[Stock] Gyroplane altitude challenge

[goduranus]

Been testing to see if I could make a stock vehicle that returns with a Jool "surface sample", and sought some community input through posting a challenge. Since all engines are very inefficient in the depths of Jool, I wanted a vehicle that can ascend without any engines.

The solution I came up with is to use slanted wing with reaction wheels like a helicopter rotor. But this challenge is open to any method of gaining altitude without engines, as long as all parts are stock. Engines can be equipped, but not activated. Autopilots is permitted, however.

Rules:

1 Scoring will be solely based on altitude achieved without activating any engines, measured in meters above sea level at Kerbin;

2 All attempts should start at runway or launch pad;

3 Driving or rolling your craft along the ground up a mountain doesn't count;

4 All parts except for autopilot modules must be stock, using 0.235-0.24 physics;(non-overpowered mods could be scored separately);

5 The craft should be able to carry at least one ton of payload(in the spirit of making a vehiclefor returning from Eve or Jool)

6 Due to the awesome power of infiniglide vehicles, submissions that rely solely on infinigliding would receive honorary mention only, so as to promote alternative methods of propulsion

My proof of concept attempt

(My thing was carrying the return vehicle)

Leaderboard

Stock:

1.MabDeno

2. DragonEG(12140 meters)

3. MarvinKitFox(11300 meters)

4. hoioh(10112 meters)

5. TheKutKu(4700 meters)

6. goduranus (637 meters)

Mods:

1. Master Tao (22223 meters)

2. DragonEG(18768 meters)

3.zipmafia(16981 meters) - Infernal Robotics

4.hoioh(16290 meters) - FAR

5.

Honorary mention:

Upsilon Aerospace - (Kerbin Escape) [strut with one wing]

goSlash27 - 30661 meters [infiniglider]

Zipmafia - Max Ascend Speed - 72.5 meters(75 was the absolute speed); Max G - 2.8; Max Altitude - 10787 meters

Edited August 19, 2014 by goduranus

[MarvinKitFox]

Welp, here is my attempt.

Meet the Death Blossom II

Stock .24, with MechJeb for information and some assistance with stability.

This baby starts of at 35RPM, climbing at a steady 4.8m/s

As the air rarefies, it becomes better, clocking a vertical speed of 23.4m/s at 76RPM, at 11.3 km altitude.

Unfortunately, from 8900m onwards it becomes increasingly unstabile, until at 11300 I simply cannot hold it oriented at all.

Attitude: 11300m, achieved in 17 minutes.

oops, see i put picture of the FlutterBy Mk III in the first picture.

This is a great-grandfather of the DeathBlossom II in the later pictures.

Seems I don't have any near-launchpad images of the DBII handy.

And just to show it's not a dilettante, here it is lifting some real mass.

Edited July 29, 2014 by MarvinKitFox
image discrepancy

[panzerknoef]

I have an infiniglider that can reach space somewhere, i'll post something when i dig it up

[BagelRabbit]

Hello. I am here to break this challenge.

Here, have a nice high-quality bug and a mind-bending glitch. The first one is capable of causing a wing to go into interplanetary space (though this video only shows it going up to the altitude of the Mun). The second one can result in a launch clamp leaving Kerbin's SOI at over 2 km/s. It is impressive stuff, and it's Danny2462-approved! (no, seriously.)

(I'm counting the second flight as my attempt here.)

So, counting the altitude of the wing-with-struts-attached, the altitude is about 6,743,000 meters (if I'm reading it correctly.) I'm not sure how to count the launch stability enhancer.

You may have to add a rule that the craft has to rotate to gain lift. I don't think that breaking the game is exactly what you had in mind when you wrote this challenge.

Edited July 29, 2014 by UpsilonAerospace

[r_rolo1]

UpsilonAerospace, thanks for the video. Now when I get a contract to test the launch clamp in a escape trajectory, I already know what to do

[goduranus]

Agh, you've broken the challenge Upsilon! Nice to see unintended things being made. I should probably change the rule to require a payload.

You will receive a honorary mention though, but not a challenge rank, cuz that probably won't work for a Jool science return mission.

@Marvin, one of the things to try in order to stay stable as you get higher, is to progressively turn off the reaction wheel so the spin speed stays low enough for you to correct it, you'll lose rate of climb though

Edited July 30, 2014 by goduranus

[TheKutKu]

Here is my attempt.

It is not as amazing as Marvin's gyroplane but it can go at 4700M.

it is VERY fast, it climbs at 20 M/S at sea level and 45 M/S at 4000M.

I'm sure i can improve it, by adding control surface and wings.

http://imgur.com/a/gtNrb#0

[sal_vager]

This looks like a lot of fun and I hope to see more entrants so I've stickied this for August goduranus

[TheKutKu]

After seeing Danny's latest video:

I had an idea: what if i make the helicopter spinning with the rcs engine?

