Tips on SSTO's?

[flamango247]

So with the new credits (kerbucks anyone?) added, I can see sometime in the future of me maybe building SSTO's in the form of spaceplanes of course and as I'm no means an intermediate player (still working on interplanetary travel) this has been a challenge I've had for some time. So, are there any tips I can get on this? I plan on using them for deploy say com satellites since I use Remote Tech so I'd like it to be able to carry a bit of cargo so a plane that will just get me into orbit and back won't be enough. So please, let the tips flood

[UmbralRaptor]

(ram) Intake spam, and keep the TWR reasonably high (on the runway it should be ≥ 1). It's perfectly possible for turbojets to kick you into a 70-80 x 20-24 km orbit. With useful payload.

[Laie]

First, just build a plane. Any plane. See this guide for help: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/52080-Basic-Aircraft-Design-Explained-Simply-With-Pictures

Take off, turn around, try to land. See if you even like it.

Once you're capable of building a plane, making a spaceplane isn't all that difficult. I strongly suggest you start small, though: If you have a 500-part heavy-weight vessel, every new attempt will take a long time. And trust me, you will have to start over *a lot* before it finally works. You can save a lot of real-world time if you learn your lessons on a small and nimble plane before you try to scale up.

[flamango247]

I can build planes no problem, I personally think it's one of the most fun parts of the game. My PC isn't very strong so I can't build any 500 part behemoth, 100 parts is pretty much the limit for me so It'd have to be reasonably small. Thanks for the tips so far.

[Wanderfound]

There have been quite a few threads on this topic lately; there are plenty of dedicated spaceplaners here.

Have a read through these:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/89643-SSTO-question?p=1334110&viewfull=1#post1334110

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/89212-My-newbish-spaceplane-efforts-suggestions-for-improvement

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/89092-Kerbodyne-Scattershot-a-simple-and-easy-to-fly-beginner-s-SSTO-spaceplane

Your best bet is probably to start by building atmospheric planes, then move on to small spaceplanes, then on to something that can carry cargo. It's not too hard once you get the knack, but you do need to get some understanding of aerodynamics and supersonic piloting first.

Give it a go and hit the forums (with screenshots, preferably) once you run into problems. If you do it right, you don't need to rely on any air-hogging or part-clipping tricks, and you can make highly functional and economical spaceplanes that are fun to fly and look really cool.

You should also strongly consider installing FAR or NEAR if you haven't already. Spaceplanes are much more fun when they actually fly like planes.

[flamango247]

I've thought about installing FAR. Does it put much more stress on the system than stock KSP?

[Wanderfound]

I've thought about installing FAR. Does it put much more stress on the system than stock KSP?

Nope. It's one of the most stable and well-supported mods around. Ferram is a god.

[problemecium]

My tip is that it doesn't have to be a plane. I find it isn't hard to make a vertical-launch rocket into an SSTO. You just need enough fuel to keep the engine going the whole way without making it too heavy to lift off.

...and of course there's some rocket science in there, but that's the gist of it.

[flamango247]

I've watched some vids on the KSP god Scott Manley and he says that you shouldn't design an SSTO based on an atmospheric plane because they're meant to work in the atmosphere, not in the atmosphere and then into space. Soo, any tips other than building planes and then spaceplanes cause, honestly, that's what I've been trying to go from for a while now

[G'th]

Well what he meant (if I remember that particular video) was that you shouldn't worry about building the most capable flying machine, as flying in atmosphere will be a relatively small part of the spaceplane's job.

A spaceplane merely needs to be able to fly well enough to land after reentry (Which should be planed as such to put you as close to your chosen runway as possible) and be stable enough at high speeds when you need to pitch for that final burn out of the atmosphere. A spaceplane doesn't need to be all that maneuverable or even capable of long-term flight. Designing normal airplanes first will really only help you out as far as basic piloting and construction go. (so if you need help there, then yes, normal airplanes should be designed and flown first. And landed for that matter)

Good practice is to design a spaceplane similar to the space shuttle's Orbiter. One that can glide to landing rather than one that can do a powered landing. Not only will that make it so you don't have to revert if you run out of fuel during reentry, but you'll be able to trim a lot of excess weight that you'd otherwise use adding more control surfaces, fuel, etc etc.

So with that all in mind, presuming you get the basic idea behind your COM/COL relations, you'll want wings that are relatively stubby (IE, they don't stick out too far from the body, but so close that you dont' have room for your control surfaces) and are swept backwards (IE, the tips of the wings move backwards towards your engines rather than just sticking out to the sides). That will make for the simplest spaceplane wing design and presuming you end up with enough lift, it should fly perfectly well.

