[24.2] Karbonite Ongoing Dev and Discussion

[rabidninjawombat]

Ok, RoverDude, if you want to add this to the first post so that people know and there's no duplication of effort, I am working on...

• FL-T400 and FL-T800 sized 1.25m tanks
  
• Large radial drill
  
• Small radial drill
  
• 1.25m converter
  
• Small radial detector dish
  
• Karbonite jet engine (though I'd gladly let nil2work take this one over for continuity with the rocket engines)
  

Working on = has a sketch .

Awesome!

I wanted to complement you on the ventral drill you made... its bar none, the best looking mod part ive seen i think (Love the small touch with the cord going to the drill part. beautiful)

[Liowen]

You sure you have enough electricity or is it flowing to the extractor ?

8,000 in batteries and 6 RTG should be more than enough to run it I think

Edit: Found the issue (it was the .240 update that was in my backup directory not .24.2 oops LOL)

Edited July 27, 2014 by Liowen

[RoverDude]

It worked with the cloud mod and KDATA installed and now it just does nothing, the mods are both up to data as they are copied over from my main save. Even without the mods it does nothing, so the mods breaking it is irreverent.

Edit: To prove this I cleaned everything out of my secondary save and another 5 minute test (I figure 5 minutes of no time warp should net at least .01 in the tank).

http://i58.tinypic.com/33lzad1.png

Ok looking at what I see there - can you please pop open your debug log? Looks like the ORS issue. To fix this you do have to totally delete out the ORS folder from GameData before adding in Karbonite.

Ok, RoverDude, if you want to add this to the first post so that people know and there's no duplication of effort, I am working on...

• FL-T400 and FL-T800 sized 1.25m tanks
  
• Large radial drill
  
• Small radial drill
  
• 1.25m converter
  
• Small radial detector dish
  
• Karbonite jet engine (though I'd gladly let nil2work take this one over for continuity with the rocket engines)
  

Working on = has a sketch .

Excellent idea!

[jesjhoward]

I'm really hoping Psyper jumps into this. I really dig his extension of Kethane that uses water to make oxidizer as opposed to kethane/karbonite. Is that crazy? I also like the idea of changing the default 'water' into 'salinated water' that needs to be refined into drinking water... or even coolant. Maybe I'm just a glutton, lol.

[RoverDude]

I'm really hoping Psyper jumps into this. I really dig his extension of Kethane that uses water to make oxidizer as opposed to kethane/karbonite. Is that crazy? I also like the idea of changing the default 'water' into 'salinated water' that needs to be refined into drinking water... or even coolant. Maybe I'm just a glutton, lol.

What I would like to do is keep this super community friendly, and once we hit release, I want to keep a running list in the thread of everyone's mods to core Karbonite - that way we can add stuff like that Only rule of the game is that everything stays under the open license so we can all share.

[jesjhoward]

Couldn't agree more. As you've said many times, "Sharing is good" =] I may just have to learn some code and modeling for this. Love community efforts... makes things fun

[Liowen]

Ok looking at what I see there - can you please pop open your debug log? Looks like the ORS issue. To fix this you do have to totally delete out the ORS folder from GameData before adding in Karbonite.

I had the .24 version not the .24.2 version >< my bad LOL. It is all fixed now on my way to Minmus and a .30ish% area

[DuoDex]

Do you want me to try and integrate this into Extraplanetary Launchpads?

[mkrco]

I agree in that the Kethane mod is "limited". But one reason why I prefer Kethane over ORS (and why I don't use the harvester in MKS) is that I like the idea of having finite resources. In my current game for example I've seriously reduced the amount of resources available (especially Kethane) in order to force myself to really have to think about what I use the resources for. For example, once I run out of accessible Kethane on Kerbin I will no longer be able to use LFO rockets launched from Kerbin without dropping in fuel from elsewhere. I like the additional challenge. I know in current ORS, the resources are essentially infinite.

So I humbly request, that if at all possible you create an option in Karbonite for limited resources? Or maybe just reducing the extraction rates at fields that have already been mined? I'm guessing that this would not be a trivial thing to do with how ORS is structured. Would it even be possible?

