Holy Grail of Mun Bases! STOCK ONLY

[Munarware]

The Kerbals wish to build a permanent city on the MUN and in order to do so they need an ever expandable system of modules. The kerbals want to feel secure and safe in this new city however, so there can be no wheels, fuel tanks, rocket motors or thrusters attached to their new homes, which may allow them to roll away or spontaneously explode during the long Munar nights, which are dark and full of errors.

Challenge: Create a mun base with at least 20 Hitchhiker modules using only stock parts and multiple launches.

Rules:

1. Permanent modules must have no RCS, Rocket Motors OR Wheels attached. (Hint: Separate rovers or with wheels or "Sky Cranes" are allowed as long as they can be detached from the permanent module)

2. Must be able to disassemble and relocate modules to anywhere on the MUN surface.

3. Must be infinitely expandable in all directions from any point on the base (radial expansions from a single point do not count).

4. All Hitchhiker modules must be accessible (boardable) from the exterior surface at some point without using RCS (ie: Ladders. I say "at some point" because if subsequent dockings prevent egress to the surface and back (and in some cases during my testing it has) that's ok, but you have to be able to get a kerbal in the thing at some point without using his RCS because it runs out and these things need to be accessible indefinitely. I figure if you have to undock another module to re-board then that's more plausible than a module just not being accessible to kerbals whose RCS has run out, as long as it's possible).

5. BONUS: Arrange hitchiker modules or provide corridors so that an imaginary Kerbal could internally travel through the base from one Hitchhiker Module to any other without travelling through a third hitchhiker module. (Basically the Hitchhiker modules cannot also be the sole connecting node to any part of the base)

The winner(s) will get an exclusive preview of my *.*craft files which meet all these requirements on 8/30/2014. I have several distinct modules so far and more on the way.

-*.*craft files and screenshots of finished base must be uploaded to win. There may be multiple winners. I will decide at my discretion if the submitted utility meets the requirements or not. A video of your hardware executing the entire process will also be considered proof.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Munarware
Adding Scoring Criteria and Offering Prize

[Munarware]

*Clarification*

-Must be infinitely expandable in all "cardinal" directions, not including "up".

-Corridors may be constructed out of the "Structural Fuselage", Inline Clamp-0-Tron, Hubmax Connector or Stackable Battery Bank (smaller sizes don't technically have a pass through port but these are passable as a "spacer" when using to construct corridors. Fuel tanks, Science Modules, Engine Bodies and Hitchhiker Modules do not count as corridors.

*-No remains of any decoupling bracket may remain on any permanent module. ALL forms of propulsion must be fully decoupled.

*-Expansions must be able to connect at more than one docking port, or rather in a circular or "Squarecular" fashion. This challenge will require mastery of sideways docking as well as multiple port and multi-directional docking maneuvers while on the surface of the moon. That is the point because I haven't seen it done by anyone else yet and I would dare say I have fairly and diligently looked.

The overall base does not have to be symmetrical, nor does it have to be connected in all directions at all points, and by my testing it cannot be, but it should be able to be expanded in all directions from any corner not just a central hub, and it should be internally navigable without going through a central hub to get to the other side. The key idea is you should be able to create an interconnected "Grid" structure and that's what I mean by "Holy Grail" or shall we call it a "Krail".

I know the corridor thing is a little "whatever" since you can't transfer crew internally without a mod anyway, but without resorting to that I'm just pretending to make corridors along a few guidelines because of my own OCD and I REALLY THINK THAT SHOULD BE IN THE STOCK GAME because the clamp-o-tron jr. mentions that it will only transfer "resources and not crew" which implies that the larger clamp-o-tron, indeed SHOULD be able to transfer crew, yet it does not. Anyway, blah blah, alpha in progress and whatever just saying, otherwise that is also why accessibility of the hithchhikers from the surface with no RCS is there. Because corridors don't actually work and OCD. The corridor thing also adds a level of complexity to the overall "Grid" structure mentioned above because you have to figure out how to make different types of modules out of different parts but which still line up and dock in two perpendicular directions. A grid structure is easier with a 4 way symmetrical module that you just line up indefinitely, but having corridors makes it much more tricky and I'm excited to show my own progress.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Munarware
Adding no decoupling brackets.

