Hardcore mode without debug toolbar

[zhenya721]

If you press the button ALT+F12 then will be "debug toolbar" which is a cheat.

I want it either removed or made the game mode, when start a new game and you have locked this feature (alt+12). So as not to be tempted to use it))

+for the use of such "hardcore mode", we can give achievement on steam. While some may just create one game with hardcore mode to reach and remove it. OK, so be it)) In another way, can do so if a person uses the "debug toolbar" player gets achievement (example roguery or something)

But if a person wants to use the debug toolbar - he always can be done either in sandbox mode, or in a career but not in the usual hardcore mode. I think it is very reasonable.

Also may be protected from changing file "persistnet.sfs", because a person can change the hardcore mode to normal, and not only that.

Many will say to me: why don't you just use "debug toolbar" in order to make the game harder?

I will answer: I can not use it. But at the same time, many players who achieve the same results as I, use the "debug toolbar". I mean, I spend effort, tense but other players freebies)) I have nothing against, let it be easier for them to play) But, don't misunderstand me, I just want to receive any "bonuses" for my effort.

[cpast]

There's no way to prevent the player from editing the persistent.sfs file; Squad could make it more difficult by changing it to be a binary file and/or cryptographically signing it, but anything that KSP.exe can edit, a player can edit too. The best this sort of thing could do would be to discourage players from using the cheats in the debug menu (which also is used for things like actual debugging, so restricting the whole menu is not what you presumably meant); in the absence of an achievement system in KSP, I don't see why this is relevant. The game doesn't give you kudos for anything right now; why would it add kudos for not using one particular cheat menu (while not being able to detect things like HyperEdit)?

[Ippo]

Terrible idea. The debug toolbar is meant to debug your game (who would have guessed?), and (guess what?) it's almost a necessity when debugging something like a mod.

If people use it to "cheat", well... who cares? It's a single player game with no achievements. It doesn't even qualify as cheating imho, because it's not like it gives you an extra edge. I could understand if we had achievements, but we don't.

[dlrk]

Yeah, this is a silly suggestion.

[EuSouONumero345]

I am never "tempted" to use the debug mode for cheating, that'd be silly. Actually last time I used it, it was just for fun, like I disabled Kerbin's gravity and started launching spaceplanes and rockets just to hit them with the Whack-A-Kerbal, that's a really fun thing to do because....well....EXPLOSIONS.

[Guest]

I believe that once some sort of scoring is added, careers and all, there should be an indication that the toolbar's been used. But removing it would make debugging harder. Notably, I often made use of it's "reload assets" button in process of fine-tuning configs for things I work on. It's somewhat buggy (certain mods don't like doing this), but it sure beats re-starting KSP every time I make a config tweak.

[Sky_walker]

For it to make any sense - it'd have to ban editing of any files in the game directory too.

What's the point of banning debug console if you still can edit in engines that don't use any fuel, or other equally stupid things / mods?

we can give achievement on steam.

From all possible reasons why I might want to see something like you propose in a game - that's the last one. TBH: I'd rather vote for keeping the debug bar if it means KSP will never get Achievements.

[cpast]

I believe that once some sort of scoring is added, careers and all, there should be an indication that the toolbar's been used.

Who said career will have "scoring"? Money and reputations are supposed to be currencies, not scores.

[MircoMars]

the debug-menu should stay in the game. it's an alpha and it needs to be debugged!

I see the problem with challenges etc. if people need to give themselves a push or are to lazy to build a proper ascent stage or something. for fairness and big brotheryness I suggest the debug-menu could add actionreports to the flight log.

[Red Iron Crown]

B-b-but how can I beat other players if I can't be sure they're not cheating? How will high scores have any meaning?

[cpast]

I see the problem with challenges etc. if people need to give themselves a push or are to lazy to build a proper ascent stage or something. for fairness and big brotheryness I suggest the debug-menu could add actionreports to the flight log.

I'm not even sure why challenges can't remain essentially on the honor system.

[smart013]

Newsflash: you get no score, no credits, no fame and entintlement, no feelings of superiority above other players out of ksp. Just fun. I would like too see that unchanged.

[Darkstar616]

Whats with all this hardcore mode crap, if you really wanna challenge yourself and other people hold competitions or try to blow up each others vessels in multiplayer, without the debug toolbar half of my vessels wouldn't exist because clipping small insignificant things is impossible without it, not to mention if I wanna cheat I use hyperedit which is infinitely better than the debug toolbar. It's easily exploitable especially with the configs and save files wide open for people to edit, a mod disabling and debug disabling feature for official multiplayer would make the most sense, until then just deal with the unfinished game and be creative with how you wanna challenge yourself.