[24.2] Karbonite Ongoing Dev and Discussion

[Veelay]

Well, you want to deliver LF+Ox since those propulsion systems have higher ISP.

Quick back of the envelope, I would expect ~50% delivered mass to be the best you could do using LV-Ns to do most of the delta V work. (I get about 2800 m/s from Minmus surface to LKO and back; you could throw in some Aero braking to shave that a bit on the way down.). With no LV-Ns ~35% delivered.

Putting your construction station 700 m/s above LKO (about 3/4 of the way to Mun) would get delivery up to maybe 70%. Of course that would make it 700 m/s farther away from Kerbin for its other deliveries.

Gameplay wise it depends on what you find fun. I like getting funds from missions and will use the Davon supply module to get things delivered into Kerbin orbit. (Costs more than would pay to do it by hand, but avoids the tedium of repeated supply launches).

Likewise, you could use a supply shuttle to move between Kerbin and Minmus SOI combined with the Orbital Logistics module from MKS/OKS to make delivering fuel from Minmus a lot less tedious (although you would still end up using a lot of fuel mass to get the deliveries made.)

Ok, thanks! I think I'll have some sort of orbital cargo ship to go between Minmus and Kerbin, since I also want to deliver Rocket Parts manufactured at the same site. The base is built with MKS, so I may use the logistics modules (assuming you mean the inflatable storage modules, right?). I also try and use USI's Freight Transportation mod, although I think part of the problem is that honestly I'm really bad at building efficient things like that. Takes a lot of trial and error! Maybe I'll look for some advanced tutorials on YouTube. I've got the whole TWR and Delta-V thing down, but clearly I'm missing something, hehe.

[Floppster]

Is there any way of increasing the range of the particle collector or is that hard coded? I checked the config and the only number i could connect to that was particleRate. Does this affect the range or am I way off?

[RoverDude]

Is there any way of increasing the range of the particle collector or is that hard coded? I checked the config and the only number i could connect to that was particleRate. Does this affect the range or am I way off?

It's based on the planet atmosphere by design. These are more upper atmosphere skimmers, the 10% allowance is to allow people to work on rails. Is there an issue?

[Floppster]

There's no issue, I just wanted to increase the range for fun and profit

[RoverDude]

There's no issue, I just wanted to increase the range for fun and profit

Fair enough

Look at the particle collector that comes with K+ - it has an extra field that's a static bonus to the collector altitude. You can just add that into the other collector.

[inigma]

What are your thoughts on diversifying the Karbonite production system to a triumverate of 3 resources, Karbonite, Karboron, and Karbonium?

Karbonite should be a land resource, infinite.

Karbaron should be an atmosphere and water resource, infinite.

Karbonium should be a space and asteroid resource, limited.

Karbonite makes liquid fuel

Karboron makes oxidizer

Karbonite + Karboron makes mono propellant

Karbonium maken xenon gas

Is this the thread to suggest it??

[Floppster]

Fair enough

Look at the particle collector that comes with K+ - it has an extra field that's a static bonus to the collector altitude. You can just add that into the other collector.

Cool, I'll check it out. Is the bonus a distance or a percentage of the atmosphere?

[RoverDude]

What are your thoughts on diversifying the Karbonite production system to a triumverate of 3 resources, Karbonite, Karboron, and Karbonium?

Karbonite should be a land resource, infinite.

Karbaron should be an atmosphere and water resource, infinite.

Karbonium should be a space and asteroid resource, limited.

Karbonite makes liquid fuel

Karboron makes oxidizer

Karbonite + Karboron makes mono propellant

Karbonium maken xenon gas

Is this the thread to suggest it??

Yep, there are a few proposals on the table similar to that. It would likely however be more in line with K+ or a similar pack - reason being some people prefer the simplicity of Karbonite, and others want something more complex. Also with the introduction of new parts, we have a bit of bloat, so I prefer those being in separate packs to help with download pressure. K+ is a good example of how to extend Karbonite.

Cool, I'll check it out. Is the bonus a distance or a percentage of the atmosphere?

Bonus distance, it was used in K+ to allow us to have a solar 'atmosphere'

[Floppster]

Yeah, I figured it was distance as 2000% seems a bit off

[inigma]

Yep, there are a few proposals on the table similar to that. It would likely however be more in line with K+ or a similar pack - reason being some people prefer the simplicity of Karbonite, and others want something more complex. Also with the introduction of new parts, we have a bit of bloat, so I prefer those being in separate packs to help with download pressure. K+ is a good example of how to extend Karbonite.

