parts [1.2] USI Survivability Pack (Formerly DERP) [v0.6.0]

[RoverDude]

New version up with lots of goodness. Monoprop engine, proper mass calc, KASy goodness, and no more collapsing pods.

[4nxs]

Hyperdrive mod development. Nice work RoverDude! I am going to install these on my station and have a "simulated" fire drill.

[Mihara]

...And more on your todo list.

• It would be nice if RCS nozzles on the engine block were disabled when the pod is not deployed. You can do this by foreach (PartModule thatModule in part.Modules) { var thatRCS = thatModule as ModuleRCS; if (thatRCS != null) { thatRCS.Enable(); }} and configuring it to be isEnabled = false. You can do the same for reaction wheels, though you'd need to thatModuleReactionWheels.State = ModuleReactionWheel.WheelState.Active; instead, and you can't start them inactive through the config file, so you'd need to stop them on start. But you'd need to somehow know that the particular pod connected to it was deployed first, which is more tricky -- it shouldn't happen for every lifeboat on the ship when only one is getting deployed.
  
• I don't see water and oxygen actually being added for some reason, not that I use them in the test installation...
  
• It needs an IVA of it's own eventually.
  
• It sinks pretty deep in the water, maybe some buoyancy would be in order.
  

Edited June 29, 2014 by Mihara
one more.

[RoverDude]

...And more on your todo list.

• It would be nice if RCS nozzles on the engine block were disabled when the pod is not deployed. You can do this by foreach (PartModule thatModule in part.Modules) { var thatRCS = thatModule as ModuleRCS; if (thatRCS != null) { thatRCS.Enable(); }} and configuring it to be isEnabled = false. You can do the same for reaction wheels, though you'd need to thatModuleReactionWheels.State = ModuleReactionWheel.WheelState.Active; instead, and you can't start them inactive through the config file, so you'd need to stop them on start. But you'd need to somehow know that the particular pod connected to it was deployed first, which is more tricky -- it shouldn't happen for every lifeboat on the ship when only one is getting deployed.
  
• I don't see water and oxygen actually being added for some reason, not that I use them in the test installation...
  
• It needs an IVA of it's own eventually.
  
• It sinks pretty deep in the water, maybe some buoyancy would be in order.
  

LOL thanks for resources - do you have TAC installed?

[Mihara]

LOL thanks for resources - do you have TAC installed?

No. Every other system that does come with water and oxygen does show them in the resource tab though, and I see them in the resource tab as well, just still empty, hence the confusion. If they aren't meant to be added if TAC is not running, that's perfectly fine but should be documented, imho.

P.S. Oh, and another thought.

Power generation slug should not be a magical RTG. Instead it should be a monopropellant fuel cell. That makes the minimum tech level for such a pod quite a bit lower.

Edited June 29, 2014 by Mihara

[RoverDude]

No. Every other system that does come with water and oxygen does show them in the resource tab though, and I see them in the resource tab as well, just still empty, hence the confusion. If they aren't meant to be added if TAC is not running, that's perfectly fine but should be documented, imho.

P.S. Oh, and another thought.

Power generation slug should not be a magical RTG. Instead it should be a monopropellant fuel cell. That makes the minimum tech level for such a pod quite a bit lower.

Interesting, although I may use an alternate resource since I do not want people to kill themselves deorbiting May use the TAC generator to convert water to oxygen and electricity via the hydrogen. So I'd up the water enough to supply enough hydrogen for 15 days.

[smurphy34]

New version up with lots of goodness. Monoprop engine, proper mass calc, KASy goodness, and no more collapsing pods.

Getting an error uncompressing "DERP_Lifeboat_0.1.4.zip", D/L'ed it twice, don't think it's on my end, but I could be wrong.

[Helix935]

wait where do i download the stockish texture?

[RoverDude]

wait where do i download the stockish texture?

There's a Readme in the download and a folder cald altTextures

[RoverDude]

Getting an error uncompressing "DERP_Lifeboat_0.1.4.zip", D/L'ed it twice, don't think it's on my end, but I could be wrong.

Just created a new version of tie ZIP. should be 1757 K - syncing to DropBox now

[smurphy34]

Just created a new version of tie ZIP. should be 1757 K - syncing to DropBox now

Works good now, thanks for the fast response, and the awesome mods!

Thanks Again!

[westamastaflash]

You win an internet for naming this thing the D.E.R.P.

[ArcFurnace]

Interesting, although I may use an alternate resource since I do not want people to kill themselves deorbiting May use the TAC generator to convert water to oxygen and electricity via the hydrogen. So I'd up the water enough to supply enough hydrogen for 15 days.

I think you may have that backwards, you combine oxygen and hydrogen in a fuel cell, outputting water and electricity. The pod would have stockpiled oxygen, hydrogen, and water, and the fuel cell would provide electricity for environmental control and extra water. You'd have to add a hydrogen resource, or pick a stock resource to represent hydrogen (KSPI did this by assuming LiquidFuel is hydrogen).

