[24.2] Karbonite Ongoing Dev and Discussion

[RoverDude]

No, I mean when both are running, it produces whatever I'm converting Karbonite into at a vastly increased rate - so there's always 0 Karbonite in the tank, but the empty MonoProp or Metal tank (or whatever) fills much much faster than the Karbonite seemed to be coming out of the ground when the converter was off, if that makes sense.

Example:

Only the drill going: Karbonite comes out of ground at X units per second. Wait 100 seconds: 100 units. Convert to metal: 60 units. Should mean that the Karbonite equivalent of 0.6X metal comes out of the ground per second, essentially.

With drill and converter both running, Karbonite is converted as fast as it comes out of the ground, but I am getting the equivalent of at least 60X metal - far more than should be coming out based on the rate at which Karbonite alone comes out.

It also happened with MonoProp...

EDIT: I should clarify that I have both Kethane and EPL installed to see if I can make either work with Karbonite, in case it's not Karbonite but the combination that's producing this phenomenon.

EDIT AGAIN: Also, here (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/59567837/ProceduralKarbonite.cfg) is a procedural Karbonite tank cfg I whipped up. It holds slightly less Karbonite per volume with 500kg more dry weight (at the equivalent size) than the included Karbonite tank - for anyone who might find it useful.

I'll need to investigate - would be helpful if anyone else on the thread can lend a hand and help troubleshoot this one. I'm up to my elbows in a code base at the moment, only here while I wait for KSP to load (testing code for Hollow Asteroids)

I had this idea which had probably been mentioned before but what of you made this a two resource system. Where you had karbonite and byproduct. This would solve some issues like the "philosophers stone" type mechanic where you can turn something into something else with a 1:1 ratio. This would also increase the scope of the mod without adding complexity. Meaning you could then use the byproduct to manufacture other resources like xenon. It might even make it better for other mods to integrate more easily, or believable.

It's prob to late in the development for this now but putting it out there. And prob could just do this with some mm configs.

No byproduct at the moment, right now we lose about 50% - 75% of our mass in waste based on the product. The design intent is to start with one resource, and encourage people to add on (via MM, etc.)

[AccidentalDisassembly]

I had this idea which had probably been mentioned before but what of you made this a two resource system. Where you had karbonite and byproduct. This would solve some issues like the "philosophers stone" type mechanic where you can turn something into something else with a 1:1 ratio. This would also increase the scope of the mod without adding complexity. Meaning you could then use the byproduct to manufacture other resources like xenon. It might even make it better for other mods to integrate more easily, or believable.

It's prob to late in the development for this now but putting it out there. And prob could just do this with some mm configs.

Based on my rudimentary and just recently-acquired knowledge of the ModuleGenerator that's used to reprocess Karbonite into other stuff, you can set whatever conversion ratio you want - so you could turn 1 Karbonite into 0.0000001 xenon. But I don't know about having a byproduct, except that you could maybe somehow define a new resource (Karboslag) and patch the converter to output that in addition to whatever else you're using... maybe?

[Stage]

I would borrow a model you like and add converter configs for MKS Ore to RocketParts.

EPL works without Kethane installed, only the ressource generation and reprocessing is missing.

Edit:

I would love to see some converter/ "factory" models for mods like Near Future Technologies (hey Nertea! Do you have any spare models around? ) to produce Argon/LiquidHydrogen/Uranium?

The same for KSPI.

Edited July 27, 2014 by Stage

[enneract]

I would borrow a model you like and add converter configs for MKS Ore to RocketParts.

EPL works without Kethane installed, only the ressource generation and reprocessing is missing.

Add it to the existing EPL models?

[mostlydave]

I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong, and I was really excited to try this out, but I just can't find any deposits. I tried setting up a test rig and it shows 0.0ppm no matter where I set it down. I tried scanning with a satellite in orbit and nothing shows up on the map and It never shows anything other than 0.0ppm.

Is there another mod that is required to get this working?

