[1.0.x] [V1.9f] Kerbal Foundries wheels, anti-grav repulsors and tracks

[Gaalidas]

Commence kerbalized rain-dance!

[mrstoned]

I can't stress enough how much awesomeness this is.

I just wish you could adjust the settings similar to the Robotics in the latest releases. You can set angels and speed on each individual part.

Perhaps have a look for code in that package? No need to reinvent the wheel, atleast too many times (Pun intended)

Oh and they appear to work in 0.24.2 64bit without any troubles.

/Rikard

[Madrias]

I'm excited for the tank tracks, too. Got a few designs in mind that might use 'em. I'm thinking Bill wants a half-track hot-rod.

[lo-fi]

I just wish you could adjust the settings similar to the Robotics in the latest releases. You can set angels and speed on each individual part.

/Rikard

Not sure I get what you mean?

Good to know it's all still working even though I've not got round to updating to .24

[lo-fi]

Alpha 1.2 just went live. Please remember they are experimental, textures are temporary and please be prepared to give detailed bug reports if you're going to download at this stage! See OP for KerbalStuff download link.

[mrstoned]

Not sure I get what you mean?

Good to know it's all still working even though I've not got round to updating to .24

The ability to adjust the spring strength and dampening via right-click menu after "launch".

You might need to fine-tune after loading or filling a tank or similar.

Also, what does the Spring strentgh and Dampening do/control?

I cant see that much difference when experiementing with them. Might be using a too much heavy rover tho.

Also, when using the rockomax sized tanks, it helps to put the large wheels on a 5degree down angle to allow for some more ground clearence.

/Rikard

[lo-fi]

Ah, got ya. That bugs me too. Without getting too technical, there are reasons you can't update the settings in-flight (Unity limitations). I keep hacking at it, but I haven't come up with anything satisfactory yet, which is why there are no in-flight controls. See previous discussion in the thread for more info.

I forget most people aren't necessarily clued up on how suspension works - I guess I ought to do a tutorial. The spring rate is how strong the spring is. Too weak and it will bottom out, too strong and you won't get any compression. Damping is how resistant the suspension is to movement. Too little and it will bounce about like the thing is on jelly, too much and it doesn't react very quickly.

I'd suggest if you're struggling for ground clearance with the rocko tanks you've probably got the spring setting way too low and it's bottoming out!

[Madrias]

I'm enjoying the tank tracks! Made a micro tank with them, some Firespitter parts, the Bahamuto Armory Vulcan Guns, and a config modded RTG (10x the power generation, but I added in Decay Heat, which goes down over time. Lose all the heat and the RTG is merely a lump of weight.) Quite a bit of fun. I like how they instantly respond to rover controls, one of the things I did dislike in the original RBI tracks. They'd respond quickly, but acceleration left something to be desired. These, not a problem, they accelerate like rover wheels.

Had no problem with traveling 7 KM to my target site, then destroying a simple block of structural panels. I'm impressed. A good amount of power draw, more than a rover wheel under starting draw, but correct me if I'm wrong, but once you reach peak RPM, I think the power draw was fading down. The old RBI tracks did that, too, and was something I wished could be applied to rover wheels. It takes much less to maintain RPM than it does to reach it. It's very impressive. Grip was superb, climbing a bit of a rough hill from a dead stop, though I had to keep stopping to let my 400 unit battery recharge (which wasn't ever really a problem) and it'd just pick up and go again, chewing battery until I'd coast to a stop, apply brakes, and do it again.

Turning rate, also pretty good. No problems with being able to turn. In fact, I'm glad they're actually a little bit twitchy. The old RBI tracks had the opposite quirk, they tended to refuse to turn while traveling at any reasonable rate of speed. These, not a problem making a rapid 90-degree turn at 15 m/s. Made aiming a pain on approach (My brain has enough trouble going in one direction, now let's try swiveling a cannon to point at something and keep the tank chassis going straight...) but I liked the fact that they would actually respond like that.

Didn't run into the usual "stock rover code suspension bug" where the wheels oscillate at a high rate of speed, preventing braking, steering, or accelerating in a direction other than wherever the wheels plan to go. Think infiniglide-for-rovers, except infinitely more destructive when it happens. Also had no problem with a terrain bug at 16 m/s that snuck up on me (was in IVA view) and ran right over a terrain seam. That usually leads to wheels ripped off of rovers, instant screaming, and an explosion. These tracks... No problem. A slight bump and away we went.