If you want to keep simple and then expand complex, then perhaps we keep Karbonite as the universal resource, but then develop an expansion that adds a single refinement layer to processing Karbonite as it is refined into A, B, and C in a 9:3:1 ratio. A, B, and C, could be whatever is decided to name those resources.

Karbonite would remain infinite, but 90% rarer, still locatable anywhere in land, sea, air, and space.

A would be found only in land and water, and would be finite. Distilled into liquid fuel and monopropellant.

B would be found only in ice, in the atmosphere of water or ice planets, in water, and on certain asteroids (comets?). B would be finite. Distilled into oxidizer.

C would be found only in space, atmospheres of non water or ice planets, and on asteroids. C would be finite. Distilled into xenon gas.

Karbonite would remain findable anywhere, but in trace quantities.

All resources could be recoverable into cash by simply using the Recover Vessel function on a craft that contains those resources. Least expensive would be A, then B, then Karbonite, then C.

To avoid engine bloat I recommend no new engines using A, B, or C - reasoning that they are too complex or too basic for engine use. The only direct use would be in selling them for cash via Vessel Recovery, or converting them to fuel, oxide, monoprop, or xenon. Also, current mining parts and convertors would remain as the expansion pack could simply add code to expand them to mine, store, and convert the additional resources.

Thoughts? Who else is discussing these possibilities?

My ABC names:

A: Karbide or Karthane

B: Karbox

C: Karbonium

Call this Mod: Karbonite 4X (for the four resources: Karbonite, and whatever is named for A, B, and C).

Edited September 22, 2014 by inigma

[royying]

why the ocean have no hotspot?

it makes no point to use the oceanic extractor

[RoverDude]

why the ocean have no hotspot?

it makes no point to use the oceanic extractor

Because the entire ocean is full at an equal density. Splash down and you can begin extracting anywhere in the ocean for an exactly equal concentration of Karbonite.

[Floppster]

Because the entire ocean is full at an equal density. Splash down and you can begin extracting anywhere in the ocean for an exactly equal concentration of Karbonite.

What if the concentrations was different in lakes and other bodies not connected to the sea? Can that be made?

[RoverDude]

If you want to keep simple and then expand complex, then perhaps we keep Karbonite as the universal resource, but then develop an expansion that adds a single refinement layer to processing Karbonite as it is refined into A, B, and C in a 9:3:1 ratio. A, B, and C, could be whatever is decided to name those resources.

Karbonite would remain infinite, but 90% rarer, still locatable anywhere in land, sea, air, and space.

A would be found only in land and water, and would be finite. Distilled into liquid fuel and monopropellant.

B would be found only in ice, in the atmosphere of water or ice planets, in water, and on certain asteroids (comets?). B would be finite. Distilled into oxidizer.

C would be found only in space, atmospheres of non water or ice planets, and on asteroids. C would be finite. Distilled into xenon gas.

Karbonite would remain findable anywhere, but in trace quantities.

All resources could be recoverable into cash by simply using the Recover Vessel function on a craft that contains those resources. Least expensive would be A, then B, then Karbonite, then C.

To avoid engine bloat I recommend no new engines using A, B, or C - reasoning that they are too complex or too basic for engine use. The only direct use would be in selling them for cash via Vessel Recovery, or converting them to fuel, oxide, monoprop, or xenon. Also, current mining parts and convertors would remain as the expansion pack could simply add code to expand them to mine, store, and convert the additional resources.

Thoughts? Who else is discussing these possibilities?

My ABC names:

A: Karbide or Karthane

B: Karbox

C: Karbonium

Call this Mod: Karbonite 4X (for the four resources: Karbonite, and whatever is named for A, B, and C).

Start making it Karbonite is a lego and tinker toy kit - go have fun.

What if the concentrations was different in lakes and other bodies not connected to the sea? Can that be made?

Sure, doable, but it would be a new extension to ORSX as well as new maps, which affects memory pressure.

