[WIP] THSS - Tri Hexagonal Structural Truss Reborn (v1.0 RC1 -7/19/14 )

[noonespecial]

THSS is a well known older mod started by Semni. Unfortunately, the mod appears to be dead as there hasn't been an update to the mod in over a year and the original creator also appears to be inactive for an equal period of time. The bad news is, the original creator did not specify a license, which defaults to "All Rights Reserved". As such, there is no way that we of the KSP community can continue Semni's work.

The good news, however, is that multiple people have taken the initiative to re-create THSS (or similiar) from scratch. Those people being myself, Biotronic (developer of TweakScale and Strip Symmetry), and Greys (developer of HexCans and Virgin Kalactic). Currently, all three of us are developing our THSS derivatives independently.

I'm starting this thread in hopes of starting a collaboration on the future re-development of this wonderful mod.

Currently, I have worked on the models for several replacements to the aging THSS, though I originally chose to move in a slightly different direction. My inspiration for my rendition is a modular construction system with the THSS at the core. As such, I scaled down my version of the THSS so that it's radius with it's radially attached modules would be the same radius as stock fuel tanks. Which is unlike the original THSS as it's trusses were of a larger radius than the stock 1.25m tanks. This is what I have completed so far.

Special Technologies Tri-Hexagonal Structural Truss (THST) [Working Name, I'll think of something more clever later]

Update v1.0 Release Candidate 1 7/19/2014

Head over the to the Release Forum and check it out.

SpeedyB has also released his version of THSS, which is more faithful to the original than mine. Beautiful work.

Speedy's Hex Truss System

Update v0.3 Beta 7/4/2014

Added a few more adapters. I'm still having difficulty with the radial modules, so they are withheld from this release again. I've also started working on animating for deployable solar panel modules.

Download

Curses

Mediafire

v0.2 Source

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License

Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 4.0 International

Update 7/1/2014 #2

v0.2 Beta Release is now available for download. I'm having some trouble with the radial config nodes for the modular fuel tanks and batteries, so I removed them from this release. I think I know the problem, but it will take some time to fix. Cheers!

Update 7/1/2014

I've slightly changed the scale for the trusses and related components, which means the upcoming v0.2 Beta Release will probably break your game if you're using the parts (It was an alpha release after all). The models have been refined with more efficient colliders (Thanks Greys!). The Trusses will still be using the baked placeholder textures for the time being. Also added the modular fuel tanks and batteries. Both will be using temporary textures until I can refine them. I have to finish tweaking the part.cfg files, then after that I'll release the v0.2 Beta. Hopefully within a day or two. Cheers!

Update 6/28/14

Alpha Pre Release Version 0.1

Added models and placeholder textures for 1.25m diameter trusses in 0.61, 1.148, 1.875, and 3.712m lengths. Added TweakScale configurations for the 0.62m Diameter and 2.50m Diameter parts. There is a lot of tweaking yet to be done on the part.cfg, but I'm still trying to figure those out.

Update 6/28/14

Concept design finished. Structures in this series will follow this basic design

I have mapped out six phases. Each phase will be followed by an pre-release.

Phase 1: 1.25m Diameter Structures.

0.61m

1.148m

1.875m

3.712m

Plus accompanying fuel and battery modules for the three larger sizes.

Phase 2: 2.5m Diameter Structures.

0.959m

1.875m

3.712m

7.315m

Plus accompanying fuel and battery modules for the three larger sizes.

Phase 3: 0.62m Diameter Structures.

0.36m

0.72m

1.44m

Phase 4: Adapters

0.62m to 1.25m

0.62m to 2.50m

1.25m to 2.50m

1.25m to 3.75m

2.50m to 3.75m

T-adapter

Tri-adapter

Quad-adapter

Hex-adapter

Phase 5: Electrical Systems

Animated Solar Panels.

Phase 6: Command Systems

0.62m Probe Core

1.25m Probe Core

1.25m Command Pod

2.50m Command Pod

Phase 7: Maybe?

3.75m Diameter Structures (is there really a need for these?)

Mod Compatibility (B9, FusTek, Interstellar, Universal Storage, others?)

Edited July 18, 2014 by noonespecial

[sharpspoonful]

Thank you for rebooting this. These were in my save folder well after it was abandoned.

I've posted this in several other thread, but please, for the love of Kod, use the FUSTEK modules as a basis of design. Please us the length when the Adapter versions are docked together, and please make some half-width sections for solar construction.

[YANFRET]

Yeah I agree the Kuniverse needs moar trusses. Good idea!

[Justin Kerbice]

Good idea, there is kind of a mismatch in your draft models: the three small cylinder/holes (3rd pic) looks like to be over detailled compared to the bottom cylinder of the last pic. Perhaps because you have stock parts in mind which could be a bit more smooth, if not, this cylinder (a tube strictly speaking) deserve almost 30-50% more polygons as it has now.

