[24.2] Karbonite Ongoing Dev and Discussion

[RoverDude]

I apologize ahead of time for my long-winded response.

<snip>

In essence, I think that finite resources, and especially resources that are only available on certain planets is a perfectly reasonable state of affairs for KSP. A balance must be struck between fun and realism, but that balance is much further away from realism right now than most people realize with respect to mods like MKS, Kethane, or EL (all of which I use and love).

Anyways, I really appreciate all the effort you guys go through to make these mods. And I have a feeling that with ORS you'd have a hard time implementing finite resources because ORS is just not structured for it with those PNGs. But, if you happen to think of an easy way to implement something like that I know I would be very appreciative.

And I apologize again for my overly lengthy response.

P.S. I know that many people believe that the water on the Moon is from cometary impacts, but I think now-a-days most planetary scientists would agree that the solar wind theory fits the measurements better.

Thanks for the info! I really do appreciate it. There are two choices for ORS: One is to dynamically change the PNGs (which I need to fiddle with given Arrowstar's work anyway). The other is to dynamically change concentrations, which would likely involve a fork of ORS (which I am not opposed to - just not yet!).

i dont find the 1,25m in techtree

Do u ever sleep?

Career or sandbox? Four hours btw.

Yep, I like the idea of having certain resources be so rare on certain planets that it'd be more efficient to ship them in from other places.

Doable.

I don't see anything of anything.

http://i.imgur.com/nXMICdw.jpg

And I take it this isn't normal?

Nope - but I see you have texture replacer, it causes grief with ORS sometimes. Got anything in your logs? Also did you try a new ship? Use the new antenna not that old one, that's being deprecated. Welcome to alpha software

[erbmur]

Nope - but I see you have texture replacer, it causes grief with ORS sometimes. Got anything in your logs? Also did you try a new ship? Use the new antenna not that old one, that's being deprecated. Welcome to alpha software

New antenna seems to do the charm. No multi-buttons. Now to find the stuff!

[enneract]

I'm getting that huge menu without TextureReplacer, btw.

What new antenna?

[Mutifex]

So.. I've been playing KSP for quite a while now and since I tend to mod very heavily, I have spent a lot of time wandering the mod development and release threads here on the forums. In all that time though, I never felt the need to register and/or post. Until now.

Essentially I registered to add my voice to the support of this project. Even in its early state, it has now replaced kethane for me. I have not felt that kethane has really been going anywhere for a long time and the speed at which Karbonite is coming together as a functional entity suggests to me that the challenge of resources in KSP needs to be something a little more collaborative and more open.

Now all we need is if Extraplanetary Launchpads could release a version not tied to kethane for any of its fuctionality... or an open-source EL project?

Anyway, congrats to all involved in getting this going so fast. Keep up the amazing work.

[enneract]

I'm actually getting console spam from ORS...

UnityException: Texture 'UmbraSpaceIndustries/Karbonite/ORS/Kerbin_Karbonite' is not readable, the texture memory can not be accessed from scripts. You can make the texture readable in the Texture Import Settings.

This is on 64-bit linux.

[Dragonchampion]

Is there any way you can make Karbonite be able to be extracted into TAC Water and Air? So that people don't have to hunt for a "perfect" spot. Also, if I knew anything about coding and could do anything but copy models over, I would love to help. Unfortunately I'm absolutely worthless and can just ..... about mods I like. Anyways, I do have a few ideas, and since they have already been done in other mods, all I'd have to do for the code is to modify them for use with Karbonite, if you like.

1. Radial Karbonite Tanks. Preferably both the long thin ones like the TAC Hexcans, AND a small one like those tiny circular monopropellant tanks. The tiny ones would be for the smaller extraction rovers.

2. For the love of god make Karbonite like raw gold or something, worth more than Fuel or other stuff it converts into, for people wanting money. I have investegated the config files and can't seem to find the code that controls value, but wouldn't something that can literally be converted into almost any fuel type on Kerbin be worth its weight in gold? If we had something like that, it'd solve the energy crisis!

3. Karbonite Electric Reactors. 1.25, 2.5, and 3.75 sizes preferably.

4. KARBONITE SOLAR PANELS! Greenish, more efficient solar panels that produce heat like in Interstellar, preferably compatible.

5. A stationary, powerful drill addon building for MKS. This drill would be used for permanent MKS bases, and thus wouldn't need to be mobile or anything.

6. A Trailer! Seriously, with the time and power behind that Kethane Trailer, it got a LOT of interest into it. It's actually what I use to introduce my friends to KSP modding.