[RoverDude]

I agree in that the Kethane mod is "limited". But one reason why I prefer Kethane over ORS (and why I don't use the harvester in MKS) is that I like the idea of having finite resources. In my current game for example I've seriously reduced the amount of resources available (especially Kethane) in order to force myself to really have to think about what I use the resources for. For example, once I run out of accessible Kethane on Kerbin I will no longer be able to use LFO rockets launched from Kerbin without dropping in fuel from elsewhere. I like the additional challenge. I know in current ORS, the resources are essentially infinite.

So I humbly request, that if at all possible you create an option in Karbonite for limited resources? Or maybe just reducing the extraction rates at fields that have already been mined? I'm guessing that this would not be a trivial thing to do with how ORS is structured. Would it even be possible?

My counterpoint would be this... how tough is it for one person (or even, say, a thousand Kerbals) to totally deplete a planet's natural resources?

Since ORS does not have fields, two ways I can think of to do it. One is to actually modify the PNGs on the fly (which reduces density), and the other would be to allow the resourceconfig to change over time. I'd welcome pull requests for either one

Do you want me to try and integrate this into Extraplanetary Launchpads?

Might as well Lift the ore fields and code from MKS - it already works there, so it should literally just be a copy and some harvesting parts for EL.

[Liowen]

Got my miner down right now on Minmus, and this is cool. Although some tweaking might be need as all I have is 6 RTG's and a probe core powering it, and I can harvest Karbonite and refine it into LF. If I do OX it starts to drain my system fast but here is a screen I took from where I landed. It is .36% or 3600 ppm if my math is right, or as I like to say "JACKPOT!".

[nismobg]

I agree in that the Kethane mod is "limited". But one reason why I prefer Kethane over ORS (and why I don't use the harvester in MKS) is that I like the idea of having finite resources. In my current game for example I've seriously reduced the amount of resources available (especially Kethane) in order to force myself to really have to think about what I use the resources for. For example, once I run out of accessible Kethane on Kerbin I will no longer be able to use LFO rockets launched from Kerbin without dropping in fuel from elsewhere. I like the additional challenge. I know in current ORS, the resources are essentially infinite.

So I humbly request, that if at all possible you create an option in Karbonite for limited resources? Or maybe just reducing the extraction rates at fields that have already been mined? I'm guessing that this would not be a trivial thing to do with how ORS is structured. Would it even be possible?

Or maybe IN some cases as this mod is super modular , Just single type resources can be set for various planets. That is if you like challenge. For example mine water from Lythe for Oxidizer and Karbonite from Tylo for Liquid Fuel, and so on. You can play with the resources and locations and converters as you like. Set them once and forget it.

Edited July 27, 2014 by nismobg

[mostlydave]

Do hot spots show up in the map view? And is there a set operational height for the scanners?

[RoverDude]

Do hot spots show up in the map view? And is there a set operational height for the scanners?

Still need to tweak those tbh, so for now probably not.

Side note - I am working on the first Karbonite engine.

I'm thinking lousy ISP, but high thrust, and much like the Aerospike, works equally well at both altitude and in vacuum. Which should make them an interesting choice sometimes.

[Wren]

liquid fuel, oxidizer, and monoprop can all be considered volatiles. Since there is a mass loss converting from karbonite to anything else we can consider it within the suspension of disbelief that this waste is comprised of non-volatile elements and from those we can assume we are able to extract Xenon. Also I don't like the idea of using the atmospheric scoop to extract xenon exclusively because the crafts that normally use xenon powered engines don't fair well in atmospheres let alone possess the ability to reach orbit on xenon power. Also if you are using nertea's near future propulsion you will find xenon and other electric engines don't work in atmospheres at all.

I think what we are going for here is not a 1 stop shop be all end all fuel solution. Having a craft dive in and get your xenon could then dock and fill an orbital station that could then resupply xenon powered craft. This would save the xenon craft from needing to have the probably heavy conversion and storage for the resources anyway.

