Oscar's to orbit

[aman608]

Simple challenge here get to as high of stable orbit (Pe and Ae within 5Km) as you can using only the smallest class of items to build a rocket

Ex: Rockomax 48-7S, Oscar-B, and ROUND8

Rules:

1. No Mechjeb ( even for Delta-V calculations)

2. No using the Ion Engines (I find that they ruin the challenge)

3. All stock no mods

4. Chairs on the outside of the ship are not allowed (I think its cruel to the kerbals)

5. Pods (not including hitchhiker) are an exception to the size limit

6. Parachutes are also an exception to the size rule

scoring:

1. Orbital height

a) 70km - 80km = 10 points

80km - 90km = 20 points

c) 90km - 100km = 30 points

d) and so on capped at 200 points 250km - 260km

2. Manned or unmanned

a) Unmanned = 5 points

Manned = 10 multiplied by x (x= number of kerbals) capped at 200 (20 kerbals)

3. Returned to surface unharmed

a) try returning it back for an extra 20 points

4. Super bonus

a) if you can reach Kerbin escape velocity using only the small stuff and no ion add 100 points

Max score is 520 points (return form escape velocity is possible)

Just in case you don't think its possible here is a proof of concept

http://imgur.com/a/bOx9G

anyway if i were to score myself i would have 15 points XD lowest score possible i was a bit lazy and didn't want to try to go higher

anyway have fun and see what you can do

Leaderboard:

1: Pecan (340)

2: Epthelyn (325)

3: MrOnak (225)

4:

5:

Edited June 10, 2014 by aman608
added idea

[TJPrime]

I think its cruel to the kerbals

Danny2462. Youtube. Go now.

[Epthelyn]

Challenge Complete!

Unmanned: +5pts

250-260km Orbit: +200pts (258,869 x 258,912 - difference of 43m )

Escape velocity: +100pts

Return: +20pts (disregard if you disallow the parachute, although it is the same size as the other parts).

Total: 325 (or 305)

Proof:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Edited June 8, 2014 by Epthelyn
Adhering to challenge rules :P

[aman608]

Challenge Complete!

Unmanned: +5pts

250-260km Orbit: +200pts (258,869 x 258,912 - difference of 43m )

Escape velocity: +100pts

Return: +20pts (disregard if you disallow the parachute, although it is the same size as the other parts).

Total: 325 (or 305)

Proof:

http://imgur.com/a/BPeAt

Good job! i should have mentioned the parachute ill change that

325 points quite impressive

quick question did you use Kerbal alarm clock or was it just there doing nothing

Edited June 8, 2014 by aman608

[Epthelyn]

It was just there doing nothing; it's been there for so many hours of playtime that I barely notice it any more (and so I forgot to close it before taking half the screenshots so figured I might as well just leave it).

[MrOnak]

Interesting, will attempt this after some food. What are the parts exactly that you consider legit? Oscar B tank was mentioned, as was the Rockomax48 engine, the OCTO struct.

How about the Cubic Octagonal Strut, TR-2V decoupler, 'chutes? ...

Thanks for clarifying

[problemecium]

Reserving this post for my submission, which will be composed of 14 ROUND-8s, an OKTO2, a 24-77, and a small chute. This should work, because I've gone to orbit with a similar setup subbing in 3 FL-T100s.

[aman608]

It was just there doing nothing; it's been there for so many hours of playtime that I barely notice it any more (and so I forgot to close it before taking half the screenshots so figured I might as well just leave it).

Ok thanks for clarification

Interesting, will attempt this after some food. What are the parts exactly that you consider legit? Oscar B tank was mentioned, as was the Rockomax48 engine, the OCTO struct.

How about the Cubic Octagonal Strut, TR-2V decoupler, 'chutes? ...

Thanks for clarifying

well pretty much the only parts that need to be small is the propulsion system the rest can be as large as you want have fun

[Pecan]

I think this is the first challenge I've submitted an entry for, despite speculating about many.

It's not technically hard, of course, because the 48-7S is such a great engine. My computer, on the other hand, isn't great and even with this it started to stuggle :-( I'd do a tour, but I think the thing will melt, so I'll leave it at this simple orbit-and-return.

ETA: Oh, I only think it's worth 40 points btw, but it was interesting messing around with Oscars.

Edited June 9, 2014 by Pecan

[aman608]

I think this is the first challenge I've submitted an entry for, despite speculating about many.

http://i.imgur.com/qDqhhBXl.png

http://i.imgur.com/oaZ89ugl.png

It's not technically hard, of course, because the 48-7S is such a great engine. My computer, on the other hand, isn't great and even with this it started to stuggle :-( I'd do a tour, but I think the thing will melt, so I'll leave it at this simple orbit-and-return.

ETA: Oh, I only think it's worth 40 points btw, but it was interesting messing around with Oscars.

nice your the first submission to put a Kerbal up there

it is interesting to see what you can do with all the small stuff so i do agree in that sense

[MrOnak]

Ok I'm not too sure how the point system handles my attempt but I think I can claim 225 points for an unmanned 254x252km orbit plus return, plus X.

X is:

- deploying two geostationary satellites

- lander on Minmus

- lander on Mun

One launch, 554 parts, 26.64 tons, no part clipping. Craft file here.

Video:

Sorry, I was bored

[cantab]

Nice challenge. The Oscar-B's and Round-8's poor tankage will certainly make it harder to squeeze out the delta-V.

I also wonder how RCS-powered ships might compete with LFO ones. The tankage and Isp are both worse for RCS (Isp being much worse in atmosphere), but the RCS thrusters are massless in .23.5

[MrOnak]

oh god, RCS thrusters are massless as well? Bah... *makes mental note*. This is getting ridiculous.