Loss of steering responsiveness above 20 m/s, but that doesn't bother me. Application of the brakes brought my tiny tank down to a low enough speed to turn. In fact, I'm glad of this because it means making half tracks is easier. No having to worry about the tank tracks being the dominant steering compared to the rover wheels.

Haven't played with repulsors yet since the update, I really wanted to try those tracks. And once I clear my space center and surrounding properties from crashed debris, I'll make some lucky Kerbal a half-track hot-rod so they can go racing down the runway.

[lo-fi]

Thanks for the detailed report!

The steering authority is set up to fade as speed builds or it got a bit unstable. They are not definitive values, though. If you look in the .cfg, you'll find:

    steeringCurve
    {
      key = 0 100 0 0 
      key = 10 75 0 0
      key = 25 25 0 0
    }

The first number in each key is speed, the second is the torque applied and affects steering response. The code interpolates between values. If you'd like to play around and suggest some values, please do!

correct me if I'm wrong, but once you reach peak RPM, I think the power draw was fading down.

Absolutely. The power draw is proportional to the torque. I'll be applying to my wheels too, it's a great idea. The whole thing is an iterative process, I keep learning something new when I make new parts that I can transfer back to previous efforts. All seems so easy now!

And once I clear my space center and surrounding properties from crashed debris, I'll make some lucky Kerbal a half-track hot-rod so they can go racing down the runway.

Hehe. You should see some of the saves in my dev game! Carnage, I tell you... Carnage.

And please do post some video or screen grabs!

Edited August 2, 2014 by lo-fi

[ecat]

Many thanks for all your work, I'm having great fun messing around

May favourite craft so far is probably this:

A fairly standard Interstellar mobile power station, it can be realised with stock wheels but care is needed. With your big wheels you see 300t travel at 35m/s and it handles more like a sports car with just a little drift at high speed What a lovely steering implementation you have.

I have a tracked version which is viable if strutted to prevent splay but not as exciting. I've also spent a short while playing with the anti-grav devices, I have nothing to compare them with but everything made sense - to me at least.

All in all, very nice and so far not a single hiccup or glitch in KSP 0.24.2 32bit

[lo-fi]

That's.... beautiful! Thanks for sharing

And thanks! Really glad people are enjoying the parts. You'll notice the track units are labelled 'medium'

[hydran101]

That's.... beautiful! Thanks for sharing

And thanks! Really glad people are enjoying the parts. You'll notice the track units are labelled 'medium'

Did you update it already!

I need to check this!

Edit: TAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANKS!

ARE HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERE!

Edit2: TANKS ARE BADASS. BUT WHEN YOU MOUNT A 30MM REVOLVING CANNON (Warthog 30MM gat gun) IT IS UNSTOPABLE.

Edited August 3, 2014 by hydran101

[hydran101]

I seem to have found a problem with the tracks.

When I drive a small craft with then it seems to want to turn Left or right when I want it to go forward. Also tracks are badass.

Same goes for larger craft aswell.

Very strange....

[lo-fi]

Not something I've come across in testing... Post some screen grabs of your design?

[hydran101]

Basicly, I had the smallest form of Lack's rover thing, you know that one with the sliding glass? that one worked....more or less the same. I used his SXT plane (the smallest one) cockpit for a body, and attached treads from the bottom and it began wanting to turn left when going forward and right when going back.

(im also using this in KSP .24)

Maybe a re-install will fix? I'll see.

[Darren9]

Basicly, I had the smallest form of Lack's rover thing, you know that one with the sliding glass? that one worked....more or less the same. I used his SXT plane (the smallest one) cockpit for a body, and attached treads from the bottom and it began wanting to turn left when going forward and right when going back.

(im also using this in KSP .24)

Maybe a re-install will fix? I'll see.

I had one pulling to the left and right just now, it stopped when I disabled all reaction wheels (pod torque), have you tried that if you've got any active?

[hydran101]

I had one pulling to the left and right just now, it stopped when I disabled all reaction wheels (pod torque), have you tried that if you've got any active?

I did that and it didnt work. strange...