[Sirine]

How to win?

[Munarware]

Must upload craft files at the least. Screenshots will speed things along and a video would be great.

[Munarware]

And sorry this is my first try at anything on here so if anyone has other ideas about how to win I am open to that but basically you just need to demonstrate the capabilities listed in the rules.

[impyre]

Well, there's a number of ways to declare winners. You could make it a race by real-time (first to finish, or first three to finish), though that may really set back participation. You could make it a race by mission elapsed time at completion of objectives, with lower time being better. Or, instead of just saying "do all these things" you could say "do these two things to qualify, but these other things earn points" and then keep a leaderboard. The possibilities are numerous.

Example of the last option:

Complete base with 20 hitchhiker cans to qualify.

Earn points by:

1. Permanent modules must have no RCS, Rocket Motors OR Wheels attached. (Hint: Separate rovers or with wheels or "Sky Cranes" are allowed as long as they can be detached from the permanent module) 1000 points

2. Must be able to disassemble and relocate modules to anywhere on the MUN surface. 500 points (plus additional 2000 points if combined with number 1)

3. Must be infinitely expandable in all directions. 500 points

4. All Hitchhiker modules must be accessible (boardable) from the exterior surface at some point. 500 points (plus 1000 bonus if combined with number 3)

5. BONUS: Arrange hitchiker modules or provide corridors so that an imaginary Kerbal could internally travel through the base from one Hitchhiker Module to any other without travelling through a third hitchhiker module. (Basically the Hitchhiker modules cannot also be the sole connecting node to any part of the base) 2000 points

6. Time bonus: (30 - met days)*100 points (so basically, if you complete in 20 days, you get 1000 points... and in 15, 1500.

Edited July 29, 2014 by impyre

[Munarware]

Ok well then see above.

[Bilfr3d]

8/30/2014

Um.. even if that's mm/dd/yyyy.... we haven't actually reached that date yet. So where are you? Are you still on Earth??

[Munarware]

No I'm on Earth. That's when the challenge is over and the winners get to see MY goodies. Then a little while after that I will just post them for everyone to see.

I will have teasers before then too just so you know I'm serious.

[impyre]

Um.. even if that's mm/dd/yyyy.... we haven't actually reached that date yet. So where are you? Are you still on Earth??

That's the point... noone gets to see it yet.

[Munarware]

And thank you for your suggestion about scoring! You know I am still just going to send out the previews as the prize like I said, but just to make it interesting I will also do a leaderboard based on that exact system you proposed Thanks!

[EdFred]

Yeah, I met all the requirements except the no wheels - I had gear bays to move the modules into place. And I'm not going to go back and do it again. I had 30 some modules I sent to Mun - all done manually, no MJ'ing the landings.

You can view it here.

[Munarware]

I really like the way you used the clamp-o-tron sr. as the pivot point on your rover! That reminds me of those big agricultural sprinkling systems and you know those must work because they are everywhere. You wouldn't get the bonus but also I see you appreciate the structural fuselage as a corridor. Again however you see the elongated tube like a lot of the examples I've seen. Looking for more of a high density grid that is able to form a squaretubular network. Come on Ed, you've got nothing but time right?

On a side note, I have found landing on the Mun extremely easy compared to docking with my space station. Honestly I haven't even had time to download a mod, which is funny because it was seeing a space x mod that made me want to get this game in the first place, but for now, I haven't hit my limits with stock parts and I probably won't download a mod until I do, but I haven't even been to Minmus yet.

