[1.9-1.10] Hangar

[allista]

I've made a hotfix for the Recycler cost problem. It contains corrected part definition and .dll with fixed cost calculations in PartResizer.

https://github.com/allista/hangar/releases/download/v1.2.0/Hangar-v1.2.0-recycler-cost-fix.zip

Just don't want to confuse everyone with another release so soon, since this release is not totally backward compatible and hard to install.

[Starwaster]

Taniwa managed to get rid of the problem with competing versions of KAE from different mods, and since 1.7.0 update (if I remember correctly) the game chooses the single .dll with the latest version number and uses only it.

And it will be great if that works as intended, but remember that ModuleManager has a similar system since about 1.4.x, such that multiple MM dlls shouldn't be a problem, but it is, because several versions were released that didn't seem to respect the election process. Only with ModuleManager you can just remove all but the latest DLL from your GameData and you're fine.

I'd stay cautious with regards to KSPAPIExtensions and keep a weather eye out for future problems for a few version's worth for awhile.

[allista]

I'd stay cautious with regards to KSPAPIExtensions and keep a weather eye out for future problems for a few version's worth for awhile.

Indeed so.

[endl]

just wanted to share my latest lander, mine comes in at under 60t holds 6 rovers, yours comes in at 70 holds at most 2. its 500 parts though and you need KAS/robotics. guess im stuck with this until a better compromise is available

craft file

[allista]

just wanted to share my latest lander, mine comes in at under 60t holds 6 rovers, yours comes in at 70 holds at most 2. its 500 parts though and you need KAS/robotics. guess im stuck with this until a better compromise is available

Like I said: customized vs universal, fuel efficiency vs parts count, etc. Tradeoffs, tradeoffs...

*btw: do you differentiate between "vessel does not fit" and "there's no room" messages? The first means that the vessel, if launched from a hangar, would collide with it walls, and thus is not allowed to be stored. The second is self-explaining.

[endl]

thats my point though, where is the trade off, what do i gain by using the mod over making my own lander? im shipping more fuel, less payload vs more payload less fuel. fuel i dont need and shouldnt be the primary reason for using a hangar. what i need is clean packaging that cuts down my part count and allows me to balance my fuel through the rest of the staging. by forcing fuel into the payload itself it actually limits my options for smaller rockets.

its also a problem of geometry, (more instances of vessel does not fit) because the way its taking space through simulation makes no sense. if i combine the vtol and rover it wont fit, but if i make two separate vehicles it does when geometrically the combined vehicles take less space.

[allista]

thats my point though, where is the trade off, what do i gain by using the mod over making my own lander? im shipping more fuel, less payload vs more payload less fuel. fuel i dont need and shouldnt be the primary reason for using a hangar. what i need is clean packaging that cuts down my part count and allows me to balance my fuel through the rest of the staging. by forcing fuel into the payload itself it actually limits my options for smaller rockets.

its also a problem of geometry, (more instances of vessel does not fit) because the way its taking space through simulation makes no sense. if i combine the vtol and rover it wont fit, but if i make two separate vehicles it does when geometrically the combined vehicles take less space.

You gain a vessel with 500 less parts, yes?

And I don't see the problem with the fuel. Just dump it via tweakables in Editor.

Read the docs about what exactly "vessel fits a hangar" means. It's not enough for you to think that it should fit. The vessel must not collide with the hangar when it is launched in the position and orientation defined by the hangar. Use the "Show Directions" switch -- it helps to design vessels meant to be stored in hangars.

[EDIT] Oh, and it's going to be even harder to fit a vessel when I add the check for collisions with a hangar spaces of more complex geometry (like hexagonal one of the Inline Hangars).

Edited September 23, 2014 by allista

[endl]

[EDIT] Oh, and it's going to be even harder to fit a vessel when I add the check for collisions with a hangar spaces of more complex geometry (like hexagonal one of the Inline Hangars).

if you tie peoples hands when they are trying to create something they will become disinterested in your addon. you should be thinking how to enable your users not how to better "simulate" real world applications. kerbal is not supposed to be 100% accurate. if you think along such narrow lines you will fail to see other possibilities.

for example: 32tons, 325 parts 1.25 TWR 5 rovers

[madlemur]

Oh! Oh! I wanna quantum hangar, too!

A Bag Hangar of Holding!

Edited September 26, 2014 by madlemur
Emoticon snark...

[allista]

Oh! Oh! I wanna quantum hangar, too!

A Bag Hangar of Holding!

Yea! Realmgates and entanglement comms will save the world ==

[Starwaster]

Yea! Realmgates and entanglement comms will save the world ==

Are you mad?!?? Can you imagine if a small hangar stored inside a larger hangar? I've seen Doctor Who, these things aren't pretty!

[endl]

im not asking for "bigger on the inside" if thats what i was after i could have just used hyper edit.

im saying that my rovers arent too big in size but they wont fit in anything other then the largest container which without fuel weighs 20t for what is in the real world a fancy cardboard box. if the goal of the dev's rover bay is to fit 1 rover at a time its geometry management is poor and weighs too much. if its to be a multi rover bay its geometry management is still poor. the point i was trying to make is "if this is how you feel about it, lets see what i can do that comes close in payload" to be honest i think ive demonstrated clearly that theres no point in using the rover bay as it stands you can do so much moor just building it yourself. like i said in my last post if your going to make a tool make sure it enables the user not limits them. the current iteration can only fit the tiniest of rovers or nothing at all.

the launch mass of the Apollo lunar rover was over 51t you can deliver alot at that mass in ksp because its not 1:1 scale but the dev seems to be stubborn on this point.

