inside the new star system which is then procedurally generated.

3. This "Mother Ship" would act as a massive, single part, temporary launchpad with a small number of craft selected from the previous star system stored inside it. With these limited number of vehicles, the player would have to complete a small set of contracts and manually explore the star system to find a good location for a new KSC. The "Mother Ship" would then be destroyed to create a new KSC in a location of the player's choosing.