As for my space station, I'm getting to where I can intersect within 5 km no problem but even the rendezvous, approach and docking in orbit seems so much more time consuming than just hitting a spot on the Mun. I've gotten really lucky with my inclination a few times and encountered with an almost perfect orbit to fly right over my growing Mun city. Other times it's a simple inclination adjustment that's usually less than 20 m/s worth of a burn and then it's a simple retro burn right over my target until my retrograde indicator is pointing straight up. It almost seems not to matter from how high up I decide to start falling because the acceleration towards the Mun in freefall is super manageable with a minimum amount of fuel. I've landed some pretty huge modules within about 500 m of my city and even making some pretty big mistakes I easily compensated.

That said, my requirement for full decoupling of all propulsion could get to be kind of a debris problem, but so far I've decoupled my landing pods from my docking ports on an action item. I usually have multiple landing pods attached to my extremity docking ports so I just decouple them all at once with the throttle up and they fly off and crash a few hundred meters away leaving little if any trace debris. This may also become a problem as the base gets bigger because as I said above, I have been landing very close and it won't be long before I hit my city with a ballistic landing pod missile as the modules are extremely dense once placed. At that point solutions can be explored for the tanks which can be easily re-attached to a module that allows for a more controlled ballistic demolition or eventually a return and recovery operation but that's another challenge... which will occur because I recognize that the current debris situation, at least in my testing, isn't acceptable to most players on the scale of expansion I am aiming for.

This challenge is about the demonstration of concept though, and then, I will build a Mun city to rival the KSC itself! With a little highly skilled crane flying, I think this system could be adapted to build significantly in the UP direction as well...

Edited July 29, 2014 by Munarware

[Munarware]

OK so it's been a while, I've been extremely busy and I quickly learned what a laggy maggy my laptop can actually be after installing a few of my Mun Base modules, so I built a whole new desktop rig just for Kerbaling! It's awesome, and I will post some pics to my profile because I actually did not spend a ton of money and it works beautifully. But enough about that, I believe I promised some previews so here's your first installment:

"Behold, the MK2 Lander and Rover Pressurized Transportation Device (LARPTD). Developed to accomplish the tasks of both landing and roving long distances on the Mun, the MK2 LARPTD incorporates several unique features such as Bi-Directional Rockomax Thrust Motor Pods to aid in both landing and high speed emergency stability maneuvers. Heavy-duty landing legs, moderate ground clearance and an integrated roll protection system provides the resilience of a tumbleweed, while the "pretty balanced" RCS system, integrated lighting, and fully circular fuel crossfeed keeps the top generally pointed "up" in most conditions.

Refueling stations are in testing as just a small part of our Phaze 2 Munar Development Project, which focuses on reusability and waste management processes that will ultimately depend on the MK2 LARPTD. For now, it serves as primary transportation and was the very first successful piece of hardware developed by Munarware to endure on the Mun to this day. Stay tuned, and don't ask about the very first "unsuccessful" piece of hardware we launched because it's going to be a historical monument which we intend to distract people from the huge pile of discarded descent modules that is growing in a nearby crater. Hey craters are a pain in the ass anyway, right?

As you can also see, we used this vehicle to scout over 20 km from its landing position to find a nearly flat and level piece of Mun land for our Mun City, which makes docking and installing modules much easier. Also knowing that it's right at 4000 meters simplifies landings which are all done under manual control."

Edited August 27, 2014 by Munarware

[Jett_Quasar]

Check it out...

Mun City

All KSP images have been moved here.

JR

Edited September 28, 2015 by Jolly_Roger

[limitlessenergy]

Registered just to say... WOW.

I will be watching this thread closely... I want more modular type craft to download and put on my livestreams!

[GoSlash27]

I designed a system to do exactly this job. Not for this challenge, but because it seemed the best way to go for generic colonization.

I use Tylo 5.0SS rovers to descend to the surface with the hab modules as payload...

Traverse to the build site

and assemble the hab modules in place.

It's all modular. clockwise from lower left, a pair of hab modules with a docked rover, a pair of rovers linked to a lander can to serve as rover/lander/ ascent vehicle, and the specialized Eve lander.

-Slashy

[Munarware]

That is a way awesome base! I love your escape rocket and the rocket motors on your Gryphon rover, which I'm sure helps getting up steep grades.