7. Fuel Pipes. Obviously this would fall under KAS, but since KAS integration isn't an option right now, it'd be good, I think, to have something similar to their fuel pipes.

8. TAC and ScanSat integration. This is required before I can even think of downloading it... I use TAC and SCANSat a lot.

Edited July 27, 2014 by Dragonchampion

[RoverDude]

I'm actually getting console spam from ORS...

UnityException: Texture 'UmbraSpaceIndustries/Karbonite/ORS/Kerbin_Karbonite' is not readable, the texture memory can not be accessed from scripts. You can make the texture readable in the Texture Import Settings.

This is on 64-bit linux.

I'm getting that huge menu without TextureReplacer, btw.

What new antenna?

Make sure you are on the latest version, it's under science. What huge menu? And you are getting ORS spam without texture replacer?

So.. I've been playing KSP for quite a while now and since I tend to mod very heavily, I have spent a lot of time wandering the mod development and release threads here on the forums. In all that time though, I never felt the need to register and/or post. Until now.

Essentially I registered to add my voice to the support of this project. Even in its early state, it has now replaced kethane for me. I have not felt that kethane has really been going anywhere for a long time and the speed at which Karbonite is coming together as a functional entity suggests to me that the challenge of resources in KSP needs to be something a little more collaborative and more open.

Now all we need is if Extraplanetary Launchpads could release a version not tied to kethane for any of its fuctionality... or an open-source EL project?

Anyway, congrats to all involved in getting this going so fast. Keep up the amazing work.

Actually I think the EL license is pretty darn permissive. The rub currently is a part of EL only works if Kethane is present (the costing bit). So hopefully it lands with optional support for both, since the harvesting bit can be handled externally. And thanks for the support I totally expect to lose a few users of my mods, but then this was never about how many people I can get to use my stuff (or.. ahem... tracking how many people use my stuff). It's about my own personal enjoyment, and the fact that other folks enjoy it too is icing on the cake.

[Nowater]

Career, i think they come later....

[protoz]

I can't see Karbonite hotspots, unless theres none on Kerbin, also the bigmap in scansatt isn't showing anything. https://www.dropbox.com/s/9wjkfkryng7hgd8/no%20karbonite.png

That should show ore hotspots on the big map as they are visible on your screen, all hotspots are visible on screen except karbonite and none of the hotspots are visible on scansat's map.

Im using .242 KSP .04 karbonite Scansat w. karbonite support, I did clean installs on ORS and Karbonite folders when upgrade versions.

Edit: It seems everything except karbonite is working on the big map, also i can't see karbonite's hotspots on anything. https://www.dropbox.com/s/r7p55r4dqrtyjew/no%20karbonite1.png

Is there karbonite near the launchpad? Because it seems like my scansat is only scanning where i'm located, its not taken into the fact that i've had 40% of kerbin scanned in previous versions.

Edited July 27, 2014 by protoz

[RoverDude]

Is there any way you can make Karbonite be able to be extracted into TAC Water and Air? So that people don't have to hunt for a "perfect" spot. Also, if I knew anything about coding and could do anything but copy models over, I would love to help. Unfortunately I'm absolutely worthless and can just ..... about mods I like. Anyways, I do have a few ideas, and since they have already been done in other mods, all I'd have to do for the code is to modify them for use with Karbonite, if you like.

1. Radial Karbonite Tanks. Preferably both the long thin ones like the TAC Hexcans, AND a small one like those tiny circular monopropellant tanks. The tiny ones would be for the smaller extraction rovers.

2. For the love of god make Karbonite like raw gold or something, worth more than Fuel or other stuff it converts into, for people wanting money. I have investegated the config files and can't seem to find the code that controls value, but wouldn't something that can literally be converted into almost any fuel type on Kerbin be worth its weight in gold? If we had something like that, it'd solve the energy crisis!

3. Karbonite Electric Reactors. 1.25, 2.5, and 3.75 sizes preferably.

4. KARBONITE SOLAR PANELS! Greenish, more efficient solar panels that produce heat like in Interstellar, preferably compatible.

5. A stationary, powerful drill addon building for MKS. This drill would be used for permanent MKS bases, and thus wouldn't need to be mobile or anything.

6. A Trailer! Seriously, with the time and power behind that Kethane Trailer, it got a LOT of interest into it. It's actually what I use to introduce my friends to KSP modding.

