KSP Community CubeSat

[mythic_fci]

FCISuperGuy, i see that there's no landing legs on it. I suppose that it will "fall over" onto it's side when it lands?

Yeah, I should've mentioned that it is supposed to fall on its side. Again, a rubber bumper on that side of the sat should help, considering the spacecraft is already at landing velocity, not escape velocity.

[Nicholander]

I see... so a Busek Ion propulsion system would be the best option, and I'm assuming we're going to use the BRFIT-7. Also, those the BRFIT-7 have enough thrust to do a soft landing on Phobos?

[K^2]

3u Cubesat to GTO $650k

That's quite a bit higher than I expected. Do you have a quote for that?

On lithobraking on Phobos. It would probably work, but there is no way not to bounce. It would probably be ok if we have to land in a few small bounces at low speed, but at full speed, it might be a bit much. On the other hand, there should be sufficient time to kill if not all, then most of the speed using even an electrostat. So the actual landing might end up being a combination of the two.

[BlazingAngel665]

http://i.imgur.com/BA7KYQq.png

This probe is a simpler version of the last. If you were to use an electric propulsion unit, the single solar panel unit would have to be big. For a monopropellant unit, the single solar panel could be somewhat smaller. The sensor and experiments arm houses the spacecraft radiator (heat exchange unit) and all the spacecraft sensors and scientific experimental equipment, somewhat like the large radial arms of the Voyager spacecraft. The engine I will leave up to you to decide, so I just wrote "Fuel tank" and "Engine" to be filled with either xenon gas and an electric propulsion system or hydrazine and a monopropellant engine.

For solar array the simplest (and probably most effective) solution would be four 30cm x 10cm arrays stowed alongside the craft until deployment. Clyde Space stocks these pannels, and we can get some that are about 200g per array. Each one will give us about 7 watts during our MTO injection. With basic folding clips, we can stow 2 to a side, we can get about 60 watts. This gives us 20 watts for electronics and comms and 40 for prop. Each of those arrays is about $5k, so we are talking about $40,000 to equip the electrical system, plus battery costs, on the downside we are talking about 1.6kg, or almost half of our crafts mass in solar cells, so we may want to shop around on that one.

EDIT: BRFIT-7 is way too much engine for us, we would float the gap in the current models with a 40w model.

EDIT2: costs came from here, note this also includes launch services and itegration. http://spaceflightservices.com/pricing-plans/ we also have to find a way to pay to recieve telemetry either on the DSN or a similar service.

Edited July 15, 2014 by BlazingAngel665

[mythic_fci]

For solar array the simplest (and probably most effective) solution would be four 30cm x 10cm arrays stowed alongside the craft until deployment. Clyde Space stocks these pannels, and we can get some that are about 200g per array. Each one will give us about 7 watts during our MTO injection. With basic folding clips, we can stow 2 to a side, we can get about 60 watts. This gives us 20 watts for electronics and comms and 40 for prop. Each of those arrays is about $5k, so we are talking about $40,000 to equip the electrical system, plus battery costs, on the downside we are talking about 1.6kg, or almost half of our crafts mass in solar cells, so we may want to shop around on that one.

Okay, good. To give you all an accurate idea of what I mean by that blueprint in 3D, I'm making one in KSP!

Edited July 15, 2014 by FCISuperGuy

[sgt_flyer]

Mmh - regarding any destination beyond mars/phobos - i don't think any cubesat can remain usable at these distances - the cubesats solar panels will not be enough at these distance to power the probe's systems at all (especially if using ion propulsion). (Rosetta has oversized solar panels, and had to go into hibernation when she was too far away)

Else , most probes don't need a main engine. They use their RCS nozzles to make their delta-v changes. (Even ion engines are sometimes used to replace chemical monopropellant nozzles)

[Teoman2]

Here, have a quick paint picture that I made...

(It's not that good...)

Needs more work...

Edit-Its not showing my picture...

Edited July 15, 2014 by Teoman2
WHHHHY

[Rakaydos]

here's the people that did the solar cells for the japaneee solar sail craft: http://www.powerfilmsolar.com/

[BlazingAngel665]

This would be something like what we would use. 1u for prop, 1u for avionics, attitude, and comms, 1u for science and spare fuel.

