KSP Community CubeSat

[Nicholander]

So dharak1, you think it's impossible to put an inflatable area where we can study the plants and bacteria inside. I don't think it'll actually that expensive, and it can fit in a 1U CubeSat. Though it will require compact systems (MPU, computers, batteries, etc.).

[dharak1]

Does that settle it then? Our goal is LEO with a camera and to send at least a few pictures back? The next step is deciding on hardware and what chassis to put it in. Then we can set up a budget.

Edit: sorry didn't see your post. I think it may be a little ambitious for a first basic mission to attempt an inflatable section let alone one with living organisms inside.

[Nicholander]

I agree 100% with this. It's probably far harder than we think to get something somewhere besides LEO. We should, for all practical purposes, avoid aiming too high. Safer to do so than aim high for something higher than LEO. Anyways, even that would be a HUGE accomplishment. It's space (or really close to it, depending on the LEO height we're looking at). Just that opens up lots of possibilities for data collection (maybe instruments like spectrometers and other instruments that collect radiation and force data, and other instruments of such nature that one could use to find data correlations at certain times [i don't know, this all seems neat to me] and even though it might not be something very far beyond our atmosphere it would still be really awesome, man.

I agree that for our first mission, we can pretty much only do LEO (If we're extremely lucky, maybe GTO). But we can put more on it then just a camera and basic sensors. We want to do something unique, and not just do a downgraded version of something that has already been done before. And we should put an inflatable area on it, as Error404brain and I agree.

[dharak1]

I don't think we would be able to put together an inflatable module with the limited budget we will get. More stuff means more space and that means a higher launch cost along with more equipment and that drives the cost up greatly.

[Nicholander]

Does that limited budget include the KickStarter? Because I really don't see how we can't put a pressurized area in it, It's not as hard to do that as you think. Just look at the stuff Error404barin said.

[Nicholander]

As a first step toward a project like this, it might be a good idea to send a few KSP forum members to iCubeSat next May. Maybe we could even collaboratively prepare and present a paper. (Abstracts aren't due until April next year.) This would actually be pretty cool, and is a truly reasonable first step for this kind of project. Also allows networking, exposes us to ideas, etc.

Yeah, you're right. We should send a few people there, it'll get us some ideas and experience.

[dharak1]

I don't think we would be able to bring an airbag along. We also have a weight limit. 1.3 kilos for a 1U and it would be a tab bit of a stretch to think we could get a 2U a 2U launch the specialty equipment required to inflate the module and regulate the pressure and temperature of the module along with the stuff we need like solar panels for just a regular functional cubesat and still be within budget. 2U launches are even more expensive than a 1U launch and then we would need to find a company willing to allow us to bring an airbag on their rocket with the risk of something going wrong. We are much more likely to succeed at a 1U mission that takes pictures and beams them back than an inflatable module mission.

[AngelLestat]

If you want to put just a camera to take picture from out there. You would not get any funds. Nobody would care. There is nothing new.

On the other hand, test an electrodynamic tether (is just a aluminum wire) with a load in the extreme, is something with real scientific value and no hard to do. Ok, there were many people who tried and they find that the tether do not survive long time due to micro debris, for that reason the new tethers are double, so there is almost no chance to get hit in the joint.

Almost all the parts needed to harvester the tether energy and get propulsion from this are in sale.

We can test many principles with this, gravity gradient, energy harvesting and propulssion and final deorbiting. Release the tether is simple, you give it a small push, the gravity do the rest.

[Skyler4856]

We should also perform a unique experiment, how about a counter-weight style centrifuge, similar to that on mars direct?

[Nicholander]

Okay, I see your point, but we really should do something unique, because doing a downgraded version of something that has already been done before is not just exciting. It's been proven that you can KickStart CubeSats, and we should do something wonderful too, and wonderful is not a new propulsion system or going to GTO or further. What do you think we can do that's unique?

EDIT: Skyler4856, that's actually a great idea! Though I don't know how much electricity it would drain spinning the centrifuge.

