Going To Moho--The Jedi Master 2000 Post Special

[The Jedi Master]

Posting, posting, internet, yay... Wait, I have 2,010 posts? This calls for a celebration. But how? Hmmm...

Moho has always hated me. It despises me with the fervor and fanaticism that Jeb loves a solid rocket booster. If it detects that I am launching a new vessel with the intention of visiting it, it will hire the laws of physics to destroy it before it even gets to the gravity turn. I'm not sure what I did to make it angry. Maybe it is my continual refusal to accept that Eve SSTOs are impossible? I don't know.

But you know what? Moho can [censored by Kerbal Concerned Parents Society] off and leave me alone. I am going to Moho in celebration of making it to 2k posts. It will be so awesome, the Kraken herself will bow to me. I choose to go to Moho in this update, not because it is easy, but because it is hard! And the best part? I'll post it all here for you to view and marvel!

Now, you may remember I tried this with Tylo. That went well for a while, but it kind of tapered off after a few failures. So, I expect you to hold me to this new goal, so that I actual get it done. Give me tips and ideas, or even .craft files if you are so inclined. Give me encouragement when I hit a snag. Help me not fall prone to what I call KSP ADD (the condition of never being able to complete a project in KSP because something new and shiny comes up--this applies in many areas of my life, actually...).

Oh, and one more thing. If you visit Moho in the near future, tell it where it can stick its inclined orbit and high Delta V costs for me, will you?

Gaze, marvel and cheer me on!

Edited July 26, 2014 by The Jedi Master
Did not know the p word was one of the censored words here

[Tw1]

Moho is a hard little rock. Good luck, don't worry about overbuilding with this one.

[The Jedi Master]

Moho is a hard little rock. Good luck, don't worry about overbuilding with this one.

Yeah, I'll have to call my greatest SLS skills to bear and learn to asparagus.

[SkyRender]

Originally designed to be an Eeloo craft by the name of Eeloosive, the Mohotivated was slightly altered to be a one-way trip out to Moho that can land on the surface with a fair margin of error. I've conveniently included the delta-V counts on the parts via Kerbal Engineer Redux, just in case you want to plan that sort of thing instead of tackling this blind. Good luck!

[problemecium]

Not big enough. I recommend orbital construction.

[Pecan]

Bob says there's a room booked for you and they'll have the tea ready when you get there:

[panzerknoef]

Well, the craft you need is ofcourse gonna depend on what you want to do with it, are you planning to take kerbals back and forth? (In that case i can't help you, not even close) but if you want to start with rover exploration then i have a suitable craft somewhere, i bet it's even on these forums but where? It'll take some searching...

[MidwestB]

I love building ships in orbit, even developed a portable asparagus platform that fuel tanks could be docked to so the entire thing didn't have to be sent in one piece.

Got to Moho and back first try a few versions ago, but fuel was scarce on the return trip...

[Moar Boosters]

I recommend you try it apollo style.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/76203-Moho-Apollo-Style/page2

[Redshift OTF]

I've built around 5 different ships to go to Moho, each with varying degrees of success. If you are sending 1 Kerbal to land on the surface of Moho and bring him back then you want to build your design around the lightest functional lander you can come up with, (with a bit of fuel headroom to lessen Murhpy's law). That way the rest of your design will be much easier to implement. Sorry, sounds obvious, but it is the most important step.

[Landge]

Moho is the hardest planet to reach and perhaps the third hardest to return from IMHO. Without using MechJeb or Kerbal Engineer, I sent probes loaded with SCANsat & Kethane scanners just to see if I could reach that hellhole. The first wound up being a flyby, running out of fuel during the 15min capture burn IIRC. The second one ran out just as I achieved a near polar orbit but it was close enough!

For my kerbal crewed ship I sent and early build of my KOKOPELI mothership that included an orbital habitat & science lab. The bad part of that design was the transfer stage that had extra LV-Ns that got discarded in flight. Instead I should have used the ones on the orbiter to save on mass. I sent ships equipped with Kethane tanks and converters, along with Kerbal Attachment System for backup just incase I wasn't able to send enough fuel there for the return trip back to Kerbin.