[Matzilla]

Hi Roverdude, I'm sorry in advance if this has been asked before, but I'm interested in creating an add-on for Karbonite that allows the bundled ORS drills and other reasonable parts to mine/extract water. This would be to integrate with TAC Life support, as once you have water its relatively easy to maintain a properly sustainable base. I have zero coding experience but I'm willing to give it a crack, but I need a hand to get started. The key points for proper integration would be how to add the resource extraction, and how to create a resource map.

[RoverDude]

Hi Roverdude, I'm sorry in advance if this has been asked before, but I'm interested in creating an add-on for Karbonite that allows the bundled ORS drills and other reasonable parts to mine/extract water. This would be to integrate with TAC Life support, as once you have water its relatively easy to maintain a properly sustainable base. I have zero coding experience but I'm willing to give it a crack, but I need a hand to get started. The key points for proper integration would be how to add the resource extraction, and how to create a resource map.

Hold up for the next release that moves to ORSX since it has native support for animated drills and other goodness, then just lift some code from MKS

(for clarity, you would just need configs, not code)

[inigma]

RoverDude I'd love to take a crack at coding as well the additional resource layer I mentioned. Just need to know if there a free way to do so, as it appears Visual Studio is a bit on the expensive side. I have some coding experience with php, java, but C# is new to me, but is a challenge I can surmount. I just need to know if there is anything specific I need to get started working with karbonite code - specifically what is your setup, what do you use, and what exactly would I be importing and modifying in my own branch? I guess I'm just looking for a basic how-to guide to get started and setup. I read some of the threads out there, but I'd like to know what you're using yourself and what you are opening up on your end.

[marce]

RoverDude I'd love to take a crack at coding as well the additional resource layer I mentioned. Just need to know if there a free way to do so, as it appears Visual Studio is a bit on the expensive side. I have some coding experience with php, java, but C# is new to me, but is a challenge I can surmount. I just need to know if there is anything specific I need to get started working with karbonite code - specifically what is your setup, what do you use, and what exactly would I be importing and modifying in my own branch? I guess I'm just looking for a basic how-to guide to get started and setup. I read some of the threads out there, but I'd like to know what you're using yourself and what you are opening up on your end.

VS Express is free and if you are feeling lucky you can try monodevelop.

C# won't be difficult for you since it's just a better Java most of the time and you apparently have enough will to do php

[inigma]

Thank you marce. I did find

which explained a bit about the setup.

I am curious though as to exactly where in the GitHub do I grab the right files start modifying Karbonite code in VSE? Do I open the .dll or Karbonite.v12.suo? I can't seem to open .suo. in VSE argh. Total noob. here.

In short, what files am I supposed to download from GitHub, where do they go, and how do I open the project in VSE, and start modifying code? I just need to crack this nut open and play.

[marce]

Thank you marce. I did find

which explained a bit about the setup.

I am curious though as to exactly where in the GitHub do I grab the right files start modifying Karbonite code in VSE? Do I open the .dll or Karbonite.v12.suo? I can't seem to open .suo. in VSE argh. Total noob. here.

In short, what files am I supposed to download from GitHub, where do they go, and how do I open the project in VSE, and start modifying code? I just need to crack this nut open and play.

VS can open suo's. Sometimes it has to convert them. if it can't do that you have to fix the file in an editor.

However, this is C# basic stuff and not directly KSP mod related.

Actually I had a brainfart. The solution files are the .sln ones, sorry.

Edited September 23, 2014 by marce
brainfart

[inigma]

I am still noob confused though on where in the program I should update a shader to turn the bubbles transparent. Which GitHub file should I be modifying?

[Akira_R]

I am still noob confused though on where in the program I should update a shader to turn the bubbles transparent. Which GitHub file should I be modifying?

I assume you are talking about the resource overlay bubbles? That is something internal to ORS, doesn't have anything to with karbonite itself. So you would have to go get the source code for ORS and change it there, and from what I have read making those textures transparent is allot harder than it sounds, FractalUK was saying it would take a significant amount of work to get it to do that. So good luck, if you can do it you are awesome!

Cheers

[Hevak]

So there is no more scan sat integration for this? Just updated all the mods the checker told me to. And I lost all the karbonite scans and there is no longer any option for it under scan sat.

[BigD145]

So there is no more scan sat integration for this? Just updated all the mods the checker told me to. And I lost all the karbonite scans and there is no longer any option for it under scan sat.

You need ScanSat 7r5

[RoverDude]

You need ScanSat 7r5

Correct. Latest version of SCANSat support this