Numbers? TAC requires 0.04166 EC/s for support of a single Kerbal, let's round that to 0.05 to have a bit extra for systems and keep the numbers simple. If we want to use real-world numbers we have to assume a conversion of EC to energy; I tend to use KSPI's value of 1 EC/s = 1 kW. 0.05 EC/s would then be 50 W. We want 15 days, so 50 J/s*15 days*24 hr/day*3600 s/hr = 64.8 MJ. Enthalpy of the hydrogen+oxygen reaction is 286 kJ/mol, total system efficiency of a fuel cell is around 50% (varies depending on the cell), so 143 kJ/mol of hydrogen we store. 453 moles of H2, weighing 906 g, plus 226 moles of O2, weighing 7250 g. About 8 kg total hydrogen+oxygen for the electricity supply. TAC resources are 1.8 kg of water per day, so the reaction products will give you 4.5 days of extra water. Maybe round it up to 9 kg stored hydrogen/oxygen (1 kg hydrogen, 8 kg oxygen) and 5 days of water from the reaction products.

TAC oxygen is 0.43 kg/day, so 15 days of breathing oxygen is 6.4 kg, 14.4 kg oxygen total for breathing+fuel cell (33.5 days of oxygen in TAC units). 10 days of water to start (18 kg) plus 5 days from the fuel cell gives you 15 days of water. 1 kg hydrogen, in however many units that turns out to be (depends on the density you choose for the resource). No food because Kerbals can survive without food for more than 15 days; it won't be any fun, but a life pod is supposed to keep you alive, not comfortable. Total life support consumables mass, 33.4 kg (0.0334 in KSP's mass units of metric tons). Alternately, if you don't want confusing numbers in the TAC Oxygen resource, you could just have the new resource be "fuel cell fuel mixture" or some such name, and have 9 kg of that instead of 8 kg oxygen/1 kg hydrogen, plus 15 days Oxygen and 10 days Water.

Hydrogen fuel cell power density is about 100 W/kg on the low end, so the mass of the fuel cell is very low. Things don't necessarily scale down perfectly, but the Wikipedia article shows a 1.2 kW hydrogen fuel cell at 12 kg as an obvious maximum weight, so if we make the fuel cell 11.6 kg that leaves total life support system mass at 0.045 t.

Edited June 29, 2014 by ArcFurnace

[mostlydave]

Whenever I place the engine in the VAB it has all the RCS and engines firing constantly, it does the same thing once launched and doesn't seem to want to decouple, anyone have any idea what might be wrong?

[RoverDude]

I think you may have that backwards, you combine oxygen and hydrogen in a fuel cell, outputting water and electricity. The pod would have stockpiled oxygen, hydrogen, and water, and the fuel cell would provide electricity for environmental control and extra water. You'd have to add a hydrogen resource, or pick a stock resource to represent hydrogen (KSPI did this by assuming LiquidFuel is hydrogen).

Numbers? TAC requires 0.04166 EC/s for support of a single Kerbal, let's round that to 0.05 to have a bit extra for systems and keep the numbers simple. If we want to use real-world numbers we have to assume a conversion of EC to energy; I tend to use KSPI's value of 1 EC/s = 1 kW. 0.05 EC/s would then be 50 W. We want 15 days, so 50 J/s*15 days*24 hr/day*3600 s/hr = 64.8 MJ. Enthalpy of the hydrogen+oxygen reaction is 286 kJ/mol, total system efficiency of a fuel cell is around 50% (varies depending on the cell), so 143 kJ/mol of hydrogen we store. 453 moles of H2, weighing 906 g, plus 226 moles of O2, weighing 7250 g. About 8 kg total hydrogen+oxygen for the electricity supply. TAC resources are 1.8 kg of water per day, so the reaction products will give you 4.5 days of extra water. Maybe round it up to 9 kg stored hydrogen/oxygen (1 kg hydrogen, 8 kg oxygen) and 5 days of water from the reaction products.

TAC oxygen is 0.43 kg/day, so 15 days of breathing oxygen is 6.4 kg, 14.4 kg oxygen total for breathing+fuel cell (33.5 days of oxygen in TAC units). 10 days of water to start (18 kg) plus 5 days from the fuel cell gives you 15 days of water. 1 kg hydrogen, in however many units that turns out to be (depends on the density you choose for the resource). No food because Kerbals can survive without food for more than 15 days; it won't be any fun, but a life pod is supposed to keep you alive, not comfortable. Total life support consumables mass, 33.4 kg (0.0334 in KSP's mass units of metric tons). Alternately, if you don't want confusing numbers in the TAC Oxygen resource, you could just have the new resource be "fuel cell fuel mixture" or some such name, and have 9 kg of that instead of 8 kg oxygen/1 kg hydrogen, plus 15 days Oxygen and 10 days Water.

Hydrogen fuel cell power density is about 100 W/kg on the low end, so the mass of the fuel cell is very low. Things don't necessarily scale down perfectly, but the Wikipedia article shows a 1.2 kW hydrogen fuel cell at 12 kg as an obvious maximum weight, so if we make the fuel cell 11.6 kg that leaves total life support system mass at 0.045 t.