[enneract]

I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong, and I was really excited to try this out, but I just can't find any deposits. I tried setting up a test rig and it shows 0.0ppm no matter where I set it down. I tried scanning with a satellite in orbit and nothing shows up on the map and It never shows anything other than 0.0ppm.

Is there another mod that is required to get this working?

You are using texturereplacer?

The MKS_ORS.cfg file that ships with Karbonite is incorrect, it needs to read like this

TextureReplacer
{keepLoaded = ^UmbraSpaceIndustries/MKS/ORS/ ^UmbraSpaceIndustries/Karbonite/ORS/}

[Revolution-420]

Maybe it would be cool to add a venting particle effect to the converter when it's on.

[AccidentalDisassembly]

Here is a small MM patch that adds to the included Karbonite converter the ability to convert Karbonite into Metal for EPL - I skipped the Ore stage, since I figure Karbonite itself is basically ore-like. I arbitrarily chose an efficiency of 60%, since that's what EPL's Ore->Metal conversion was (I think): --EDIT: Actually, I think it's far lower than that, but whatever: it's easily edited.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/59567837/KarboniteConvert_EPL-Metal.cfg

Currently attempting to fiddle with EPL configs so that it works off of Karbonite rather than Ore, and so that all the converters & drills function properly. Don't even know how to make an EPL drill function properly alone, however, so we'll see how this works.

Question though: does a part need both ORSModuleResourceExtraction and KarboniteDrill modules to function as a Karbonite drill?

Edited July 27, 2014 by AccidentalDisassembly

[Mutifex]

I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong, and I was really excited to try this out, but I just can't find any deposits. I tried setting up a test rig and it shows 0.0ppm no matter where I set it down. I tried scanning with a satellite in orbit and nothing shows up on the map and It never shows anything other than 0.0ppm.

Is there another mod that is required to get this working?

Are you using texture replacer? I had the same problem. If so, edit the MKS_ORS.cfg file in the texture replacer folder to read as follows:

TextureReplacer

{

keepLoaded = ^UmbraSpaceIndustries/MKS/ORS/ ^UmbraSpaceIndustries/Karbonite/ORS/

}

The config file in the distribution isn't quite formatted right is all

[enneract]

Here is a small MM patch that adds to the included Karbonite converter the ability to convert Karbonite into Metal for EPL - I skipped the Ore stage, since I figure Karbonite itself is basically ore-like. I arbitrarily chose an efficiency of 60%, since that's what EPL's Ore->Metal conversion was (I think):

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/59567837/KarboniteConvert_EPL-Metal.cfg

Currently attempting to fiddle with EPL configs so that it works off of Karbonite rather than Ore, and so that all the converters & drills function properly. Don't even know how to make an EPL drill function properly alone, however, so we'll see how this works.

Question though: does a part need both ORSModuleResourceExtraction and KarboniteDrill modules to function as a Karbonite drill?

Why not use MM to switch the existing EPL parts to do the conversions that already exist in EPL. No need to go and do weird things like convert Karbonite to rocket parts. Ore exists as a resource already.

[protoz]

@roverdude i mentioned this earlier not sure if you saw

The converters work at full speed regardless of karbonite storage or karbonite ppm, as long as the drill is active they convert.

[Floppster]

Quick question about the Karbonite converter's cfg, sorry if it's a silly one. Is adding a new resource (that Karbonite can be converted into) as simple as adding something like this via a MM patch or to the cfg directly:

Meaning that this mod could already support things like RocketParts, or Metal, or even LiquidHydrogen or what have you? Do you have to work any dark magic to get it to fill a tank for that resource appropriately?

You should add

requiresAllInputs = true

as well

[sidfu]

mks addes ore to ORS so all u should need to do to the kerbanite drills is change what its mining and the ammount. what would be a good drill ammount for ore thru kerbanite drill?