[Greys]

Congrats! Sidenote, you should change the word "derivative" to "inspired", as THSS lacks a license you cannot make derivatives of it, and I can say with certainty that I have not derived from THSS, and it does not appear you have derived from THSS, haven't seen Biotronic's work but I doubt he has either, if anything his is probably procedural.

I'd also caution you taking on THSS as your project's name, I'm not sure what the rules on that are but I'm of the opinion that if you're not directly inheriting the project you should get a different name, might just be me.

Also: Struss.

As far as FUSTEK goes, proportions for nGon based structures is very important to them being attractive, making them as long as some assemblage of other parts means making the ratio of their cross-section to length dependant on some arbitrary length instead of a clean number length, or having the length dependent on a crossection which has specific clean number lengths; basically unless Fustek happens to be one of a few certain length steps, being based on it will dirty all the numbers and make relationships with other parts less likely.

[noonespecial]

I hear what you're saying Greys, however, as far as I'm away "THSS" (Tri Hexigonal Structural Struts) is a physical description of the product. JARFR was the mod name. Semni made Jafra THSS, Jafra HOSS, and Jafra CRSS. So I don't believe there would a license conflict. Regardless, if that is the case, I haven't actually named my mod yet. I'd probably go with something silly like NOSTech.

Also, the derivatives refer to the different THSS (THST (Truss instead of Strut)) being created by You, Biotronic, and I. Semantics either way and easily changeable.

As far as sizing them to be compatible with FUSTEK, my opinion is to make the sizing as "stock" as possible and not overly favor one mod or another. If I favor FUSTEK, it wouldn't work well with KSO or KOSMOS. I think the best I could do while keeping with this paradigm is making a FUSTEK "adapter" (an odd sized part to match the stock-sized to FUSTEK). However, I haven't really measured FUSTEK... for all I know my plans are already compliant, haha.

Modeling Update:

As per suggested, I've simplified the parts somewhat, with hopes of duplicating the complexity with texture. In the pictures above, you'll notice a difference between the 1m truss and the 2m truss (2m still isn't finished). I'm also developing an additional variant to show to see which model is preferred before I throw together all the other models.

P.S. Thanks for catching my embarrassing typo... Struss. Not sure if I was thinking Truss and typing Strut and combined them or if I hit a wrong key. Haha

Edited June 26, 2014 by noonespecial

[Greys]

I hear what you're saying Greys, however, as far as I'm away "THSS" (Tri Hexigonal Structural Struss) is a phyiscal description of the product. JARFR was the mod name. Semni made Jafra THSS, Jafra HOSS, and Jafra CRSS. So I don't believe there would a license conflict. Regardless, if that is the case, I haven't actually named my mod yet. I'd probably go with something silly like NOSTech.

No arguments there, though keep in mind that you get to have a part name, which can have a series name if you like; a manufacturer name which has no functional value, and the mod's name and they don't have to be the same thing, HexCans is made by PanSpace Manufacturing Industries. Though might I suggest, Special Technologies.

Also, the derivatives refer to the different THSS (THST) being created by You, Biotronic, and I. Semantics either way and easily changeable.

Derivative has pretty specific meaning in these terms and as they pertain to us it means that if our works are derivative of Semni's work, we must have a license from Semni stating that we are allowed to do so; or our works cannot be posted on these forums. Our works are original, and inspired by Semni's, they are not derivative and that is why we can do this.

As far as sizing them to be compatible with FUSTEK, my opinion is to make the sizing as "stock" as possible and not overly favor one mod or another. If I favor FUSTEK, it wouldn't work well with KSO or KOSMOS. I think the best I could do while keeping with this paradigm is making a FUSTEK "adapter" (an odd sized part to match the stock-sized to FUSTEK). However, I haven't really measured FUSTEK... for all I know my plans are already compliant, haha.

As far as I'm aware FUSTEK is 2.5m or 3.75m, I don't use it honestly, but what he's asking for is to make your standard length piece as long as a standard FUSTEK cylinder plus the end caps. Presumibly the goal is that if you have two parallel limbs on a space station they can be composed of any assortment of FUSTEK and nGon struss and it will result in the limbs being the same length.

Modeling Update:

As per suggested, I've simplified the parts somewhat, with hopes of duplicating the complexity with texture. In the pictures above, you'll notice a difference between the 1m truss and the 2m truss (2m still isn't finished). I'm also developing an additional variant to show to see which model is preferred before I throw together all the other models.