[Nicholander]

EDIT: BRFIT-7 is way too much engine for us, we would float the gap in the current models with a 40w model.

On the Busek Ion Thrusters page the BRFIT-3 consumes 80w, but the BRFIT-1 consumes 10w. So you mean like custom designing an ion engine? I don't think that is cheap compared to a hydrazine solution, or making larger solar panels to use the BRFIT-3.

[Nicholander]

That's the CAT CubeSat, with a water powered propulsion system. Are you talking about using the solar panel configuration or the CAT propulsion system?

[BlazingAngel665]

On the Busek Ion Thrusters page the BRFIT-3 consumes 80w, but the BRFIT-1 consumes 10w. So you mean like custom designing an ion engine? I don't think that is cheap compared to a hydrazine solution, or making larger solar panels to use the BRFIT-3.

1. More solar pannels is more weight, which we can't have because we need the propellant.

2. As long as you keep your voltage up you should be able to undercurrent an ion engine as long as the halo remains stable. Alternatively Busek has many other high ISP designs.

EDIT: Either or, but I pulled the pic because it is a 3u sat with the expected solar deployment.

[Nicholander]

I wonder if it would be possible to collaborate with any of the other teams who are/have KickStarted spacecraft/CubeSats. (SkyCube, CAT, ArduSat, etc.)

[Nicholander]

Here, have a quick paint picture that I made...

(It's not that good...)

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Needs more work...

Edit-Its not showing my picture...

Try using Imgur.

[problemecium]

Just spouting a random brain fart here, but...

what if we fling it into interstellar space and include a copy of KSP for the aliens to play? Yes, that is assuming that someday an intelligent civilization miraculously manages to find, recover, and decode it, but it's still a nice thought, no?

[K^2]

This would be something like what we would use. 1u for prop, 1u for avionics, attitude, and comms, 1u for science and spare fuel.

Pretty much that. Though, panel arrangement might need to be different. It'd be nice if we can either use panels themselves or additional covers that go over them to assist in aerobraking.

The launch cost of 1U to LEO from the service you've listed is also through the roof, though. There are definitely cheaper ways to launch to LEO. May be possible to find a cheaper ride to GTO as well.

Edited July 15, 2014 by K^2

[Nicholander]

K^2, do you know any other NASA or ESA launches that are offering to launch CubeSats for a lower price?

[K^2]

I'll take a look at what Russians are offering. They occasionally have discount com-sat rides. Might be possible to send something along.

[Nicholander]

On a somewhat unrelated note (Compared to the Phobos stuff), do you have any ideas on what experiments we could do with our first mission. (It'll probably be to LEO or maybe GTO, and it might actually end up being a debris de-orbit tech demo.)

EDIT: I also found this company like Clyde Space, called GOMspace. They also have CubeSat parts that you can buy. http://gomspace.com/

Edited July 15, 2014 by Nicholander

[Streetwind]

I voted for a Venus capture, simply because so many people are always looking towards Mars but so few are looking towards Venus. It's the most earthlike planet aside from Earth itself in the entire solar system, for crying out loud! And going towards the inner planets also means the craft needs less solar panel area.

Mind you, I agree that it's exceedingly unlikely to fly a mission beyond LEO with a cubesat. But then again, that fact just might make it interesting enough to potential free ride providers...

(I haven't read the entirethread, but I hope the point of radiation hardening has come up.)

[Nicholander]

Also, i found another Clyde Space like thing: Innovative Solutions In Space (ISIS). http://www.isispace.nl/cms/

[K^2]

For LEO, it looks like magnetic torque is going to be enough for attitude control, which means that part can be practically free, yet reliable. So we're honestly down to solar panels as the only expensive bit. If we can get a free ride, a LEO mission is definitely doable. But I'm not liking the prices on the rides so far.

[Nicholander]

What's the cheapest ride you've found? And have you found any GTO rides?

EDIT: I've found yet another Clyde Space like thing, CubeSatShop: http://www.cubesatshop.com/

Edited July 15, 2014 by Nicholander

[dharak1]

If we manage to find an affordable ride to GTO I think it would be nice to map the surface of Phobos with the camera if it lasts that long. It's a cool mission and we would be doing something no one has done with a cubesat before. We would also be making the first satellite around Phobos.

[Nicholander]

Our plan is to actually Land on Phobos.