{
name = ORSModuleResourceExtraction
powerConsumptionLand = 2.5
powerConsumptionOcean = 0.001
extractionRateLandPerTon = 1
extractionRateOceanPerTon = 0.1
resourceName = Ore
unitName = Ore Extractor
extractActionName = Extract Ore
stopActionName = Stop Ore Extraction
resourceManaged = False
resourceToUse = ElectricCharge
}

is whawt mks is using so u could change it over with a simple MM file to be used by the kerbanite drill

Edited July 27, 2014 by sidfu

[The Pink Ranger]

Quick question about the Karbonite converter's cfg, sorry if it's a silly one. Is adding a new resource (that Karbonite can be converted into) as simple as adding something like this via a MM patch or to the cfg directly:

Meaning that this mod could already support things like RocketParts, or Metal, or even LiquidHydrogen or what have you? Do you have to work any dark magic to get it to fill a tank for that resource appropriately?

Thanks for spelling it out for me. All I had to do was paste the following into the converter cfg to add the fuel I wanted from near future propulsion.

MODULE

{

name = ModuleGenerator

isAlwaysActive = false

activateGUIName = Start LiquidHydrogen

shutdownGUIName = Stop LiquidHydrogen

INPUT_RESOURCE

{

name = Karbonite

rate = 0.1

}

INPUT_RESOURCE

{

name = ElectricCharge

rate = 1.5

}

OUTPUT_RESOURCE

{

name = LiquidHydrogen

rate = 0.09

}

}

[AccidentalDisassembly]

Why not use MM to switch the existing EPL parts to do the conversions that already exist in EPL. No need to go and do weird things like convert Karbonite to rocket parts. Ore exists as a resource already.

EPL's Ore exists as a resource if you have Kethane installed, I think. If you don't have Kethane, and only Karbonite, there's no point to converting Karbonite (which seems like an ore) -> Ore -> Metal -> Rocket Parts. Otherwise, I am keeping the EPL conversions mostly intact (or attempting to).

EDIT: I mean to say that it exists as something you can pull out of the ground only with Kethane - it's defined whether or not you have Kethane installed, but I think Kethane has to be installed for you to pull it out of the ground using EPL.

Edited July 27, 2014 by AccidentalDisassembly

[mostlydave]

That did it thanks!

You are using texturereplacer?

The MKS_ORS.cfg file that ships with Karbonite is incorrect, it needs to read like this

TextureReplacer
{keepLoaded = ^UmbraSpaceIndustries/MKS/ORS/ ^UmbraSpaceIndustries/Karbonite/ORS/}

[enneract]

EPL's Ore exists as a resource if you have Kethane installed, I think. If you don't have Kethane, and only Karbonite, there's no point to converting Karbonite (which seems like an ore) -> Ore -> Metal -> Rocket Parts. Otherwise, I am keeping the EPL conversions mostly intact (or attempting to).

EDIT: I mean to say that it exists as something you can pull out of the ground - it's defined whether or not you have Kethane installed, but I think Kethane has to be installed for you to pull it out of the ground using EPL.

I'm reasonably certain that EPL adds ORS deposits also. Or maybe that is MKS. Not sure. Either way, ATM I have EPL + MKS + Karbonite, and I have ORS Ore + Minerals

[sidfu]

epl doesnt use ors but mks addes ore to ors

[AccidentalDisassembly]

epl doesnt use ors but mks addes ore to ors

Aha - well in any case, eliminating the step of getting Ore from the ground makes sense in the event that someone wants to play with Karbonite + EPL, but without either Kethane or MKS.

So far I have managed to make the game crash a lot with my attempted patch. Huzzah!

EDIT: Can't figure out why none of the EPL parts will show up anymore in the VAB. Here's an example of a module manager edit to them:

@PART[ExWorkshop]:Final
{
    -MODULE[KethaneConverter] {} // Get rid of the KethaneConverter module

    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleGenerator
        isAlwaysActive = false
        activateGUIName = Convert Metal
        shutdownGUIName = Stop Metal

        INPUT_RESOURCE
        {
           name = Metal
           rate = 0.5
        }    

        INPUT_RESOURCE
        {
           name = ElectricCharge
           rate = 10
        }        

        OUTPUT_RESOURCE
        {
           name = RocketParts
           rate = 0.7
        }
        OUTPUT_RESOURCE
        {
           name = ScrapMetal
           rate = 0.3
        }        
    }
}

Am I doing something horribly wrong in this MM config?