They look very nice, and might I say the square linear beams look pretty nice on their own, I still think you can reasonably make them appear round via smoothing, though seeing it now I think it'll be pretty obvious at the ends that it isn't round, so if you want it to look round you should probably add one more face (pentagon). Also I noticed that the square beams are not parallel to either the long or short sides of the trihex, if anything it appears that opposing corners of the square are aligned to a line between the outer and inner trihex corners adjacent to the beam, is this intentional and if so what's your logic?

PS, if you're interested please join us in IRC://irc.esper.net/KSPModders

this invitation extends to anybody

[noonespecial]

Alternate base model configurations: Both are 0.5m in height. The third is a picture of the radially attached battery model that would fit either truss. The truss with three attached modules would be 1.25m.

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[Greys]

The thin trihex version looks really flimsy but I love the radial braces, maybe it'll look right when there's two end to end so the trihex is doubled, though the braces will be doubled too, hmm. Either way I'd say it looks like a good direction to go for a probe sized set, especially if you made the center post twice as big. If you don't like the radial braces being doubled you should be able to eliminate every other brace on the top, and the opposite set on the bottom, move them closer to the mating plane; and then when two lengths are mated together it would appear as if there's one set of braces. I'm pretty much indifferent about the first picture, with the parallel braces. I like it as much as I like the original version.

[BananaDealer]

Someone give this guy a banana!

Oh, wait...

*Gives Noonespecial The Golden Internet Banana Award*

[noonespecial]

Though might I suggest, Special Technologies.

I like that actually...

As far as I'm aware FUSTEK is 2.5m or 3.75m, I don't use it honestly, but what he's asking for is to make your standard length piece as long as a standard FUSTEK cylinder plus the end caps. Presumibly the goal is that if you have two parallel limbs on a space station they can be composed of any assortment of FUSTEK and nGon struss and it will result in the limbs being the same length.

I believe he means like this...

THSS is sized that it would dock perfect with a FUSTEK station, while stock trusses do not.

Also I noticed that the square beams are not parallel to either the long or short sides of the trihex, if anything it appears that opposing corners of the square are aligned to a line between the outer and inner trihex corners adjacent to the beam, is this intentional and if so what's your logic?

That's precisely correct, they were lined up with the line between the outer and inner corners. The reasoning is... no reasoning, it's a limitation of my modeling skills as I've been playing around with the software for less than a week. I've since replace both the original 24 side circular supports on the 1m and the square supports on the 2m with hexagon supports. The two meter lacks cross beams simply because it is incomplete (at the time of the model, I hadn't quite figured out how to do them, but I figured it out today). Also, additional support is (assumed) to be provided by an accompanying module. Such as an external fuel tank, battery, or solar panel array.

[noonespecial]

PS, if you're interested please join us in IRC://irc.esper.net/KSPModders

this invitation extends to anybody

Thanks for the invite, I will check it out though I keep odd hours. I'm currently working in China, so I'm usually asleep at this hour. No work tomorrow, so I stayed up late to toy with the models.

[noonespecial]

Part Study: For personal reference

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[noonespecial]

Additional Alternate configuration. (Concept models only, I have no idea if these will work as shown in KSP). Also shown with optional fuel and battery modules.

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[noonespecial]

An alternate to the above alternate. This is my favorite so far, so unless there are any objections, I think this one will be the base for my designs.

[sharpspoonful]

I like that actually...

I believe he means like this...

*Awesome Picture*

THSS is sized that it would dock perfect with a FUSTEK station, while stock trusses do not.

The problem with most trusses I've found is that while the 2.5 is the correct length, the trusses won't mate or dock when you add on the ICBM docking rings and the adapter caps. You have to shim the pieces like so:

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In the photos above, I couldn't even use the adapters or send each module up by itself to build out the core because of the stardard lengths. Ideally, I'd like the trusses to fit mid-length on the modules and dockable.

[Raptor831]

Just want to drop in and give my thumbs up on this one. Would love a fresh version of those parts, especially if it came with a docking adapter like the old THSS. Either way, good job so far!

[sumghai]

Looking quite interesting!

I too have noted that the FusTek dimensions are a bit peculiar, but that's because I'm following off fusty's original work. In the picture of my station linked above, I ultimately used a combination of shims and EVA Docking Struts.

My recommendation, however, is for you to ignore FusTek entirely and do what you feel works best for your own add-on and for the wider community - I'll figure something out myself in the future.

[Gaalidas]

I gotta say, that curved model is really pretty and I'm rather excited to see this in action. I've always wanted to build a craft using trusses as the main structural element, but I always ran into issues with lengths and such that simply refused to match up right.

[noonespecial]

Looking quite interesting!

I too have noted that the FusTek dimensions are a bit peculiar, but that's because I'm following off fusty's original work. In the picture of my station linked above, I ultimately used a combination of shims and EVA Docking Struts.

