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[1.12.X] Tantares - Stockalike Soyuz and MIR [16.1][28.05.2024][Mars Expedition WIP]


Beale

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I am getting to IVAs for the Soyuz

Yup, sadly they're still a W.I.P. IVAs are coming along slowly, the Gemini one now is more or less done.

Honestly I don't even know if using three resources works, it'd be interesting to see! You may want to shoot Streetwind a PM for some help, he's the guy who statted up the Near Future engines so he knows his stuff.

I am out of my depth, the DV readings are very funky in the VAB! haha :)

I'll be sure to give the guy a message! Thanks.

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The limiting factor is how much heat you can dump into the fuel, a high-thrust resistojet would need truly enormous solar panels to match an equivalent electric-static rocket engine.

tag "In terms of ISP" onto the end and you'd be good. If you tried to pump enough heat into your fuel to achieve a level of isp that rivals an electrostatic system your engine would melt that simple the same is true with NTR's the advantage of thermal rockets is they have better thrust than electrostatics and better isp than chemical rockets.

there are ways around this of course arcjets replace the melting prone heating element with a hot raw electric arc raising the max temperature some what. electrodeless designs like vasimr can actually rival electrostatic isp by magnetically bottling the hot fuel away from anything structural, and on the nuclear front you have open cycle gas and liquid core designs.

but thrust is a different story so my point is you can't really say that resistojet technology is limited to fractions of a newton of thrust.

Edited by passinglurker
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my point is you can't really say that resistojet technology is limited to fractions of a newton of thrust.

18kN feels okay-ish (As in, not overpowered).

Of course, providing the electricity is trivial around Moho. Out there it's basically a chemical rocket in augmented mode.

In pure LF mode it still could take off under Moho gravity, but wasn't as swift.

You may notice a little "cool feature" (Which is probably wildly inaccurate) that the exhaust glows orange a little in augmented mode, plain white in pure LF mode.

@hoojiwana: "tri-propellant" works great after some tweaking! :) The Augmented mode needed the LF/OX ratios changed from 0.9/1.1 to 0.09/0.11 and everything works correctly.

18266097ad.jpg

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Wouldn't porkjets LANTERN serve as a good guide for determining the TWR? I'd probably give the LARJ a little more TWR(because some of the needed mass is detached as solar panels and batteries and because its get less hot and isn't radioactive so less shielding is needed) and a little less ISP(because again it doesn't get as hot) compared to porkjets LANTERN

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Wouldn't porkjets LANTERN serve as a good guide for determining the TWR? I'd probably give the LARJ a little more TWR(because some of the needed mass is detached as solar panels and batteries and because its get less hot and isn't radioactive so less shielding is needed) and a little less ISP(because again it doesn't get as hot) compared to porkjets LANTERN

Yup, I've been playing around with the numbers, but that is how it has basically ended up.

The fuel type means a LARJ powered craft or probe is going to be heavier than your typical electric engine vehicle, so hopefully the extra thrust it has is justified.

It has got a slightly higher ISP in pure LF mode, but, compared to the stock NTR it's still lower.

Here's the .CFG, I very very much welcome any critique.

PART
{

name = Castor_Engine_A
module = Part
author = Tantares

mesh = model.mu
scale = 1
rescaleFactor = 1.0

node_stack_bottom = 0.0, -0.576763, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 1
node_stack_top = 0.0, 0.576763, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 1

TechRequired = ionPropulsion
entryCost = 18000
cost = 6500

category = Propulsion
subcategory = 0
title = Castor LARJ Thruster
manufacturer = Ionic Symphonic Protonic Electronics
description = With the LARJ (Liquid Oxygen Augmented ResistoJet), thrust is created through the thermal expansion of a propellant. In this case, the heat is supplied by passing large amounts of electricity through a resistor. The addition of Oxidizer into the fuel flow allows for a much greater thrust, at the cost of efficiency.

