Madrias Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I'm having fun. Had an idea based off of several mishaps I've had on the Mun and Eve, then started building a project to counter several still-surviving rovers that can't continue their missions.I'm up to the MK5 Anti-Turtle Rover. Tracks above, tracks below, tracks to my sides so I can always go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lo-fi Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 Actually, it was the lack of a project file. I managed to throw one together though, and I have it loading okay in the game, but have yet to test it due to some kSP memory overloads I'm dealing with.oh, by the way, I was looking at my log lately and it seems there's a complaint from a few of the parts that a module by the name of "ModuleMirror" does not exist. I had a look at the code and it's been renamed to "KFModuleMirror" but a few of the parts were not updated to use that new module name. I don't know if the same problem exists in the latest release, since I work off of github instead, but it's something to look at.Yeah, it was in a separate plugin, but I decided to bring a variant into the KF plugin. Find and replace ought to sort out issues in saves.I'm having fun. Had an idea based off of several mishaps I've had on the Mun and Eve, then started building a project to counter several still-surviving rovers that can't continue their missions.I'm up to the MK5 Anti-Turtle Rover. Tracks above, tracks below, tracks to my sides so I can always go.You do realise that rhymes? I feel a screen shot and a meme coming on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madrias Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I'll do the screenshot when I get the bloody thing to stop getting stuck in random angles. More Tracks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharpspoonful Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I would be stoked for that. It would make tractor-trailer setups much simpler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lo-fi Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 I'll do the screenshot when I get the bloody thing to stop getting stuck in random angles. More Tracks!Need some bigger surface mount tracks?I would be stoked for that. It would make tractor-trailer setups much simpler.It's something we really need. You can bodge with KAS, but its not as simple as I would like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanguine-Fiend Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Yes, no problem there, but there's nothing more fancy tech tree wise than requiring advanced motors like the larger stock wheels. Costs are likely all over the place - it's something I tend to overlook as I never play career, but will get sorted out eventually. You may wish to config edit in the meantime.Oh, there is one known career mode bug that just appeared in .90: KSP detects the tracks as way larger than they actually are, which can cause problems before assembly buildings are upgraded and still size constrained. Its a game bug I can do nothing about, I'm afraid. All other parts will be fine, though.I'll add that to the OP, it will confuse a few people otherwise, no doubt!Cheers Pal, Much Appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lo-fi Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 NP Madrias, look what I found: http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/wait-the-b-36-peacemaker-flew-with-tank-tracks-for-lan-1638780957 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtedastro Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 oh man, we NEED some of those......great find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madrias Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Lo-Fi, I could totally use a set of those.As for bigger surface mount tracks, I have TweakScale, and I use it religiously. No, the problem is that I keep finding angles at which I can get stuck and thereby end up "turtled" despite my best efforts. I'd be fine on the Mun, but I hate rolling on Eve. You never get your rovers back on their wheels there if you tip 'em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakase Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Hey, does anyone have an old release of this mod or something? I need to unbreak one of my old crafts and update it somehow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robotengineer Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Is the RPM limit configureable? It feels like a speed limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lo-fi Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 Hey, does anyone have an old release of this mod or something? I need to unbreak one of my old crafts and update it somehow...You can still download the older versions on KerbalStuffIs the RPM limit configureable? It feels like a speed limit. Yep, it's in the config. More to do with matters related to the sound, but it serves a useful purpose not letting things run away while not grounded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lo-fi Posted January 28, 2015 Author Share Posted January 28, 2015 I'm just going to put this here Yeah, you'll have to ignore the debug lines and the fact that there's no visible link, but the important thing is that this works and the dynamics are perfect. I used short, light demo rovers to demonstrate how the forces act on the towing vehicle under acceleration and braking. Very tricky getting the configurable joint to do its thing, but well worth it. Onwards! I now have a far better understanding of how joints are configured in KSP, as well as how to configure them myself. Hope you're all having fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eldiabs Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I'm just going to put this here http://youtu.be/9mbIfe2aWWAYeah, you'll have to ignore the debug lines and the fact that there's no visible link, but the important thing is that this works and the dynamics are perfect. I used short, light demo rovers to demonstrate how the forces act on the towing vehicle under acceleration and braking. Very tricky getting the configurable joint to do its thing, but well worth it. Onwards! I now have a far better understanding of how joints are configured in KSP, as well as how to configure them myself. Hope you're all having fun!Awesome! Have very much been enjoying this mod. