Symmetry options?

[AlamoVampire]

okay.... Mods: Please feel free to move this question elsewhere if this is the wrong spot.

I was screwing around playing with a hidden symmetry mode thanks to this thread here and made a 5X symmetry satellite that I parked in orbit at Eve, because why not? And I had a question pop into my head. I asked it in a diff thread, but decided a full thread is warranted.

Okay, here it is: We all know about the traditional symmetries this game offers, 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 and 8 times symmetry. My question is this: IF you can glitch the game into 5X and <someone else did 7X> why are these not STANDARD symmetry modes? I mean, they are stable and will fly, which, to my limited knowledge of coding tells me, its in the game somewhere, why not make this spectacular stuff default options?

Devs?

[Kasuha]

I think it is because they don't work well with angle snap feature.

Editor has 15 degree angle snap (don't confuse with 5 degree rotation step) and that means you have 24 steps into full circle. That number is divisible by 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, but not by 5 and 7.

If you build something in 6-fold symmetry, you can attach a single piece on any of the symmetric parts and still have it "straight".

If you use 5-fold symmetry, it won't allow you to put the additional piece straight on any but the one initial part.

So IMO the idea was that provided symmetry modes were enough and comfortable to use.

I am not really missing x5 or x7 symmetries, what I'd like to see is subsymmetries (build something at x6, then place something on it in x2 or x3 - or even break it up into two x3 or three x2 groups) and maybe more symmetry modes such as mirror symmetry in VAB, and x4 mirror and x8 mirror symmetries in both VAB and SPH.

[thescientist]

I think the game has some problems to simulate exactly the position of x7 simmetries and such.

Anyway, I think the goal of the mod is exacly filling that gap to give you a better playing experience.

[UbioZur]

I don't know why it is not in game but kasuha reasons seem to be good for me.

As an alternative you could use Editor Extensions mod to add more freedom in your creation.

Also as well explained in the last harvester article, they have just implemented the bare minimum to test features and will in few updates start adding meat to those feature.

[Red Iron Crown]

The Editor Extensions mod UbioZur mentions is a symmetry lover's dream. 1x-50x symmetry modes, plus more angle snap options, is delightful. Can't recommend it enough.

[Claw]

5x symmetry does look nice, but the angle snap does make it a nightmare to line other stuff up.

I think I agree that I would prefer more complex symmetry options.

For example, having only two objects of a 3-way symmetry. That leaves that third spot open for me to attach something different. So I suppose what would work out better for this is if you could remove just one of the symmetrically placed items and the rest remain

The SPH symmetry definitely needs some work. I'm not even sure I can describe it, but some of the placement and symmetry is darn annoying. More mirror options would be nice.

But then again, how much is too complex for the basic game? You don't want to scare people off, but also want to make enough options for advanced users...

[Kasuha]

Then there are things that are clear errors IMO. For instance if you place a girder radially on something, you can place another girder right beside it with no problems.

Then if you place a Stayputnik on top of that first girder, the surface right beside that first girder becomes bumpy all of a sudden. IMO the surface normal vector is overriden by that second object you added on top of that girder because the style how it gets bumpy corresponds to shape of that object.

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Edited June 11, 2014 by Kasuha

[Claw]

Yes, what Kasuha just showed. I was going to try and describe it but it was too difficult without pictures. That craziness happens all the time in the SPH. Very annoying.

[AlamoVampire]

I think all of yall are making good points, but, I would LOVE for a Dev to chime in on this as well.

Just some food for thought:

to increase the number of symmetry options in STOCK w/out the use of a mod, would, I think only require 2 things: adding in more degrees/steps to each circle AND adding in the number of symmetry options to sync up with the new steps.

BUT, honestly, please, Id love a Dev to step in here and bandy out their thoughts. :)