7. Fuel Pipes. Obviously this would fall under KAS, but since KAS integration isn't an option right now, it'd be good, I think, to have something similar to their fuel pipes.

1. I think these are in the works already.

2. You can just change the Cost = in the cfg file (or add it). Go crazy!

3. On the wish list

4. Not sure if this one makes sense - plus adds in a heat mechanism, and too much overlap with what is already out there and permissively licensed (i.e. KSP-I)

5. We have one It's called the Harvester. But it does need Karbonite support.

6. I would kill if someone from the community could take on this one, because I am lousy at it. We have enough bits.

7. Use an ARM Klaw - works a treat. A nice addon would be a small resized one, kinda like a mini ExpandOTube from MKS. Feel free to borrow any of my stuff to make it happen. I may be tempted once I get Hollow Asteroids caught up.

[enneract]

Make sure you are on the latest version, it's under science. What huge menu? And you are getting ORS spam without texture replacer?

Using 0.0.4. The huge number of right-click options on stock antennas. New antenna = Karbonite Detection Array?

Yep, looks like no spam without TR. Needs exclusions, I guess?

That being said, I can't figure out how to get any hotspots to show up with any detector. I'm not sure what altitude I should be at, but at 100-700km I never see anything, even when the 'karbonite abundance' figure changes. In addition, I really don't see a difference with the scansat resource overlay enabled.

Actually I think the EL license is pretty darn permissive. The rub currently is a part of EL only works if Kethane is present (the costing bit). So hopefully it lands with optional support for both, since the harvesting bit can be handled externally. And thanks for the support I totally expect to lose a few users of my mods, but then this was never about how many people I can get to use my stuff (or.. ahem... tracking how many people use my stuff). It's about my own personal enjoyment, and the fact that other folks enjoy it too is icing on the cake.

The most recent change to EL was removing some of the hardcoded exceptions for Kethane, notably, resources are not free in career without kethane installed.

[RoverDude]

I can't see Karbonite hotspots, unless theres none on Kerbin, also the bigmap in scansatt isn't showing anything. https://www.dropbox.com/s/9wjkfkryng7hgd8/no%20karbonite.png

That should show ore hotspots on the big map as they are visible on your screen, all hotspots are visible on screen except karbonite and none of the hotspots are visible on scansat's map.

Im using .242 KSP .04 karbonite Scansat w. karbonite support, I did clean installs on ORS and Karbonite folders when upgrade versions.

That's more an issue of me needing to work on thresholds - can you extract? Even the launchpad has some trace amounts

Using 0.0.4. The huge number of right-click options on stock antennas. New antenna = Karbonite Detection Array?

Yep, looks like no spam without TR. Needs exclusions, I guess?

That being said, I can't figure out how to get any hotspots to show up with any detector. I'm not sure what altitude I should be at, but at 100-700km I never see anything, even when the 'karbonite abundance' figure changes. In addition, I really don't see a difference with the scansat resource overlay enabled.

The most recent change to EL was removing some of the hardcoded exceptions for Kethane, notably, resources are not free in career without kethane installed.

Yes, that's the new antenna. Stock integration will be deprecated as it's a bit confusing. See above RE hotspots - I need to adjust it, but resources are there. And good news on EL!

[Mutifex]

Actually I think the EL license is pretty darn permissive. The rub currently is a part of EL only works if Kethane is present (the costing bit). So hopefully it lands with optional support for both, since the harvesting bit can be handled externally. And thanks for the support I totally expect to lose a few users of my mods, but then this was never about how many people I can get to use my stuff (or.. ahem... tracking how many people use my stuff). It's about my own personal enjoyment, and the fact that other folks enjoy it too is icing on the cake.

Yeah its that reliance on kethane that causes my EL problems. For the moment I've uninstalled them both. I like EL but I can easily play around it. Ideally I'd like to just see EL unhitched from kethane, which may even be a possibility since there is now an alternative.

I get where you are coming from with regards to motivation. Being a hack programmer I've modded a few things in the past, often things that forced mods i liked to integrate, but yeah it was really for my own enjoyment, both in the modding process and in the end result gameplay. Occasionally other people got to benefit from it too which is a bonus. Meanwhile, I wouldn't worry too much about the usage of your mods if this continues on track. Plenty of people out there use KSPI and mods that further develop ORS are more than likely to be supported by its audience if the implementation is good. I know it is a draw for me.

[protoz]

That's more an issue of me needing to work on thresholds - can you extract? Even the launchpad has some trace amounts

Yes, that's the new antenna. Stock integration will be deprecated as it's a bit confusing. See above RE hotspots - I need to adjust it, but resources are there. And good news on EL!

