Newbie suggestions. Interface, Science.

[Troblin]

Hello. I gamed this game for some time, got some insights and want to share them.

Did you read the forums much? No it spoils my 'fresh' opinion, I will however do that a lot right after this topic.

Did you at least read the 'do not write this' topic? Yes, that I did.

Some of what you mention is already in that topic - why did you mention it again? I think I'm giving a slightly different outlook over these subjects.

Some of these things are already in mods - why mention them here? I like mods but since career mode is a subject for some competition, I would like for mod content to be implemented into the maingame and its career balance to not keep asking myself "Am I cheating career?" after activating yet another mod.

Now to suggestions as brief as possible:

EVA activity combined with craft inventory - applying and/or removing spacecraft elements via EVA. Most basic would be fuel lines and connection struts after docking to make orbit assembled craft less wobbly.

Interface option to equalize the amount of liquid in two tanks. Maybe needing an extra module.

Structural capability to relink triple etc modules back into the triple etc adapter and or other symmetrical items like O shaped aircraft with a cargo hole in the middle.

Two of the above would benefit from ghost parts - i.e. virtual constructs that can only be occupied by their real counterparts for the sake of symmetry. That would allow to carry a spaceship from space to virtual construction dock, add ghost parts (with symmetry etc) then have kerbals on EVA replace these parts with their real counterparts from inventory - thus no need to implement any building tools into EVA - just fill the gap from inventory ability similar to repacking chutes. As for relinking triple and other items, it's just a case of different symmetry types and of the many ways to solve it is a ghost module similar to a subassembly, running extra checks on symmetry logic between its logical front side, back side and trying to apply middle module multiple times according to the symmetry.

Last is science - what noob would I be without mentioning that. First I thought of prototype system - I.e. any way of making it necessary to go to place X to be able to open a tech tree part Y. Then I thought of it to be too linear and came up with prototype to upgrade system. Starting with psychology of what it is now - early flights and career must be a challenge, yet providing a minor freedom of choice of development, then switching to near creative mode after exploring a couple of nearby planets. How could we tweak science so that it doesn't break early challenges and yet gives some incentive to experiment above and beyond? My answer was upgrade system. Each item in tech tree would have 3 upgrades of 3 tiers. first would be power/speed of work/durability depending on module, second would be isp/energy usage/drag and last would be price or weight. Each tier of upgrade would give a part a 5% in approppriate field. How to program - we have a table of science data from experiments of all types, filling the bar (getting most data) for certain experiment would make the game check another table whether that instance holds an upgrade for any modules. If yes - yay, +1 level of upgrades for new modules of this type (not retroactive). Table of upgrades could be either pre-written, random or semi random, i.e. aero related upgrades in atmospheres and/or 3 different levels of each 1 upgrade scattered between 'easy/close', 'avg' and 'hard/far' locations.

Pluses of my research suggestion - it does not mess up starting challenges too much because it takes much research for upgrades to really kick in. It does create at least a bit of an inspiration to do research trips after the tech tree is done with. It is not extremely hard to code most of it into existing structure as a side project.

Thanks for reading, that was a fresh opinion of a gamer who played for some time without toying with forums or mods too much, on things he'd like to see in unmodded game. That being said I already have mods to show center of RCS, docking port alignment and advanced navball and really think they make life more convenient, yet not too automated, which is what this post was about. Hope your time was not completely wasted. End.

[M3tal_Warrior]

Some of what you mention is already in that topic - why did you mention it again? I think I'm giving a slightly different outlook over these subjects.

Sure, but that's no reason to do a new thread. It's a forum, you are able to answer and share your thoughts in the aforementioned old thread. To make a new thread whenever you want to give a 'slightly different outlook' will just spam the first page, burying good old ones with fantastic discussions further down and splits the discussion, which is never a good idea.

EVA activity combined with craft inventory

Exact mention here:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/51831-How-to-make-Kerbals-awesomer?highlight=EVA+struts+place

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/67127-My-thoughts-and-Ideas-on-Kerbal-professions?highlight=EVA+struts+place

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/62506-Viewing-camera-Cargo-bay-EVA-reinforce-linkages?highlight=EVA+struts+place

I don't see why the craft inventory (which is a good idea) justifies for not posting in there instead.

Interface option to equalize the amount of liquid in two tanks. Maybe needing an extra module.

Exact suggestion:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/85367-Advanced-Fuel-Management-Parts?highlight=tank+fuel+transfer

Structural capability to relink triple etc modules back into the triple etc adapter and or other symmetrical items like O shaped aircraft with a cargo hole in the middle.

That works already? Just rotate the part.

Two of the above would benefit from ghost parts

I don't get that - would you care to clarify?