I support not having xenon from kerbonite. If you want something that mines xenon from the ground, simply request a dedicated xenon extraction unit and either a whole new model or a config for existing drills. That's the beauty of having this open.

Still need to tweak those tbh, so for now probably not.

Side note - I am working on the first Karbonite engine.

I'm thinking lousy ISP, but high thrust, and much like the Aerospike, works equally well at both altitude and in vacuum. Which should make them an interesting choice sometimes.

I think that is an excellent choice. So the engine is useful only in certain situations and applications, and not the easy button.

Edited July 27, 2014 by Wren

[nismobg]

Still need to tweak those tbh, so for now probably not.

Side note - I am working on the first Karbonite engine.

I'm thinking lousy ISP, but high thrust, and much like the Aerospike, works equally well at both altitude and in vacuum. Which should make them an interesting choice sometimes.

Slow but steady !!! I like that. maybe for moving heavy loads around close distances. Or hovering on planetary surfaces ! The workhorse needed by every Karbonite Explorer

[mostlydave]

Still need to tweak those tbh, so for now probably not.

Side note - I am working on the first Karbonite engine.

I'm thinking lousy ISP, but high thrust, and much like the Aerospike, works equally well at both altitude and in vacuum. Which should make them an interesting choice sometimes.

If hotspots don't show up on the map, how do you find the kerbonite? I'm sure I'm misunderstanding something, I couldn't seem to locate resources in mks either.

[Liowen]

I had a crazy thought about connecting up 2 drills via an expando tube connected to collection tank and refiner. Would this, in theory, double the amount harvested if there was enough power to run them both? I am sure there are other factors in there as that would need to be sorted to make it work, but I figure I would toss that out there since I was watching my little driller go to town on Minmus. I already have ideas I want to try for tomorrow to refine its design as well.

For now though...pointless glamor shot!

[Liowen]

If hotspots don't show up on the map, how do you find the kerbonite? I'm sure I'm misunderstanding something, I couldn't seem to locate resources in mks either.

If you right click on the antenna, or supplied detector, it will say Xppm or x%, the higher the number the more Karbonite you will find. Percents are higher than the numbered values (using mine as an example I found a sight on Minmus with .36% or 3,600 ppm where as just a bit further east there was an area of 500ppm). Hopefully that is as clear as mud .

[nismobg]

If hotspots don't show up on the map, how do you find the kerbonite? I'm sure I'm misunderstanding something, I couldn't seem to locate resources in mks either.

Right now you can see all spots when you scan with ScanSat, go to settings(scansat) and choose Karbonite

[RoverDude]

If hotspots don't show up on the map, how do you find the kerbonite? I'm sure I'm misunderstanding something, I couldn't seem to locate resources in mks either.

If you right click on the antenna, or supplied detector, it will say Xppm or x%, the higher the number the more Karbonite you will find. Percents are higher than the numbered values (using mine as an example I found a sight on Minmus with .36% or 3,600 ppm where as just a bit further east there was an area of 500ppm). Hopefully that is as clear as mud .

What that guy said.

Also - yes, two drills = twice as fast harvesting.

And for everyone else, here's some fun stuff

And in action....

And yes... that's a full tank of Karbonite being turned into smoke and noise.

[nli2work]

video is private.

[JeffreyCor]

How involved would it be to change config files, or make a MM file to do so, to make Extraplanetary Launchpads use Karbonite instead of Kethane? I never even use Kethane itself any more and only have it installed due to other modes like EL needing it. Apart from that I'd switch to Karbonite in a heartbeat

[RoverDude]

Try now

[RoverDude]

How involved would it be to change config files, or make a MM file to do so, to make Extraplanetary Launchpads use Karbonite instead of Kethane? I never even use Kethane itself any more and only have it installed due to other modes like EL needing it. Apart from that I'd switch to Karbonite in a heartbeat

Not sure - I vaguely recall something where the installation of Kethane was required to make things have a rocketparts cost, but I could be totally wrong. I'd ask in the EL thread. If you're lucky, it's just as easy as making an alternate source for ore (MKS does that, steal my configs and such).