I can extract and i can see the trace amounts. https://www.dropbox.com/s/jdu81l9xnubuqge/karbonite3.png I just can't see the hotspots or and neither can scansat map.

[RoverDude]

I can extract and i can see the trace amounts. https://www.dropbox.com/s/jdu81l9xnubuqge/karbonite3.png I just can't see the hotspots or and neither can scansat map.

Known issue - all me, unless someone wants to volunteer and fiddle with the threshold amounts until we get the right mix of hotspots (versus horrible lag) and toss a pull request.

[enneract]

Extration works when drill isn't deployed.

[Dragonchampion]

I'd love to if I knew what I was doing.

EDIT: Doing some investigating I have checked the code of Kethane and found this:

KethaneResource
{
  Resource = Kethane
  ColorFull = 0.08235294, 0.6901961, 0.1019608
  ColorEmpty = 0.1858824, 0.3105883, 0.1929412
  Generator
  {
    name = LegacyResourceGenerator
    MinRadius = 7.29
    MaxRadius = 16.2
    MinQuantity = 10000
    MaxQuantity = 500000
    MinVertices = 20
    MaxVertices = 50
    RadiusVariance = 0.45
    DepositCount = 17
    NumberOfTries = 30
    Body
    {
      name = Kerbin
      MinRadius = 4.05
      DepositCount = 12
    }
    Body
    {
      name = Mun
      DepositCount = 27
    }
    Body
    {
      name = Minmus
      MaxRadius = 12.96
    }
    Body
    {
      name = Sun
      DepositCount = 0
    }
    Body
    {
      name = Jool
      DepositCount = 0
    }
  }
}

So, if you want the same distribution as Kethane, then I would say put that into the /Karbonite/Resources.cfg file.

Edited July 27, 2014 by Dragonchampion

[RoverDude]

I'd love to if I knew what I was doing.

EDIT: Doing some investigating I have checked the code of Kethane and found this:

KethaneResource
{
  Resource = Kethane
  ColorFull = 0.08235294, 0.6901961, 0.1019608
  ColorEmpty = 0.1858824, 0.3105883, 0.1929412
  Generator
  {
    name = LegacyResourceGenerator
    MinRadius = 7.29
    MaxRadius = 16.2
    MinQuantity = 10000
    MaxQuantity = 500000
    MinVertices = 20
    MaxVertices = 50
    RadiusVariance = 0.45
    DepositCount = 17
    NumberOfTries = 30
    Body
    {
      name = Kerbin
      MinRadius = 4.05
      DepositCount = 12
    }
    Body
    {
      name = Mun
      DepositCount = 27
    }
    Body
    {
      name = Minmus
      MaxRadius = 12.96
    }
    Body
    {
      name = Sun
      DepositCount = 0
    }
    Body
    {
      name = Jool
      DepositCount = 0
    }
  }
}

So, if you want the same distribution as Kethane, then I would say put that into the /Karbonite/Resources.cfg file.

Problem is, that's a Kethane config not an ORS config The thresholds are more like this:

PLANETARY_RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
    name = Karbonite
    celestialBodyName = Kerbin
    resourceName = Karbonite
    mapUrl = UmbraSpaceIndustries/Karbonite/ORS/Kerbin_Karbonite
    resourceScale = LOG_SCALE
    scaleFactor =1.03
    scaleMultiplier = 8
    displayTexture = UmbraSpaceIndustries/Karbonite/ORS/KarbonitePoint
    displayThreshold = 0.005
}

[Carcharhinidae]

So.. I've been playing KSP for quite a while now and since I tend to mod very heavily, I have spent a lot of time wandering the mod development and release threads here on the forums. In all that time though, I never felt the need to register and/or post. Until now.

Essentially I registered to add my voice to the support of this project. Even in its early state, it has now replaced kethane for me. I have not felt that kethane has really been going anywhere for a long time and the speed at which Karbonite is coming together as a functional entity suggests to me that the challenge of resources in KSP needs to be something a little more collaborative and more open.

Now all we need is if Extraplanetary Launchpads could release a version not tied to kethane for any of its fuctionality... or an open-source EL project?