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Edited July 26, 2014 by Landge

[The Jedi Master]

Landge, that is one of the most awesome things I've ever seen in KSP.

[Landge]

Thanks and good luck to you! I'm looking forward to see how your voyage to Moho turns out. It always amazes me how different all the ship designs people can come up with.

This is my improved KOKOPELI that was redesigned in 0.23. I added a docking port to the dorsal engine nacelle where I can dock my BEAGLE VTOL rover.

[magnemoe]

http://www.skyrender.net/lp2/ksp/mohotivated.jpg

Originally designed to be an Eeloo craft by the name of Eeloosive, the Mohotivated was slightly altered to be a one-way trip out to Moho that can land on the surface with a fair margin of error. I've conveniently included the delta-V counts on the parts via Kerbal Engineer Redux, just in case you want to plan that sort of thing instead of tackling this blind. Good luck!

I would add some drop tanks on the transfer stage, the braking stage for Eeloo is brutal, I have had 4km/s braking but 3 km/s is more normal.

Moho is in an elliptical orbit in a 7 degree plane difference, arriving at Pe while the planes align will be far cheaper, the worst is if you are arriving close to Moho solar Ap but not on.

Currently setting up an Moho mission, 1900 m/s transfer burn, 1100 m/s plane change and 3500 m/s braking. Can probably save some here as I will pass closer to Moho than during the 3 node setup, this is a manned mission so I need 2.5-3 km/s for return too, in short I look at 9-10 km/s.

Something like this.

Tower is a ketane mapper who will also do orbital science.

Then lander with science and goo containers and landing gear on droptanks.

Crew living quarter, then an heavy orbital tug who will also work as engine module. it carries life support goo and material labs for orbital science and two lifeboats, an opperation if return tip is to expensive is to transfer crew to lifeboats dump the lander and living quarter to save weight.

Two drop tanks and an bottom orbital tug who will help with the first 1000 m/s of the transfer burn, it will then transfer most fuel to the bottom drop tank and return to LKO.

I will however have to pass the first transfer window, I do not want to launch this thing fueled and the first ketane miner will not be back in LKO in 7 days.

The ship without the pusher tug is 80 ton.

Lander with the expensive science gear can be landed back at KSC, tugs and living quarter can be reused.

[allmhuran]

If you slingshot off Eve once you can get to Moho for just 150-200 extra dV. Sling off Eve twice and you can get there for less than 50 additional dV, depending on your intercept timing. Might make things somewhat easier, you end up arriving at Moho for a total of about 1200 m/s max, and your insertion burn is cheaper because you're coming down from Eve, not Kerbin.

[magnemoe]

If you slingshot off Eve once you can get to Moho for just 150-200 extra dV. Sling off Eve twice and you can get there for less than 50 additional dV, depending on your intercept timing. Might make things somewhat easier, you end up arriving at Moho for a total of about 1200 m/s max, and your insertion burn is cheaper because you're coming down from Eve, not Kerbin.

Problem is that you still have the braking burn who is not only half the cost, but also very depend on where you intercept Moho, yes if your only after a flyby Eve is nice.

Had Moho had an atmosphere it would just be a bit harder than Jool.

Still remember my first probe to Moho, 2 km/s fuel left, had an speed of 6 km/s relative to Moho.

[Renegrade]

Moho is definitely a nasty place.

Not much of interest, deep, deep in the system's gravity well, no moons (muns?)...

Still, it's a must-visit place in BTSM:

The magic of Destination Orbit Rendezvous makes everything possible!â„¢*

* - Void where prohibited. Not to be used by children under the age of 12. May cause allergic reactions and dockophobia.

[allmhuran]

Problem is that you still have the braking burn who is not only half the cost, but also very depend on where you intercept Moho, yes if your only after a flyby Eve is nice.

Had Moho had an atmosphere it would just be a bit harder than Jool. .

As I said, and you even quoted it:

and your insertion burn is cheaper because you're coming down from Eve, not Kerbin.