[DocMoriarty]

All my new space program is based on transport space planes. I even wrote a documentation about creating and operating them (see link in signature). The only thing I agree with Scott Manley here is that they are nowadays kinda unrealistic, technology isn't that far. But career mode and fun(ds) ...

Even made a classic 2(4)-engine transporter yesterday not using RAPIER's for a change, here on it's first empty test flight into orbit:

[Wanderfound]

I've watched some vids on the KSP god Scott Manley and he says that you shouldn't design an SSTO based on an atmospheric plane because they're meant to work in the atmosphere, not in the atmosphere and then into space. Soo, any tips other than building planes and then spaceplanes cause, honestly, that's what I've been trying to go from for a while now

Depends. If you're using stock aero, you can get any ridiculous thing into orbit. With FAR or NEAR, it generally helps to build something that looks like it could fly in the real world. For an example using Spaceplane Plus:

Or if you prefer stock parts:

And if you like vertical SSTOs:

You do need to think about how it will work in vacuum, but that doesn't mean it has to be ugly.

Edited August 12, 2014 by Wanderfound

[SkyRender]

Also useful: RAPIER engines are currently severely buffed. They already simplify spaceplane design significantly, but with their weight drop, you can pull off absurdities like this:

[Wanderfound]

Also useful: RAPIER engines are currently severely buffed. They already simplify spaceplane design significantly, but with their weight drop, you can pull off absurdities like this

Ferram has significantly debuffed the air-breathing engines, BTW. If you install FAR, turbojets and RAPIERs (when in atmosphere) will have about half the power they produce in stock. That's still plenty enough grunt to go to space, though.

I'm not sure if he nerfed them in NEAR as well, but I'd be surprised if he didn't. The more realistic drag model substantially benefits atmospheric flight speeds.

Edited August 12, 2014 by Wanderfound

[Wanderfound]

I've watched some vids on the KSP god Scott Manley and he says that you shouldn't design an SSTO based on an atmospheric plane because they're meant to work in the atmosphere, not in the atmosphere and then into space. Soo, any tips other than building planes and then spaceplanes cause, honestly, that's what I've been trying to go from for a while now

We can't give you any more specific advice unless you tell us exactly what's going wrong with your own designs. Preferably accompanied by top and side screenshots in the SPH with the CoM/CoL/CoT indicators on.

If you're completely stuck, download this one: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/89092-Kerbodyne-Scattershot-a-simple-and-easy-to-fly-beginner-s-SSTO-spaceplane

Take it for a spin, see how it flies, and then go back to the SPH and tear it apart so you can see how it was built.

[Hodo]

In short.

-Stock aerodynamics, with enough intakes you can send anything to orbit, including but not limited to asteroids, planetoids, small houses, whole bases, the death star (look it up no really), Space Battleship Yammato, and a space shuttle. Jet engines are overpowered in stock KSP.

Otherwise Wanderfound is dead on about his tips.

[Pecan]

My tip is that it doesn't have to be a plane. I find it isn't hard to make a vertical-launch rocket into an SSTO. You just need enough fuel to keep the engine going the whole way without making it too heavy to lift off.

...and of course there's some rocket science in there, but that's the gist of it.

This. SSTO rockets are easier and cheaper to build (fewer parts) and quicker to fly to space (rocket ascent profile) while being able to carry a wider range of payloads (available earlier in the tech-tree, scales-up better than wings). Practice landing back at KSP for almost all the money back.

[Wanderfound]

I've watched some vids on the KSP god Scott Manley and he says that you shouldn't design an SSTO based on an atmospheric plane because they're meant to work in the atmosphere, not in the atmosphere and then into space. Soo, any tips other than building planes and then spaceplanes cause, honestly, that's what I've been trying to go from for a while now

What he's getting at there is the people who try to build spaceplanes that look like a 747 or Learjet. Don't build something that looks like "a plane", build something that looks like a hypersonic spaceplane. Take your styling cues from the fast stuff: SR-71, MiG-25, Eurofighter Typhoon, Dassault Rafale, etc.

[SRV Ron]

My tip is that it doesn't have to be a plane. I find it isn't hard to make a vertical-launch rocket into an SSTO. You just need enough fuel to keep the engine going the whole way without making it too heavy to lift off.

...and of course there's some rocket science in there, but that's the gist of it.

While it can be a plane SSTO with Rapier, it is not necessary. Careful balancing and watching the flight profile can get you to nearly 2,400 m/sec and over 36,000 meters before burnout. A small burn with rockets and you are in orbit. The design below will place Jeb into a low Mun orbit and return.

The ejection burnout. Note altitude and speed.

Landing the turbo stage, however, is a pain due to a bug involving the fins and air scoops. Note the drift under drogues and long time under descent.

Once the main chute opens, landing is normal.