Edited July 27, 2014 by AccidentalDisassembly

[rabidninjawombat]

6. I would kill if someone from the community could take on this one, because I am lousy at it. We have enough bits.

Re: A trailer, If no one else is working on one, ill gladly throw one together, since i'm not an expert coder or modeler, this is one thing i can do

Give me a couple days and ill get something put together.

Do you have a full res version of the USI company logo to use?

[sidfu]

accidental did u take a look at the mks modules to see if u could use any of them for example

  MODULE
  {
      name = KolonyConverter
      converterName = Metals
      conversionRate = 1
      inputResources = Ore, 0.51000, ElectricCharge, 2.50,PatchKits,0.00000002125,RepairKits,0.00000002125,PunchCards,0.00085
      outputResources = Metal, 0.05100, False, RareMetals, 0.0000510, False,Recyclables,0.000425,true
      requiredResources = BasicMachinery,900,MEP-Refining,100
      SurfaceOnly = False
  }

with some tweaking should be able to use it to make the metals

[AccidentalDisassembly]

accidental did u take a look at the mks modules to see if u could use any of them for example

  MODULE
  {
      name = KolonyConverter
      converterName = Metals
      conversionRate = 1
      inputResources = Ore, 0.51000, ElectricCharge, 2.50,PatchKits,0.00000002125,RepairKits,0.00000002125,PunchCards,0.00085
      outputResources = Metal, 0.05100, False, RareMetals, 0.0000510, False,Recyclables,0.000425,true
      requiredResources = BasicMachinery,900,MEP-Refining,100
      SurfaceOnly = False
  }

with some tweaking should be able to use it to make the metals

That would be fine for MKS users, but wouldn't it be best not to make the Karbonite + EPL combination also dependent on MKS? As-is I have metal conversion working correctly (Karbonite to metal) but experience lots of crashes with my MM patch intended to change all of the EPL stuff to work with Karbonite...

[enneract]

That would be fine for MKS users, but wouldn't it be best not to make the Karbonite + EPL combination also dependent on MKS? As-is I have metal conversion working correctly (Karbonite to metal) but experience lots of crashes with my MM patch intended to change all of the EPL stuff to work with Karbonite...

Frankly, I think that EPL without MKS doesn't make much sense.

[sidfu]

u would only have to have a few files on it and right now u dont have much choice u can try one of the generic resouce converters. its only a option so right now u can use epl as it stands right now u can drile for ore with kethane but cant use converters so using the mks module for now is best imo cause mks and epl go togehter perfect. have colony on planet and the space ship building in orbit.

ima probaly try it before play again gonna do manual edits to epl .cfg and see what i aget.

[AccidentalDisassembly]

u would only have to have a few files on it and right now u dont have much choice u can try one of the generic resouce converters. its only a option so right now u can use epl as it stands right now u can drile for ore with kethane but cant use converters so using the mks module for now is best imo cause mks and epl go togehter perfect. have colony on planet and the space ship building in orbit.

I fail to see in any of this how it makes MORE sense to make the patch I am attempting to write depend on MKS rather than not - if it doesn't depend on MKS, that does not mean you can't use it with MKS. It just means that, if you installed this particular MM patch which remains entirely theoretical since all it has done so far is crash for mysterious reasons, you could, if you choose, convert straight from Karbonite to Metal in the Karbonite converter and EPL parts (smelters) and drill for Karbonite with EPL drills in addition to doing whatever MKS does. It doesn't prevent anyone from adding another patch so that the EPL drills also somehow pull ore out of the ground via MKS, so far as I know.