[The Jedi Master]

I'm working on the design of the lander and rover. Since Moho is essentially a big Mun surface-wise, I'll test it on the Mun. Will report back!

[Tw1]

This was my Moho vessel. It made use of hybrid ion engines, which had comparable ISP to nuclear, but where lighter. The back was the get-there bit, the middle was my clever little two stage rover lander thing, and the bit docked to the front would take the remaining fuel from the lander, and tow the capsule home.

My lander had been tested on the Mun, but barely had the TWR to land- Moho has slightly more gravity.

However, a sudden unplanned disassembly , and the fact that I'd launched into wrong the made it impossible to rendezvous with the return module, and still have enough Delta-V. Instead, I had to send this to recover the capsule:

Moho has some interesting rocks, but really, you go there for the view of the sun:

[technion]

Moho is the hardest planet to reach and perhaps the third hardest to return from IMHO. Without using MechJeb or Kerbal Engineer, I sent probes loaded with SCANsat & Kethane scanners just to see if I could reach that hellhole. The first wound up being a flyby, running out of fuel during the 15min capture burn IIRC.

Well played on the landing. With fuel that sparse, the precision to drop yourself near the old lander must have taken some work.

Regarding the 15 minute burn however, that's really the problem with Moho. Everyone talks about nuke's being the correct way to obtain so much dv - but at the speed you tend to go screaming past Moho's SOI, you either need a lot of nukes, or something with more thrust to run this well. The good news at least, is that it doesn't take much to get home due to aerobraking. One large grey tank and one LV-N on each side seems to manage it.

[merendel]

Regarding the 15 minute burn however, that's really the problem with Moho. Everyone talks about nuke's being the correct way to obtain so much dv - but at the speed you tend to go screaming past Moho's SOI, you either need a lot of nukes, or something with more thrust to run this well.

If your talking ion's I'd buy that but you'd need some seriously anemic TWR to not be able to slow down. I normaly hit the SOI at 3-4k orbital velocity. If I aimed for a very low pass that gives me around an hour or so to cross the SOI. If your ship cant bleed of 3kdV in an hour youve got seriously more patience than I do as your willing to accept a miniscule TWR. I recently designed a ship that took jeb to moho and back without useing nukes. Transfer and deceleration stages actualy used poodles of all things. Ship wasnt much more than a standard pod siting on a small fuel tank with a 909 on the other end by the time jeb got back but he was able to carry 3 goos and materials out there along with the other science packages.

[allmhuran]

but he was able to carry 3 goos and materials out there

Mmm, three goos.

(Simpsons reference)

[Landge]

Well played on the landing. With fuel that sparse, the precision to drop yourself near the old lander must have taken some work.

Regarding the 15 minute burn however, that's really the problem with Moho. Everyone talks about nuke's being the correct way to obtain so much dv - but at the speed you tend to go screaming past Moho's SOI, you either need a lot of nukes, or something with more thrust to run this well. The good news at least, is that it doesn't take much to get home due to aerobraking. One large grey tank and one LV-N on each side seems to manage it.

It was the 1st lander that had little margin of error. Just needed to settle down anywhere that had level terrain. The second lander had a full load of fuel. More than enough to zero in on the 1st lander, and with fuel to spare. Countless practiced landings at targets at Mun had prepared me for Moho. If I ever try Moho again I'll have to give the "By way of Eve" approach a try.

Edited July 28, 2014 by Landge

[NecroBones]

Are you planning on doing a one-way trip, or a round-trip?

You need to budget at least 4 km/s of dV for each direction (though returning does obviously have the option of aerobraking at Kerbin). Also, once in a nice low orbit, you need a minimum of about 1500 m/s dV for each direction of landing, and then re-orbiting.

The first time I went to Moho, I didn't understand any of this, so I did a successful landing and rendezvous with the transfer stage... barely, and without enough fuel for the return. I sent a rescue ship, picked up my guy, and then took all the remaining fuel. Even the rescue ship only had about 1% fuel remaining when it got back to Kerbin. It was nuts.

My second mission went much better:

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