Last is science

Wow, there's quite a lot threads out there suggesting changes. I wrote a blog post about what I think is being realistic, dynamic and still easy for newbies (because it would've been too much for a thread answer), others had similar ideas or quite some different. There is everything, but no need of yet another thread.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to silence you down. Instead I'd like to read all good suggestions in places where there's quite an active discussion which might be enhanced by additional suggestions, and not them buried down somewhere where nobody can read the fantastic stuff written and all of them ideas are forgot.

Plus: Our mods will have less work with us.

Anyway: Welcome here!

[Sirrobert]

Now to suggestions as brief as possible:

EVA activity combined with craft inventory - applying and/or removing spacecraft elements via EVA. Most basic would be fuel lines and connection struts after docking to make orbit assembled craft less wobbly.

Interface option to equalize the amount of liquid in two tanks. Maybe needing an extra module.

So basicly stock function of KAS/TAC fuel balancer? I agree

Structural capability to relink triple etc modules back into the triple etc adapter and or other symmetrical items like O shaped aircraft with a cargo hole in the middle.

This one is tricky, because of the way KSP builds crafts.

Basicly, the way this works is like a tree. You start with 1 part, this is the root. And than you add new things to those parts, and those are branches, which can branch out themselves, ect ect. This system however does not allow for loops.

Now there are a few workarounds for this, but they are pritty convulted. For example, you could force a loop with docking ports (upon loading the rocket on the launchpad, the docking ports will connect, which creates a loop). But I don't think it's actually possible in stock to make this work properly (I could be wrong offcourse)

Two of the above would benefit from ghost parts - i.e. virtual constructs that can only be occupied by their real counterparts for the sake of symmetry. That would allow to carry a spaceship from space to virtual construction dock, add ghost parts (with symmetry etc) then have kerbals on EVA replace these parts with their real counterparts from inventory - thus no need to implement any building tools into EVA - just fill the gap from inventory ability similar to repacking chutes. As for relinking triple and other items, it's just a case of different symmetry types and of the many ways to solve it is a ghost module similar to a subassembly, running extra checks on symmetry logic between its logical front side, back side and trying to apply middle module multiple times according to the symmetry.

I don't really understand this part

Last is science - what noob would I be without mentioning that. First I thought of prototype system - I.e. any way of making it necessary to go to place X to be able to open a tech tree part Y. Then I thought of it to be too linear and came up with prototype to upgrade system. Starting with psychology of what it is now - early flights and career must be a challenge, yet providing a minor freedom of choice of development, then switching to near creative mode after exploring a couple of nearby planets. How could we tweak science so that it doesn't break early challenges and yet gives some incentive to experiment above and beyond? My answer was upgrade system. Each item in tech tree would have 3 upgrades of 3 tiers. first would be power/speed of work/durability depending on module, second would be isp/energy usage/drag and last would be price or weight. Each tier of upgrade would give a part a 5% in approppriate field. How to program - we have a table of science data from experiments of all types, filling the bar (getting most data) for certain experiment would make the game check another table whether that instance holds an upgrade for any modules. If yes - yay, +1 level of upgrades for new modules of this type (not retroactive). Table of upgrades could be either pre-written, random or semi random, i.e. aero related upgrades in atmospheres and/or 3 different levels of each 1 upgrade scattered between 'easy/close', 'avg' and 'hard/far' locations.

Pluses of my research suggestion - it does not mess up starting challenges too much because it takes much research for upgrades to really kick in. It does create at least a bit of an inspiration to do research trips after the tech tree is done with. It is not extremely hard to code most of it into existing structure as a side project.

Interesting. I do have a few points for this though. I don't think there should be requirements like 'go to place X to upgrade Y'.

The whole idea in KSP is that you can go wherever you want, including to get science (as soon as you unlocked the parts to go there). I don't think we should take that away. Though a base upgrade system wouldn't be to bad I think. Something to do with all that excess science

That works already? Just rotate the part.

No it doens't. You can't build loops when making crafts. You can't connect a 3 way adapter to 3 fuel tanks. It only connects to 1 off them

[Wanderfound]

This one is tricky, because of the way KSP builds crafts.

Basicly, the way this works is like a tree. You start with 1 part, this is the root. And than you add new things to those parts, and those are branches, which can branch out themselves, ect ect. This system however does not allow for loops.

Now there are a few workarounds for this, but they are pritty convulted. For example, you could force a loop with docking ports (upon loading the rocket on the launchpad, the docking ports will connect, which creates a loop). But I don't think it's actually possible in stock to make this work properly (I could be wrong offcourse)

It takes some trickery, but it can be done. Basically, you build 'em like a tuning fork and then tie the back together with struts.