[lo-fi]

I've not tried Lack's rover, I have to admit. The stock tanksteer pulls to the right something horrible, which is why I wrote my plugin from the ground up - it did my head in - and was quite careful to avoid such silliness. Though re-reading your post it sounds like you're having to attach them in an odd fashion and there is an issue with how it's detecting which side the tracks are on. This is the hard part about creating stuff for KSP: You never know how it's going to be used and it's almost impossible to cover all the bases. I'm pretty sure that's what's going on and I doubt a re-install will help.

I do have an idea for an alternative side detection method, though the current one never gave me any issues so I left it be. By 'mounted to the bottom', do you mean you have to rotate the tracks a lot to make them face the right direction?

[Madrias]

Well, I built a half-track truck, but Bill didn't like the look of it and told me to put more tracks on it, less wheels.

So I built this:

Javascript is disabled. View full album

And guess who kicked out the door of his coffin and said, "Gimme the keys, I'm driving." Shoulda known Jeb was just sleeping...

Ignore the last 3 screenshots in the album, I try to keep anything driving-related together. The first 6 are the awesome truck. Uses Infernal Robotics to allow the front tracks to swivel independantly (free-moving docking washer. Literally, the only thing turning the truck are your tracks), a fission reactor buried as the core of the super-big-block V8 sitting on the nose, Procedural parts for a few key things, Firespitter for the most-abused airplane cockpits I've ever used, B9 for the windscreen, and of course, Kerbal Foundries for the tracks.

And yes, Jeb does visit his crash site, the big pile of repulsors laying every which way.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Madrias

[lo-fi]

That's brilliant

Got some updates in the works which tidy quite a few things up on the tracks and the repulsors have had a major overhaul.

[Madrias]

If you're willing to take an idea, I wouldn't mind a set of tracks like the ones I've used on that truck, but with an ability to steer like rover wheels. You know, pivoting on the attachment point. It's just an idea, and I have no idea how hard (or whether it's even possible) to implement it would be, but it'd allow me to rebuild the truck into a more stable long-distance platform.

[lo-fi]

Hmmmmm. I'll bung it on the idea pile

For the moment I'd suggest making a rack steering arrangement like I did on my kethane rig with a gantry rail, and I'll add an option in the upcoming update to disable the torque based steering on the track units. Should work a treat. Reminds me of a Thunderbirds rover they used in the episode where the road laying machine ran into trouble blasting through a mountain btw

Edited August 5, 2014 by lo-fi

[Madrias]

Only reason I don't want to use Infernal Robotics is that there's no self centering. I tried using a rotatron to turn the front steering box and while it worked wonders, it quickly became a nightmare. Constantly playing with corrective steering trying to drive straight.

Hence, my idea. Right now it's using a free-floating docking washer, so it doesn't mind which way it turns. I use the track steering to turn the whole machine, and the rear tracks are set to 75% torque so the truck is always pulling itself rather than pushing. The front brakes are also disabled so that I can quickly realign steering by applying brakes. I thought it to be a minor marvel of engineering when I built it. All the little things that made it actually work.

As for Thunderbirds, I've not seen it, so I'm a bit lost there.

[ecat]

Thunderbirds

1965 British children's TV sci-fi series made on quite a sizeable budget and featuring puppets.

Now, do not let the children's TV part put you off, you'll get used to the use of puppets too if you give the series a try. Amazing attention to detail, amazing vehicles. Youtube is your friend, or Wikipedia for much more detail. I grew up with the series so my opinion is biased but I highly recommend watching a couple of episodes - Warning: features full frontal cigarette smoking.

Also worthy of consideration is Captain Scarlet - Warning: possibly the most sinister intro sequence in the history of children's TV, may also contain traces of science - and the more modern, full CGI New Captain Scarlet - Warning: much more interesting, intriguing and exciting than it has any right to be.

[lo-fi]

You, my friend, are missing out! Thunderbirds had some of the best near-future vehicles ever to hit the screen (and this was back in the 60's)! I caught re-runs as a kid and still love it to this day.

Your rover reminded me of the vehicle in the first minute here:

There is a 'move centre' action group for IR parts. It's not one-shot: if you activate it, the parts slowly returns to centre when you release the control you've configured. Works perfectly, I often use for steering on big stuff over individual wheel steering. Love your concept, though!

Next track version has better torque control, steering authority and you can toggle the torque steering off, amongst other tweaks to animation and placement detection. Won't be long now, I'm delaying to update to .24.2 and recompile. Seems to work fine compiled against .23.5, but I've got to get round to it sometime.

Think I've almost got it nailed!