attachRules = 1,0,1,1,0

EFFECTS
{
effectNormal
{
MODEL_MULTI_PARTICLE
{
name = resistoJetFX
modelName = Tantares/FX/FX_ResistoJet
transformName = thrustTransform
emission = 0.0 0.0
emission = 0.05 0.0
emission = 0.075 0.25
emission = 1.0 1.25
speed = 0.0 0.5
speed = 1.0 1.2
}
AUDIO
{
channel = Ship
clip = sound_jet_deep
volume = 0.0 0.0
volume = 1.0 1.0
pitch = 0.0 0.2
pitch = 1.0 1.0
loop = true
}
}
effectAugmented
{
MODEL_MULTI_PARTICLE
{
name = resistoJetAugmentedFX
modelName = Tantares/FX/FX_ResistoJetAugmented
transformName = thrustTransform
emission = 0.0 0.0
emission = 0.05 0.0
emission = 0.075 0.25
emission = 1.0 1.25
speed = 0.0 0.5
speed = 1.0 1.2
}
AUDIO
{
channel = Ship
clip = sound_jet_low
volume = 0.0 0.0
volume = 1.0 1.0
pitch = 0.0 0.2
pitch = 1.0 1.0
loop = true
}
}
engage
{
AUDIO
{
channel = Ship
clip = sound_vent_medium
volume = 1.0
pitch = 1.0
loop = false
}
}
disengage
{
AUDIO
{
channel = Ship
clip = sound_vent_medium
volume = 1.0
pitch = 1.0
loop = false
}
}
flameout
{
AUDIO
{
channel = Ship
clip = sound_vent_large
volume = 1.0
pitch = 1.0
loop = false
}
}
}

mass = 0.3

dragModelType = default
maximum_drag = 0.20
minimum_drag = 0.15
angularDrag = 2
crashTolerance = 10
maxTemp = 3400

stagingIcon = LIQUID_ENGINE

MODULE
{
name = MultiModeEngine
primaryEngineID = NormalMode
secondaryEngineID = AugmentedMode
}

MODULE
{
name = ModuleEnginesFX
engineID = NormalMode
runningEffectName = effectNormal

thrustVectorTransformName = thrustTransform
exhaustDamage = True
ignitionThreshold = 0.1
minThrust = 0
maxThrust = 9
heatProduction = 200
fxOffset = 0, 0, 0.0
PROPELLANT
{
name = ElectricCharge
ratio = 3.8
}
PROPELLANT
{
name = LiquidFuel
ratio = 0.05
DrawGauge = True
}
atmosphereCurve
{
key = 0 795
key = 1 225
}

}

MODULE
{
name = ModuleEnginesFX
engineID = AugmentedMode
runningEffectName = effectAugmented

thrustVectorTransformName = thrustTransform
exhaustDamage = True
ignitionThreshold = 0.1
minThrust = 0
maxThrust = 18
heatProduction = 200
fxOffset = 0, 0, 0.0
PROPELLANT
{
name = ElectricCharge
ratio = 3.8
}
PROPELLANT
{
name = LiquidFuel
ratio = 0.09
}
PROPELLANT
{
name = Oxidizer
ratio = 0.11
DrawGauge = True
}
atmosphereCurve
{
key = 0 615
key = 1 195
}

}

MODULE
{
name = ModuleJettison
jettisonName = Castor_Engine_A_Fairing
bottomNodeName = bottom
isFairing = True
jettisonedObjectMass = 0.1
jettisonForce = 5
jettisonDirection = 0 0 1

}

}

Edited by Beale
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well if you wanted to balance this against porkjet's lantern its got both better twr(not counting panel and battery mass) and isp(the lantern is balanced to be worse than the lv-n in pure fuel mode as a penalty for being versatile). so just against stock it doesn't seem to be stepping on toes but against one of the engines that inspired it its kinda the superior choice (though on the flip side the penalty of needing an external power source could be considered compensation but this is just an opinion with no math to back it up)

also I've heard that blue(oxygen augmented mode) and purple(pure hydrogen mode) are the scientifically accurate colors for this but I could be wrong

The reason the RLA thermoelectrics are in ion propulsion is to make sure you get both the needed electricity and monoprop tanks first, but since this runs off LFO you may be able to get away with placing this more primitive type of engine elsewhere or earlier in the tree if you so choose.