My recommendation, however, is for you to ignore FusTek entirely and do what you feel works best for your own add-on and for the wider community - I'll figure something out myself in the future.

I don't plan on ignoring FusTek. FusTek has been one of my favorite mods since I discovered KSPs modding community. In fact, it was FusTek that got me interested in doing this project. I mean... there I was, building a FusTek Antimatter mining station and I couldn't get the trusses to quite fit... then I remember THSS! But alas... it is no more.

Just want to drop in and give my thumbs up on this one. Would love a fresh version of those parts, especially if it came with a docking adapter like the old THSS. Either way, good job so far!

Unfortunately, the docking adapter was the one thing I always hated about THSS. Especially considering the FusTek or KSO docking adapters are SO nice. But, we'll see. This is my first modding project and so far this week I've taught myself Sketchup, Blender and Unity. Now I have to figure out texturing (The UV Mapping confuses the hell out of me) and configuration files.

That being said, without further adieu... here are some screenshots of the half meter truss, fuel cell, and battery in KSP. Without textures or proper config files anyway...

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[noonespecial]

Fixed the config nodes.

Now for sleep....

[Railgunner2160]

Not bad, not bad at all for your first go!!

[Greys]

this looks awesome, I really like that you've anticipated smaller modules for the short side; I'm truely glad that early on there are several clear lines of demarcation between our projects' goals and aesthetics.

UV unwrapping is really simple, it's a two step process.

First you need to select edges and mark them as seams to tell Blender where to split the faces. The goal here is to cut the mesh into pieces that can be lain flat with as little distortion of the faces as possible, while also not overlapping itself. For example, you might take one of the little pockets on your trihex, mark all the edges at the top of the pocket, mark the vertical edges, and mark around the circle in the middle. If it were a perfect trapezoid this alone would let the sides lay flat in a sort of irish cross pattern, but your curved edge will make that more complicated. There are several different ways to unwrap that particular section and I'm probably not the best advisor as far as UVs go, I have rather asinine goals when I unwrap things. The easy way would be to take every 'surface' and mark it off from the rest, this will give you a lot of rectangles and some other shapes, but it will make texturing more opaque. A good unwrap really helps the texturing to make sense later on.

Your mesh happens to be rather complicated but you'll have plenty of time to revise it, but keep one thing in mind. Semni did almost no texture work on his parts, they were unwrapped only so well to allow pipe coloring and then the texture sheet was two regions of solid color.

The main advantage that a proper UV unwrap on the main truss pieces offer is the ability to have an Ambient Occlusion layer to the texture. AO is a render blender (among other software) every pixel of the texture, finds where on the mesh that pixel goes, and do a lot of raycasting to determine where and by how much that point is occluded from infinity. This effectively creates a map of the natural universal shadows of the mesh. For instance, the bottom face of the top trihex peice near the pole is more occluded than most other parts of that mesh, so regardless of light sources and orientation that place on the part will always receive less light, therefore on the AO 'bake' it will be darker. Does that make sense?

Here's an example: This is an engine I'm working on, in the first picture is the mesh rendered flatly without any texture and shaded based on it's angle vs the light source

In this second picture is the AO bake with no lighting applied to the render, all shadows are part of the texture

I then take this AO bake and make it a layer in the texture as I assemble it, vary the intensity and sometimes fiddle with the levels; I bake it normalized, so the darkest shadows are black and the brightest parts are white regardless. In the end I get a texture that looks maybe something like this

The marbling was caused by having blender set to a low bake sample count, I was only told about this setting recently, but I think it looks pretty appropriate for this material and my themes. Yours would probably look better with the higher samples.

I've been writing this post for two hours.... I don't remember what I was talking about, whatever. AOs make things pretty, UV mapping supports better looking and easier to work with textures, but you can largely ignore it of you want to go simple. Might be worthwhile for now just to get things moving, but in the long run AOs will make the pockets on your trihex pieces look amazing, without they may not even be visible.

Edit: Oh that's right, step 2! Once you have the mesh unwrapped properly it's a matter of assembling the 'islands', faces of the UV that are connected to eachother, onto the texture. Blender can do this automatically, but reorganizing it by hand can make it again easier to comprehend while texturing, and aligning straight lines to the X/Y axis where possible can help to prevent jaggy edges (such as here)

Edited June 27, 2014 by Greys

[Sudragon]

I may be completely ignorant here, but is it possible to use procedural tech to allow variable length struts?

[DMagic]

There's quite a bit of good information on texturing, UV maps, and AO in the last Open Part Mod thread: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/81024-The-Open-Part-Mod-Week-23-5-Project-started-Texturing?p=1180360&viewfull=1#post1180360

Good AO layers can really improve the look of your parts. More so if you're going for a relatively untextured, or basic metal look.