[Munarware]

Slashy, I really like your lander rover! And that your hab modules are upright. Mine are actually sideways in the module designs I'm using, and to think that's the one thing that doesn't bother me. Habs look dense when they're placed but also want to see some corridors.

Also I like that both use solar/battery power which is something I've done instinctively. I just hate thermal generators and I don't use any except on one of my large transports where they can be placed far away from the pressurized section. It's not that the thought of frying my kerbals keeps me up at night, it's that it's almost kind of just like cheating. I know they use them in real life but still they are tacky and I hate them.

Edited August 23, 2014 by Munarware

[Munarware]

Here are a couple more shots of Mun rovers. Yes, I'm going to continue to tease with rovers that seemingly have nothing to do with a base, but the next preview post will basically be the key to everything so I'm not sorry. The first is the rear view of the MK2 LARPTD with its legs up in docking position. The rover can serve as a stable habitat in this configuration for long durations with an acceptable level of comfort and without getting those annoying little bumps in the wheels.

The second is actually another version of the LARPTD concept but with an MK1 can instead of the MK2. It has all of the same wonderful features of the MK2 version, but made for those who cook their dinners for one in a similar looking appliance. That said, the MK1 LARPTD has the same amount of solar panels and motors, larger battery capacity, and much less weight to push around, which implies that it should go farther, faster, and steeper on the slippery Mun surface than its MK2 brother could ever dream. I say "should", because as you see it isn't exactly on the Mun yet. So far, there has not been an urgent need for such an extreme performance extravagance, but one day very soon we will launch it just because we want to.

Edited August 23, 2014 by Munarware

[Jett_Quasar]

That is a way awesome base! I love your escape rocket and the rocket motors on your Gryphon rover, which I'm sure helps getting up steep grades.

Glad you like it. If you follow the link to the original post it shows how I did it. Eventually I'll include all the craft files, but for now I got up to the one with the curved passages... that's the one everyone seems to like the best.

JR

EDIT: Yeah the Gryphon rover, that one follows the old rule... "When in doubt add rockets!" You have to be careful with it though, it literally goes so fast it blows the wheels off!

Edited August 23, 2014 by Jolly_Roger

[Munarware]

Glad you like it. If you follow the link to the original post it shows how I did it. Eventually I'll include all the craft files, but for now I got up to the one with the curved passages... that's the one everyone seems to like the best.

JR

EDIT: Yeah the Gryphon rover, that one follows the old rule... "When in doubt add rockets!" You have to be careful with it though, it literally goes so fast it blows the wheels off!

I did follow the link and I read the whole post! Also sent ya some cred too I think, I dunno, I just barely figured out the quote thing so who knows actually, I hope it worked. Anyway, yeah I think those motors on your Gryphon are just the right scale to push that guy around in some of the toughest situations, but have you experimented with the thrust limiters to keep them more controllable in lesser extremes? I like your old rule and I would add to it that sometimes it does make sense to have a bigger engine with its thrust limited, than to go down to a smaller engine because in some cases you just need the extra power.

[Jett_Quasar]

Yeah I realized after the fact that you must have read my other post... and I got the rep+ thanks! I need to get back to base building and update that thread with more info, and new .craft files.

JR

Edited August 25, 2014 by Jolly_Roger

[Munarware]

It is the true fulcrum of our baseCITY system (Now you know what it's called!). And guess what, it's another rover! Not just any rover though, this is the Asymmetrical Docking and Relocation Rover (ADARR)! It is the epitome of our mission, which is not to preclude the initial conditions of this challenge, but is nonetheless extremely relevant: "To create a symmetrical, modular, interconnected, expandable and universally directional colonization system that is both dense and practical for long term settlement. The "baseCITY".

We could not have predicted all the challenges we might face, but we did know one thing from the beginning. And that was this: For the construction of a true city on the Mun which met all of our requirements, we would need a construction vehicle that was equally if not more flexible and dynamic than the end product we wished to produce. We would need the ability to relocate any module from any point on the surface to any other point on the surface in an efficient and precise manner. Enter the ADARR.