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well if you wanted to balance this against porkjet's lantern its got both better twr(not counting panel and battery mass) and isp(the lantern is balanced to be worse than the lv-n in pure fuel mode as a penalty for being versatile). so just against stock it doesn't seem to be stepping on toes but against one of the engines that inspired it its kinda the superior choice (though on the flip side the penalty of needing an external power source could be considered compensation but this is just an opinion with no math to back it up)

also I've heard that blue(oxygen augmented mode) and purple(pure hydrogen mode) are the scientifically accurate colors for this but I could be wrong

The reason the RLA thermoelectrics are in ion propulsion is to make sure you get both the needed electricity and monoprop tanks first, but since this runs off LFO you may be able to get away with placing this more primitive type of engine elsewhere or earlier in the tree if you so choose.

Blue/Purple, I like that! :)

As for tech tree: I do struggle a little to think where to place it, but that I will play with.

Back on N-1

Block G engine.

Very simple design, but actually I am quite fond of it, for sure.

03a50d359f.jpg

f2ef25d58b.jpg

fc5316486e.jpg

d4dbb6e3f9.jpg

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the block G looks spiffy, but if its gonna be an open skeletal thrust plate shouldn't there be some colliderless fuel pipes or some thing extending into the bottom of the tank? or is the fuel fed by superior soviet super science!?
I... I think it does need some more detail... for now it looks somewhat... jury-rigged?

Hehe, yes this is becoming more apparent, the more I look at it...

Quite easily I could add a few pipes like:

09aa2996c4.jpg

But the pipework is really not my specialty, if an expert could suggest what more simple additions would be good, many appreciated. :)

Edited by Beale
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Hehe, yes this is becoming more apparent, the more I look at it...

Quite easily I could add a few pipes like:

http://puu.sh/g6x0T/09aa2996c4.jpg

But the pipework is really not my specialty, if an expert could suggest what more simple additions would be good, many appreciated. :)

I'm no expert but wouldn't the simplest solution just be to have the fuel pipes come right out of the back? as for adding detail those arms look like they will bend and fold when thrust is applied perhaps if you beefed them up and added more support structure?

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I'm no expert but wouldn't the simplest solution just be to have the fuel pipes come right out of the back? as for adding detail those arms look like they will bend and fold when thrust is applied perhaps if you beefed them up and added more support structure?

Like this?

8e5f1b8da7.jpg

As for more detail, not many pictures I can find of the NK-19 (?)

Only the NK-33

131257921b.jpg

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not exactly that looks like you'd kill the gimbal if it has one. what I mean is make the support arm less flat looking and don't let the engine push against them at a perpendicular 90degree angle instead make it look a little more braced against the connector ring

I'm not quite getting you, sadly :(

But, the engine is not gimballed, so there's no restriction there.

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How about sticking some RCS onto it? From little support structures. And make it a tad bigger too. (Same height, but wider... Or is that against the mighty deLaval nozzle? hmm)

Could do the RCS, that's actually a pretty nice idea.

I'm just making the config for it, so will test in game in a moment.

The width: It's produced from Block G orthographic, so the current width is the real deal! :)

Even if it looks wrong.

Some things:

Comparison with a few other 2.5m engines.

ea922f527f.jpg

0513732841.jpg

1a41bb1b99.jpg

Edited by Beale
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those last two shots show the need for piping even if its just coming straight from the back.

I'm not so sure, I don't like the idea of some collider-less pipes kind of sticking out of the engine, I maybe can run pipes along the side of the holding arms. They will connect into the "ring".

Or, I can go back to the drawing board and re-design a non-naked engine, much more like the current Proton designs.

A few more tweaks: The N-1 parts now have emissives, and looks much better during ascent. Also, larger FX for the other stages.

8344b296d0.jpg

The Castor has a purple/blue FX, looks really pretty.

a3b9cd2969.jpg

Edited by Beale
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Tantares LV-6

Barring any small cosmetic changes coming to the Block G engine, it's release time!

Despite the excellent beta feedback, there of course may still be bugs, so let me know!

Enjoy!

New Soyuz Paint Scheme

2baf537436.jpg

Grid fins will come around shortly.

do you want to work on fairing like Kw rocketry for all of your crafts or just use procedural fairings ?

For now: Procedural.

After stock fairings: Maybe some fairings need making. :)

Edited by Beale
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