[dharak1]

The tether seems kind of feasible besides weight restrictions. The counterweight seems promising besides the fact that the weight on the other end would need to be at least 30 percent of the mass at the other end. That cuts the sensors and other equipment we can put on the mission. From what I've read about the tether it seems more promising than the counterweight. If we can find a light enough tether we could do that and it seems to be a very useful mission as well. I like the counterweight and if we can find a way to make it work on a 1 or 2U with the weight restrictions I'm all for it but in the meantime we should focus on the tether and look for the options we have for that.

[Nicholander]

If you want to put just a camera to take picture from out there. You would not get any funds. Nobody would care. There is nothing new.

On the other hand, test an electrodynamic tether (is just a aluminum wire) with a load in the extreme, is something with real scientific value and no hard to do. Ok, there were many people who tried and they find that the tether do not survive long time due to micro debris, for that reason the new tethers are double, so there is almost no chance to get hit in the joint.

Almost all the parts needed to harvester the tether energy and get propulsion from this are in sale.

We can test many principles with this, gravity gradient, energy harvesting and propulssion and final deorbiting. Release the tether is simple, you give it a small push, the gravity do the rest.

That's also a brilliant idea! So we could test electrodynamic tethered propulsion, cheap and no one's successfully done it before!

[Kevon87]

Personally, I don't think we'll be able to do much more than the cam/jeb figurine/radio setup on the first mission. But who knows how much we'll get on kickstarter.

Perhaps a goal system can be implemented, the size of the sat and how much stuff is crammed inside depending on how much we can raise.

Example:

$XX,000: 1U cubesat with cam and transmitter

$XXX,000:2 or 3U cubesat with cam, transmitter and additional experiments

Just add that in the pitch.

[Nicholander]

Yeah, that's called stretch goals. But I do think that we can do an electrodynamic tethered propulsion tech demo.

[dharak1]

I like the idea of stretch goals. Once we get a budget together we can do one for a basic 1U with our camera and stuff and then a stretch goal of a few tens of thousands more for the tethered propulsion.

[Nicholander]

Tens of thousands? As AngelLestat said, it is actually quite cheap. Just an aluminum wire and a weight on the other end.

[dharak1]

It still requires more space and weight meaning higher launch costs. Also needs special equipment not as much as a counterweight or inflatable module but it still requires at least a 2U and as I mentioned more space means higher launch costs but also increases our weight we can have and that's a huge bonus.

[Nicholander]

So you're saying that we can only do the electrodynamic tethered propulsion tech demo as a stretch goal? *Sigh* For our main funding goal, what unique thing would we be able to do? We shouldn't just do a downgraded version of something that has already been done before, who will be interested in that?

[dharak1]

There's no shame in doing something that's already been done before. We would be the first forum to launch a satellite and send pictures back. It is still a challenge and people would still fund it. We could get at least 5k from the forum and I'm sure people here can contact people they know to help out and we could kickstart the rest.

[Nicholander]

Yes, I see your point. But there is nothing wrong with doing something new and unique, and by doing that we would probably get more funds on our KickStarter.

EDIT: Also, here's an electrodynamic tethered propulsion visualization I made:

Edited July 17, 2014 by Nicholander

[dharak1]

No matter what we build it can't have anything on the outside. It has to fit inside the little deployment bay on the spacecraft. They bay is built for cubes exactly 10x10x10cm. I wasn't aware that the tether would need a weight at the end as well. It probably wouldn't need to be as heavy as the mars direct type centrifuge it still has a penalty on what equipment we can bring. The tether type of mission needs a 2U cubesat.

[Nicholander]

Well, we can fit the counterweight on the inside of the 1U CubeSat, though the computers and systems would need to be pretty compact, because some of the space would be taken by the counterweight deployment bay. Though, it can still be done.

[cpast]

No matter what we build it can't have anything on the outside. It has to fit inside the little deployment bay on the spacecraft. They bay is built for cubes exactly 10x10x10cm. I wasn't aware that the tether would need a weight at the end as well. It probably wouldn't need to be as heavy as the mars direct type centrifuge it still has a penalty on what equipment we can bring. The tether type of mission needs a 2U cubesat.

You can get a bit of extra space on a 3U (as you have a deployment unit to yourself), but that requires a 3U.

[Nicholander]

cpast, you can also do it with a smaller 2U, and as how I described maybe a 1U.

[dharak1]

Yeah we are pretty limited with what we can do on this mission. We still need to set expectations low and the tether will still need to be a stretch goal only.