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZodiusInfuser Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Btw, if anyone with dev repo access wants to play about with these, here's a Craft File I've created. You'll need Infernal Robotics and the Model Rework for it to work though (but not tweakscale), since these are temporarily acting as the drive and control....I know this is unrelated to the current trailer hitch discussion (which looks awesome btw!), but I had time today to do a video of this mecanum wheeled craft in action that you all may enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerbas_ad_astra Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Looking slick! Will they respond to RCS translation controls? That would be very handy for lining up a vehicle for a hitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lo-fi Posted January 28, 2015 Author Share Posted January 28, 2015 You're very welcome, eldiabs I can't quite believe how well that works, Zodius! I've been code diving KAS and IR quite heavily (part of the reason the trailer hitch got a bit of time put in) and hope to have some grabby animation goodness going fairly soon. Now wondering, with my new level of knowledge of joints, whether a lightweight IR type plugin with very different controls might not be the way forward for those wheels... Interesting stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZodiusInfuser Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I can't quite believe how well that works, Zodius! I've been code diving KAS and IR quite heavily (part of the reason the trailer hitch got a bit of time put in) and hope to have some grabby animation goodness going fairly soon. Now wondering, with my new level of knowledge of joints, whether a lightweight IR type plugin with very different controls might not be the way forward for those wheels... Interesting stuff.Indeed it does work well . I'd have to agree with your idea of not going down a lightweight IR solution, as ultimately these wheels are unstable and have a very low top speed. I think the other approximation (although not as accurate) would handle better, and allow the wheels to share much of your existing codebase.Looking slick! Will they respond to RCS translation controls? That would be very handy for lining up a vehicle for a hitch.Not specifically, although the way I've configured the Infernal Robotics joints emulates it using the UIOJKL keys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisl Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Is there anything I can do to counteract the massive "lean-forward"/"lean-back" that happens when accelerating and decelerating with tracks? I know a couple of my setups have been too tall for the tracks I used so a little shifting was to be expected but I noticed even in lo-fi's very cool video about the trailer hook thing that his little rover did the same thing and it's CoM couldn't have been significantly higher then the tracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenobi McCormick Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) Is there anything I can do to counteract the massive "lean-forward"/"lean-back" that happens when accelerating and decelerating with tracks? I know a couple of my setups have been too tall for the tracks I used so a little shifting was to be expected but I noticed even in lo-fi's very cool video about the trailer hook thing that his little rover did the same thing and it's CoM couldn't have been significantly higher then the tracks.That's how tracks work. The spring on any one road wheel is very weak because the weight of the vehicle is shared across many road wheels. This means that the natural weight transfer is more pronounced. For example, let's look at a T-34. It has ten road wheels, ten springs, and weighs 35 tons.We take the number of springs(10) and divide the weight of the vehicle(35) by that. We come up with how much weight each road wheel needs to support. For the T-34 it's 3.5 tons for each road wheel. A four wheeled vehicle of the same weight needs to support 8.75 tons per wheel, which means it will have stiffer springs and thus less visible pitching on braking. Edited January 28, 2015 by Kenobi McCormick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisl Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 That's how tracks work. The spring on any one road wheel is very weak because the weight of the vehicle is shared across many road wheels. This means that the natural weight transfer is more pronounced. For example, let's look at a T-34. It has ten road wheels, ten springs, and weighs 35 tons.We take the number of springs(10) and divide the weight of the vehicle(35) by that. We come up with how much weight each road wheel needs to support. For the T-34 it's 3.5 tons for each road wheel. A four wheeled vehicle of the same weight needs to support 8.75 tons per wheel, which means it will have stiffer springs and thus less visible pitching on braking.Right, but you don't see a T-34 flipping itself over because it starts or stops moving. I know alot of that has to do with the fact that the CoM is low on the tracks and what I'm building is not, but even in lo-fi's video we see some pretty extreme tipping when he starts and stops (especially after the trailer is hooked up). I figure that while I can't remove the possibility of tipping, I should be able to adjust the settings on the tracks to limit it to some degree. I've got a base on Duna that will knock itself over simply by accelerating from 0.0-0.2m/s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenobi McCormick Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) Right, but you don't see a T-34 flipping itself over because it starts or stops moving.Actually, you do. Watch some footage of those things moving around. They buck around like roller coasters. Anything but the most gentle of movements has them pitching, hell just natural undulations of the terrain at a constant speed will see it nosing up and down.lo-fi's demo video may have been a bit extreme, but it fits well enough, and he'll tune it more as he works on it. Edited January 28, 2015 by Kenobi McCormick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerbas_ad_astra Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 There may be power-to-weight issues at work as well. Even if the CM is low, if the vehicle's too lightweight for its engine, the torque caused by a sudden acceleration can cause the vehicle to pop a wheelie (no matter what kind of suspension it has). This would be exacerbated on lower-gravity bodies like Duna. Maybe switching the control mode to fine (capslock) or reducing the "thrust limiter" (if the tracks have such a thing) would help your base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robotengineer Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Those hitches look great, KAS just doesn't work for hitches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madrias Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Reduce the Torque on the tracks helps with the whole flipping-over problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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