Even if it isn't allowed by the rules, i post some pictures:

Note that there is only 40-50 engines and they are at 50% thrust

[goduranus]

Thanks for the sticky. Kutku, that things climbs fast.

[Redrobin]

Here I am, trying this in FAR. I'll see how high I get.

[goduranus]

Does the FAR pitch assistance keep the nose steady? That would solve the biggest problem with using this type of crafts.

[GoSlash27]

This is what I get for not reading the rules carefully...

... but it won't carry a ton, so back to the drawing board.

[Master Tao]

Does the FAR pitch assistance keep the nose steady?

FAR pitch assistance doesn't seem to keep anything steady, but I'll give it a try. I was playing around with this yesterday and got good results with FAR. The issue I'm running into is that stock SAS does a much better job of keeping the thing steady than MechJeb, and kOS really wasn't designed to maintain attitude and rotate at the same time.

[GoSlash27]

Alright, that's better.

infinilift.craft

The cockpit weighs a little over a ton and represents a 1 ton+ payload.

20,853 M, and I'm sure there's plenty of room for improvement with this approach. This is all 100% stock parts and installation.

-Slashy

Edited August 3, 2014 by GoSlash27

[GoSlash27]

This is with a max-effort zoom climb. Same craft. 30,661M. I'm sure that an ION engine would be able to push it into orbit from up there. Probably some other engine types as well.

[TheKutKu]

You broke the challenge, Slash.

[GoSlash27]

I cheated like crazy

I recommend using lifting surfaces for rotors instead of wings. They actually provide *negative* drag. And make them vertical instead of slightly-inclined.

Best,

-Slashy

[TheKutKu]

Yes, but now this is an infinglider.

I don't think goduranus made this challenge to see infiniglers.

But it fit in the rules.

[GoSlash27]

Yes, but now this is an infinglider.

I don't think goduranus made this challenge to see infiniglers.

But it fit in the rules.

'Zackly. Infinigliders aren't technically illegal, but I still consider them cheating. Still and all... we're talking about carrying a ton of payload as high as possible without expending any fuel, so the concept itself is a cheat.

I don't know how to make a kraken drive. I bet that'd get the job done handily!

[TheKutKu]

Kraken Drive don't work anymore, since v23.5.

Also, Gyroplanes are more epic than infinigliders

Edited August 4, 2014 by TheKutKu

[GoSlash27]

Kraken Drive don't work anymore, since v23.5.

Also, Gyroplanes are more epic than infinigliders

/me glances at leaderboard, eyes TheKutKu suspiciously...

teehee,

-Slashy

[goduranus]

Alright, that's better.

infinilift.craft

The cockpit weighs a little over a ton and represents a 1 ton+ payload.

20,853 M, and I'm sure there's plenty of room for improvement with this approach. This is all 100% stock parts and installation.

-Slashy

Is that the only stock wing piece that can still infiniglide? My previous infinigliders no longer work when a patch slow down the control surface movement, so I thought infiniglidering no longer worked.

I don't think Gyroplane is cheating though, most designs in game need to be powered by RTGs, and so they fall into the category of air-dependent nuclear propulsion. The near-infinite endurance of a Gyroplane in the atmosphere is not overpowered compared to other forms of nuclear jets. For example Project Pluto was expected to be able to stay airborne for months at a time.

I hope you could settle with you submission being in the honorary mention section? I suspect it works, and complies all the rules. But while infinigliding is already a well developed concept, including powerful designs such as yours may stagnate interest in the relatively uncommon gyroplane designs in the community.

Edited August 4, 2014 by goduranus

[GoSlash27]

Is that the only stock wing piece that can still infiniglide? My previous infinigliders no longer work when a patch slow down the control surface movement, so I thought infiniglidering no longer worked.

I don't think Gyroplane is cheating though, most designs need to be nuclear powered, and so they fall into the category of air-dependent nuclear propulsion. The near-infinite endurance of a Gyroplane in the atmosphere is not overpowered compared to other forms of nuclear jets. For example Project Pluto was expected to be able to stay airborne for months at a time.

Godranus,

No, all of the control surfaces still infiniglide. The small CS is just the most efficient at doing it. I can't comment on how they behaved before 23.5, since I wasn't playing KSP back then.

Best,

-Slashy

[GoSlash27]

I hope you could settle with you submission being in the honorary mention section? I suspect it works, and complies all the rules. But while infinigliding is already a well developed concept, including powerful designs such as yours may stagnate interest in the relatively uncommon gyroplane designs in the community.

Yeah, it's all good

-Slashy