Edited September 26, 2014 by endl

[madlemur]

I take that back. Not quantum hangars, but procedural hangars...

[endl]

I take that back. Not quantum hangars, but procedural hangars...

that wouldnt work for this mod because he is using a "loading" method (which is the source of the problem) instead of a "build around it" method but something like that would serve rover design much better. all a rover lander really needs is a ramp system everything else can be built around it.

[allista]

I take that back. Not quantum hangars, but procedural hangars...

I hope you'll take the implementation of THESE in you own hands

Or better, let's propose the work to endl!

[allista]

Are you mad?!?? Can you imagine if a big hangar stored inside a smalle hangar? I've seen Doctor Who, these things aren't pretty!

Well, If a big hangar is stored inside a small one, we either get a hole in the space-time continuum... or a TARDIS egg

Edited September 27, 2014 by allista

[zekew11]

How would one set up unity configs for one of these? I'd like to have a swing at modeling some.

[allista]

How would one set up unity configs for one of these? I'd like to have a swing at modeling some.

I strongly recommend to start with reading the hoojiwana's thread on modeling for KSP. It will save you much time and trouble! And be prepared: modeling for KSP is not an easy thing.

I myself use the standard Blender-Unity workflow as follows: model and texture in Blender and GIMP using its native frame of reference, then export to .fbx using 6.1 exporter (because it exports the Default Take baked animation) with Z Forward, Y Up axis settings (to maintain the correct in-game axis alignment). In Unity I have a standard project with Part Tools installed into the Assets and configured to the GameData folder of my test KSP installation with as little plugins as possible. I import the .fbx there, change the scale of the imported prefab to 1 (thus I have 1 blender unit to 1 in-game meter correspondence) and change rigging to Legacy (otherwise animations may go wrong). Then I usually create a new scene, add an empty GameObject, add PartTools component to it and the prefab. Now goes assignment of colliders, creation of lights and their animations (these are not imported from blender), changing shaders of materials to KSP ones (from Part Tools) and so on. In the end -- export to .mu format with PartTools component.

[zekew11]

I've created a few models for ksp previously; so I have a preliminary workflow. I was actually working towards a product similar to the current MKS (I called them land habs; the purpose being to add flexibility to the creation of low part count surface bases.), but I didn't have the coding skills or time to ever actualize a mod of that caliber. I was wondering specifically though how to set up a hanger in unity for use with the plugin; and what plugin limitations I should be keeping in mind while I develop concepts.

[spiritplumber]

This doesn't seem to work in 2.5, for what it's worth.

[allista]

I've created a few models for ksp previously; so I have a preliminary workflow. I was actually working towards a product similar to the current MKS (I called them land habs; the purpose being to add flexibility to the creation of low part count surface bases.), but I didn't have the coding skills or time to ever actualize a mod of that caliber. I was wondering specifically though how to set up a hanger in unity for use with the plugin; and what plugin limitations I should be keeping in mind while I develop concepts.

Sorry, didn't understand you the first time.

So, to setup a hunger, i.e. the model that may be used with the Hangar module, the model should have:

• Some hull with empty space inside, entrance and walls with colliders. This empty space is better be cube-shaped (computations are faster a little and the % of used volume displayed to the user is more meaningful), but may be of any convex shape.
  
• A convex mesh that more or less repeats the inside space -- the hangar-space. I usually just duplicate the inner walls of the hull model. The faces of this mesh should be inverted, looking inside it. And for now this mesh should not be animated in normal hangars, but I plan to support this in the future. In Unity you need to remove Mesh Renderer from this mesh.
  
• An empty transform located inside that mesh -- launch-transform. The location of this empty is the location of geometric center of a vessel that is launched from the hangar, so the best is to place it at the center of hangar-space. Its Y axis points in the direction where the nose of the vessel will be pointing and the Z axis is where vessel's belly will be.
  
• The trigger collider for the Hangar to sense a vessel. I usually add a small box collider (with Is Trigger set) inside the inner space, far from the entrance.
  
• The door with collider that closes the entrance, and an animation that somehow moves that door away.
  

To see an example, grab a model of simplest hangar and its Unity scene from my repo:

Ground Hangar model.

Unity scene with it.

There are also three corresponding materials and three textures with normal maps under Assets/Materials and Assets/Textures subfolders, but I think it should work without them.

[allista]

This doesn't seem to work in 2.5, for what it's worth.

In KSP 0.25 you mean? I'm working hard on the update. I hope today I will publish it.

[spiritplumber]

Wow, thanks! DIdn't expect a reply to be honest! I know there's been a lot of grumbling about mods not being udpated instantly, but thanks for being so responsive! Me and a couple of friends use your mod and bdarmory to do Newtonian Accurate Space Battles, it's a lifesave when it comes to frame rate if you have a carrier with 5 fighters in it.

[allista]

Wow, thanks! DIdn't expect a reply to be honest! I know there's been a lot of grumbling about mods not being udpated instantly, but thanks for being so responsive! Me and a couple of friends use your mod and bdarmory to do Newtonian Accurate Space Battles, it's a lifesave when it comes to frame rate if you have a carrier with 5 fighters in it.

Wow! Never thought of such a use case. That's awesome!

Once, long ago, when my PC didn't even have a 3D accelerator card yet, I myself tried to make a game from scratch (C++, SDL, raw OpenGL) with just the same concept. It was, of course, too much for one little me ==

[spiritplumber]

This is what it looks like stock.... we use your mod and BDArmory (and dark multiplayer). Should do some videos ourselves...

And this is what I do IRL. The 'bots was gifted to Squad once they finally implemented rovers, as promised.