Thanks much! Just saved me a ton of work and research

Whenever I place the engine in the VAB it has all the RCS and engines firing constantly, it does the same thing once launched and doesn't seem to want to decouple, anyone have any idea what might be wrong?

ZIP version? Earlier this eas related to how I was handling the RealChute MM config but that was fixed in the latest zip.

[mostlydave]

DERP_Lifeboat_0.1.4, is there a specific version of RealChute Required?

[RoverDude]

DERP_Lifeboat_0.1.4, is there a specific version of RealChute Required?

I do use the latest version. So if you use RealChute be sure to update that. It for sure will cause this issue.

For my own education - do you have an older version of RealChute installed? I want to see if this is another MM issue, or a RealChute version issue.

[Boomerang]

Just as a heads up, as someone *not* running Real Chutes, there was an error where the full length deployed parachute (with the canopy collasped) was viable in the VAB, the same way it would look in flight before deployment altitude. Clipped through anything else, so it didn't stop me from building anything, but it was there. It was the same way when I launched the craft it was attached to, the rigid parachute clipping through the craft and out the other side.

Of course the parachute functionality didn't work, wasn't even a button for it in the right-click menu.

That being said, once I deleted the RealChutes.cfg it worked fine. Might be worth adding to the readme?

Edit: This is an awesome mod though. I've often spent far too long making lifeboats based upon stock pods and this is so much better!

[Fraz86]

For the LifeBoat module, instead of ad hoc variables like "oxyAmount," why not use something like:

MODULE
{

[INDENT]name = LifeBoat
RESOURCE
{
[INDENT]name = Food
amount = 1[/INDENT]

}
RESOURCE
{

[INDENT]name = Water
amount = 12[/INDENT]

}
RESOURCE
{

[INDENT]name = Oxygen
amount = 15[/INDENT]

}
RESOURCE
{

[INDENT]name = MonoPropellant
amount = 4[/INDENT]

}[/INDENT]
}

This would allow the LifeBoat module to be configured for life support mods that use a different set of resource names.

[Mokmo]

I don't know if it's the fix but 0.1.4 that i just installed did this upon quickloading...

Edit: Also, the kickstand is out.

[RoverDude]

Just as a heads up, as someone *not* running Real Chutes, there was an error where the full length deployed parachute (with the canopy collasped) was viable in the VAB, the same way it would look in flight before deployment altitude. Clipped through anything else, so it didn't stop me from building anything, but it was there. It was the same way when I launched the craft it was attached to, the rigid parachute clipping through the craft and out the other side.

Of course the parachute functionality didn't work, wasn't even a button for it in the right-click menu.

That being said, once I deleted the RealChutes.cfg it worked fine. Might be worth adding to the readme?

Edit: This is an awesome mod though. I've often spent far too long making lifeboats based upon stock pods and this is so much better!

hm, that behavior should be fixed - Make sure if you had an older version that you delete it. Just tried on my dev install with DERP and no realchutes.

For the LifeBoat module, instead of ad hoc variables like "oxyAmount," why not use something like:

MODULE
{

[INDENT]name = LifeBoat
RESOURCE
{
[INDENT]name = Food
amount = 1[/INDENT]

}
RESOURCE
{

[INDENT]name = Water
amount = 12[/INDENT]

}
RESOURCE
{

[INDENT]name = Oxygen
amount = 15[/INDENT]

}
RESOURCE
{

[INDENT]name = MonoPropellant
amount = 4[/INDENT]

}[/INDENT]
}

This would allow the LifeBoat module to be configured for life support mods that use a different set of resource names.

Will add it to the issues list, but for my benefit, what other LS systems would you want to see tested/supported?

I don't know if it's the fix but 0.1.4 that i just installed did this upon quickloading...

http://i.imgur.com/y2k0RZE.png

Edit: Also, the kickstand is out.

Is this a brand new one you created after installing 0.1.4? Or one created before 0.1.4? I expect legacy ones (and this probably includes loading saved ships in the VAB) would still have this bug, but I would want to know if it's happening on brand new ships, since it uses persistence to handle inflating on load (it's actually the default state).

[mostlydave]

The newest version of realchute fixed my problems, the version I had installed was from March!

[RoverDude]

The newest version of realchute fixed my problems, the version I had installed was from March!

Awesome, glad that worked out for you!

[lodestar]

Can either of you help me track this down? I do not get this issue on a clean Squad install with the current zip and the LifeBoat folder completely replaced. For some reason something is making it want to play all of the animations (that's why you see the parachute out there). A mod list would be nice so I can find the offending party.

FYI - the para is on the engines because of how parachutes, animations, dynamic colliders, etc. work.

The issue is fixed after I cleaned DeadlyReentry and RealChutes and reinstalled the latest version from scratch.

[RoverDude]

The issue is fixed after I cleaned DeadlyReentry and RealChutes and reinstalled the latest version from scratch.

Awesome - looks like the consistent thing is the version of RealChutes, so that's good.