[Epthelyn]

oh god, RCS thrusters are massless as well? Bah... *makes mental note*. This is getting ridiculous.

It is however worth noting that RCS propellant will bring down the dV of any craft of this size quite significantly; it's like adding another small fuel tank but with less efficient fuel, which is fairly pointless.

[MrOnak]

True, but after I put a satellite in geostationary orbit from LKO with half a RCS tank I just did the math:

- One Oscar-B tank and the Rockomax 48-7s gives you ~1512 m/s delta-V for 0.178 tons of mass. That's in vacuum.

- One FL-R10 RCS fuel tank and four RV-105 thrusters give you 4105 m/s delta-V for 0.25 tons of mass.

So... once you're in LKO with something very light I'd argue that RCS gets you further than the Rockomax 48.

Disclaimer: Doing delta-V calculations with only one cup of coffee in my system isn't my forte. Here's my napkin:

Oscar-B Fuel Tank 	
	mass	0.078675 (wet)	0.015  (dry)
Rockomax 48-7S
	mass	0.1 
	thrust	30
	Isp	350
----------------------------
wet weight	0.178675
dry weight	0.115
dV		ln(0.178675/0.115)*350*9.81	= 1512.9250270144


FL-R10 RCS Fuel Tank
	mass	0.25 (wet) 0.05 (dry)
RV-105 RCS Thruster Block
	mass	0	
	thrust	4*1
	ISP	260
----------------------------
wet weight	0.25
dry weight	0.05
dV		ln(0.25/0.05)*260*9.81	= 4105.0323394544

Edited June 9, 2014 by MrOnak

[Epthelyn]

Alright, now I see the problem.

Will have to see for sure if that's true (i.e. actually gain 4105dV ingame), but that's pretty insane

[MrOnak]

The problem is mass. Four of the RCS thrusters give you 4kN of thrust. You're not going anywhere with that if you add much to the RCS "engine".

But a small satellite around Kerbin/Mun/Minmus or even a Minmus Lander Probe is totally possible with RCS only.

[aman608]

Ok I'm not too sure how the point system handles my attempt but I think I can claim 225 points for an unmanned 254x252km orbit plus return, plus X.

X is:

- deploying two geostationary satellites

- lander on Minmus

- lander on Mun

One launch, 554 parts, 26.64 tons, no part clipping. Craft file here.

Video:

Sorry, I was bored

wow that was cool only 225 points but wow you took that a lot farther than expected

[MrOnak]

Alright, now I see the problem.

Will have to see for sure if that's true (i.e. actually gain 4105dV ingame), but that's pretty insane

I had a bit of time and came up with a more realistic comparison:

Both probes have roughly the same starting weight.

Yet, the RCS probe has ~25% more delta-V but with drastically reduced TWR. Nonetheless when all you need is changing orbits, 1kN thrust is enough on such a lightweight.

On Minmus the fully fuelled Rockomax 48 powered probe has an insane TWR of 173 (fixed, thanks cantab!), the RCS one still has a TWR of 5.9 which is more than enough.

Its amazing what you can get away with when you built ultralight.

Edited June 9, 2014 by MrOnak

[cantab]

Doesn't the little Rockomax engine have 30 kN of thrust?

I also wonder if the Ant engine wouldn't get more delta-V than the Rockomax. It's the same deal as with the RCS, lower engine mass making up for lower Isp.

Of course, the key with the RCS is that you've put 1 thruster on there, but you could put 7, maybe even more, with no penalty except for part count. Modify your design to have 3 of the RCS tanks, and put enough thrusters, and you should have a one-way Tylo lander.

[MrOnak]

Oops yes you're right, its 30kN for the Rockomax, sorry for that. That won't change the delta-V calculations however, but it puts the TWR of the Rockomax on Minmus to 173 instead of 298.

Thanks for pointing that out.

I put one thruster because one is enough for Minmus but yes you can put more and get off Mun easily. Not sure fuel would be enough for Tylo but well, small tweaks.

I see two key factors why RCS might be considered "better" here: The RCS Thrusters are lightweight compared to the Rockomax. Also, the RCS lander simply has a better rate of fuel to total weight: The empty LFO craftis 80kg heavier than the empry RCS craft. Those 80kg are pure delta-V .

[Pecan]

*Sigh* I am procrastinating instead of getting on with the things I should.

Two Kerbals, 260km orbit, then Kerbin escape, re-orbit and splashdown. 340 points?

I dread that I might want to make a 20-Kerbal bus next.

Edited June 9, 2014 by Pecan

[MrOnak]

Danny2462. Youtube. Go now.

OH MY GOD I thank you SO much for that bwaaaahahaha

[FleshJeb]

Nice challenge. The Oscar-B's and Round-8's poor tankage will certainly make it harder to squeeze out the delta-V.

I also wonder how RCS-powered ships might compete with LFO ones. The tankage and Isp are both worse for RCS (Isp being much worse in atmosphere), but the RCS thrusters are massless in .23.5

FYI: You can edit your MechJeb readouts to show RCS delta-V. I'm not sure if it accounts for massless parts or not. (You could always edit the part files to 0.)

[aman608]

*Sigh* I am procrastinating instead of getting on with the things I should.

Two Kerbals, 260km orbit, then Kerbin escape, re-orbit and splashdown. 340 points?

http://i.imgur.com/nw9KZDHl.png

I dread that I might want to make a 20-Kerbal bus next.

i know the feeling XD

very good job 340 points your in first