There are three ADARR units in this picture and we have a total of four on the Mun. Three would have been sufficient, six would allow you to move a very large section of multiple modules as a single unit. For balance during flight they are launched as pairs attached to the central node module of the system and the node can also be launched as a set of 3 balanced units when additional ADARR units are not needed, which is important because we are going to need like so many friggin nodes it's kind of ridiculous, but you really don't need very many of these ADARR bad boys to get the job done.

As you can see, on their own, they are top-heavy, narrow and practically useless at any speeds above 5 m/s on the Mun Surface. This is because the footprint of each rover must be kept to a minimum in order to avoid collisions with the legs we use as the anchoring foundation of our modules, and the real magic only starts to happen when they work together as in the picture below.

No, you're not going to see any of the modules yet, but this image is an excellent example of the sheer utility of the ADARR system. In this configuration the rovers gain a hugely forgiving level of stability and power. The combined unit is surprisingly responsive in all directions and allows a relatively high speed of around 15 m/s sustained on the Mun surface while maintaining complete control. Large batteries allow for a much further range than has been needed thus far, even during the long dark nights. While most modules have landed within 2 km of base center, the ADARR system could easily go 50 km or more and with the integrated solar panels range covers the entire MUN surface just as long as the daylight holds out.

Of course, the modules must be designed quite specifically and painstakingly to actually work with the ADARR system and vast amounts of time went into testing and proving that alignment and maneuvers involving multiple docking ports are not just possible, but easy. As you may have guessed, all modules are designed with docking ports in all directions, which means every module is capable of docking with at least 4 ADARR units. At the same time, all 4 of those ADARR units can be directionally aligned with one another, no matter which port size to which they need to attach, and just in case you were wondering, yes all of our modules incorporate both Sr. and regular sized docking ports. Some modules consist of multiple nodes which increases the number of ADARR units that can be attached, and ADARR units can be daisy chained together to create a cantilever effect so that the module can be held from a single direction and placed into a very tight spot. This utility in particular is what allows for modules to be placed into locations where they must dock on three sides simultaneously, leaving only one side for the attachment of ADARR units. Without this capability you can make bases shaped like plus signs, and you can even make checkerboard like structures, but you cannot make an unbroken, densely packed grid.

Version 2.0 is already in the works because if you look closely, you can see that we didn't really understand what an "inline clamp-o-tron" actually did when these were launched, and we sacrificed utility by failing to orient the shielded inline docking ports in any useful direction. We have also designed new modules since this release and will be incorporating features to support those modules that will be used in the final configuration of the system.

Stay tuned, it's about to get super awesome in here...

Edited August 26, 2014 by Munarware

[Munarware]

As a follow on to a previous comment which apparently no one is reading anyway, here is an upgraded ADARR dubbed "Entourage" compared to it's predecessor and a larger scale Phaze3 ADARR unit, the "Grande Fermamente"

Lower overall height, lower center of mass, improved weight balance (those inline clamps are heavy!), active RCS stability control, LF/O roll correction thrusters, ETG Power unit, 360 degree high powered lighting, improved docking capabilities. I can happily report that this ADARR unit is decidedly useful above 5 m/s and with the stability control and RCS activated, you really have to try hard to roll it over, but even if you do, you can just unroll it over with the new horizontal thrusters.

Where once was located perhaps the most useless solar panel ever, there are now perhaps the most useful inline clamp-o-tron ports in the history of the universe. The "Entourage" really outshines its predecessor.

True to form, here we have the inevitable big brother. The Grande Fermamente incorporates features of the ADARR system and takes them to another level, literally, level 2. It gains a dedicated SAS module, and is the first munarware rover to rely entirely on ETG power units. Batteries allow for longer bursts of speed, but are more of a functional "spacer" in this application. A third, even larger "TitanBul" concept is on the drawing board. There is, after all, a larger model of wheel not yet utilized. Also you can see here why the height clearance reduction was so crucial on the Entourage.

Edited August 28, 2014 by Munarware