Anyway, congrats to all involved in getting this going so fast. Keep up the amazing work.

check the OP's sig, his MKS/OKS should soon have a 'hopefully' balanced optional file that adds the ability to make rocketparts to a few MKS/OKS modules. I'm actually looking or people to test it, since I took much of EL's resource rates in the conversion (so I need to know if a medium/large colony can possibly support the metal demands my processes are making.)

see my relevant post there.

back onto track. I'll upgrade to 24.2 later today, hopefully. and though I'll need to get rid of KAS (and start a new save because of that, I suspect). it might be a little time before I can offer any good funding/sciency contributions to this.

once I'm back from holiday in august though (leaving tuesday). I'll start working on those other forms of karbonite that I was thinking about.

[Targa]

Extration works when drill isn't deployed.

Solution: Open Ventral_Extractor_Lg.cfg and add the following line at the bottom (before the Module code), right below Max Temp = 2900.

childStageOffset = 1

[Dragonchampion]

Problem is, that's a Kethane config not an ORS config The thresholds are more like this:

PLANETARY_RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
    name = Karbonite
    celestialBodyName = Kerbin
    resourceName = Karbonite
    mapUrl = UmbraSpaceIndustries/Karbonite/ORS/Kerbin_Karbonite
    resourceScale = LOG_SCALE
    scaleFactor =1.03
    scaleMultiplier = 8
    displayTexture = UmbraSpaceIndustries/Karbonite/ORS/KarbonitePoint
    displayThreshold = 0.005
}

So, the question is there, what is the average? Can you perhaps give me an example of a distribution of current things such as Substrate? Because Substrate was roughly 50% of the Kethane that I saw in the world. The simple thing to do would be to merely double the threshold from Substrate.

[Carcharhinidae]

So, the question is there, what is the average? Can you perhaps give me an example of a distribution of current things such as Substrate? Because Substrate was roughly 50% of the Kethane that I saw in the world. The simple thing to do would be to merely double the threshold from Substrate.

if you were using the kethane deposits it wouldn't matter. as the amounts in ORS and kethane have very little to do with one another. kethane has a cap on the maximum amount you can pull from a given field. ORS purely deals with extraction speeds. and the point is that he probably knows the average (ish). the point is getting 'enough' spikes to show so every rich area will have a hotspot, but not so much that a computer starts lagging from having to display all the orbs.

[Dragonchampion]

if you were using the kethane deposits it wouldn't matter. as the amounts in ORS and kethane have very little to do with one another. kethane has a cap on the maximum amount you can pull from a given field. ORS purely deals with extraction speeds. and the point is that he probably knows the average (ish). the point is getting 'enough' spikes to show so every rich area will have a hotspot, but not so much that a computer starts lagging from having to display all the orbs.

Well, I wouldn't be a good one for this task then. Superpowered gaming comp you see. So I wouldn't be a good example. ^^;

But perhaps we could double, or even triple the current amounts?

[The Pink Ranger]

check the OP's sig, his MKS/OKS should soon have a 'hopefully' balanced optional file that adds the ability to make rocketparts to a few MKS/OKS modules. I'm actually looking or people to test it, since I took much of EL's resource rates in the conversion (so I need to know if a medium/large colony can possibly support the metal demands my processes are making.)

see my relevant post there.

back onto track. I'll upgrade to 24.2 later today, hopefully. and though I'll need to get rid of KAS (and start a new save because of that, I suspect). it might be a little time before I can offer any good funding/sciency contributions to this.

once I'm back from holiday in august though (leaving tuesday). I'll start working on those other forms of karbonite that I was thinking about.

Use Whaaw's fixed DLLs. They fix all issues in the 32 bit windows version of 24.2. The only people having problems are using the 64 bit windows version. Also 64 bit linux works fine apparently.

[Mutifex]

check the OP's sig, his MKS/OKS should soon have a 'hopefully' balanced optional file that adds the ability to make rocketparts to a few MKS/OKS modules. I'm actually looking or people to test it, since I took much of EL's resource rates in the conversion (so I need to know if a medium/large colony can possibly support the metal demands my processes are making.)

see my relevant post there.

back onto track. I'll upgrade to 24.2 later today, hopefully. and though I'll need to get rid of KAS (and start a new save because of that, I suspect). it might be a little time before I can offer any good funding/sciency contributions to this.

once I'm back from holiday in august though (leaving tuesday). I'll start working on those other forms of karbonite that I was thinking about.

Excellent. I recently installed MKS/OKS, before noticing Karbonite. If the fix to get EL back in my install is already on the way then I am a happy nerd. I'm not quite at the building off-world infrastructure stage in my new career save yet but once I finish some science farming and get there I will check that out for sure.